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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 04-03-2013, 02:18 AM   #26
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Well it is not ZEE up here.....it is Zed ...slash or no slash.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:51 AM   #27
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From Scott(fbodfather)
1. Now – on to the Z/28……..

I’ve said many times: “Wanna get a good fight going? Ask Camaro enthusiasts which is the ‘top’ Camaro – Z28 or SS………..”

-- and then put on a crash helmet and watch the fur fly……..

Everyone has their opinion and 90 percent have an opinion that THEY are correct in their beliefs and that those with a different opinion are completely wrong and perhaps motivated by the Devil himself……………….

The new Z/28 has blown some people away and we’re getting emails and letters and phone calls saying “THANK YOU! You FINALLY understand what a Z/28 really is after all these years of ruining the nameplate!.....”

It also has some people saying:

“You RUINED it! I can’t get *insert favorite option here* and so you are a bunch of…..*insert foul words here*….”

Or—

“ ……what do you MEAN it’s not a drag car???......”

Or---

“…..this car should come in at 40K!...” (even though we’ve not discussed price as of yet—and frankly, 40K is as attainable as me being elected as President of the United States……….)

(and for those who think the Z/28 should be 40K – take a 1LE and start counting the costs of all the awesomeness we’ve added to the Camaro in order to make it a true Z/28 – and then take into consideration the costs for engineering and validating – and then consider we have to ensure we don’t lose money on the program….)



Let’s take a walk down memory lane, shall we?

The ONLY reason for the original Z/28…

(note I once again used ‘Z/28’ and not ‘Z28)

….. was to go road racing. SCCA Trans Am racing had a rule that no competing car in the series could have an engine displacement larger than 305 cubic inches.

Our Camaro SS-396 was FAST…..but it wasn’t really a ‘track’ car. So the purpose of the Z/28 was to compete in Trans Am Racing – meaning it had to stick to the road like Velcro. Tidbit: None of the 602 1967 model year Camaros with option code Z28 had a nameplate that said Z/28 on them. It really wasn’t meant to be a main-stream entry.

As we moved into the 2nd gen years, the SCCA engine rule went by the wayside…….. And with increasingly stringent fuel and emissions standards, performance was on the wane……at a startling rate. Fast-rising insurance rates certainly didn’t help things…… And by the early 70s, there really wasn’t room for both a Camaro SS and a Z/28 as we knew them. By 1974, performance was so diminished that the Z/28 was dropped at the end of the model year because it had become to many of us a ‘caricature’ of what it once had been. The SS had been taken from the line up at the end of 1972…….

When the Z28 came back in 1977 (note the difference in the name…..there was no “/”….) it was definitely a road hugger – and it DID offer more performance than any other From then on – whether right or wrong, the Z28 was the ‘performance’ Camaro….until the IROC came along. The Z28 was then relegated to ‘2nd fiddle’ and that didn’t set well with Z/28 purists. But – on the other hand, the Camaro was the “International Race Of Champions” chosen brand – and one could go down to their Chevy Dealer and buy a new Camaro – an IROC Camaro – that sure looked a lot like the real race car.

…….And then Chevy pulled out of IROC racing -- and the Z28 was once again the ‘ultimate’ Camaro…that is, unless you ordered one with 1LE.

Fast forward once again to the advent of the 4th gen. We offered a Camaro Sport Coupe with a V6 engine – or a V-8 Camaro Z28 with an LT1 small-block with a ‘blistering’ 275 horsepower.
(to some of you young-uns – that was a LOT of horsepower in 1993….)

Yes – the Z28 was the ‘ultimate’ Camaro back then………and then Ed Hamburger at SLP Engineering came to us and said something along the lines of: “….Chevy -You’ve done a magnificent job with the Z28 – but I’ve got plans to take it to the next level…”

and we said “Sure!” …and the Camaro SS roared back to life. That also put the Z28 as ‘second-in-line’ and again, Camaro Z/28 purists were not happy! I very much remember getting several phone calls, letters, and emails that weren’t –shall we say – ‘charitable’ in their content…..

It all became moot when the Camaro went onto Hiatus in the late summer of 2002……..and I continued to say to you, our Camaro Enthuiasts – to “keep the faith…” - -that GM understood the importance of the Camaro nameplate. Yes, there were a few people within the corporation that proposed moving the name to the J-car platform.

(Blasephemy!)

(….they were last seen being shoved into a fleet of black suburbans – never to be seen again…….)

As John Heinricy said in a meeting that I attended: “The ugliest sight I can imagine would be tire smoke coming from the FRONT tires of a Camaro!..”)

As I’d said before, as Custodians of the Brand, it was crucial that we ensure that the 5th gen Camaro build upon it’s rich 35 year heritage. And yet, as I mentioned earlier in this article, we were questioned at every step of the way. And that’s not a bad thing, I suppose.

We felt so strongly about the heritage of Camaro and ensuring that the new Camaro would “check all the boxes” that were important to Camaro Enthusiasts - that we drafted the 15 members of the Camaro Enthusiast Advisory Board (better known as ‘The 12 Disciples of which there are 15’)

So—after all that: The 5th gen Camaro hit the streets and blew people away…..it’s still #1 in the segment – so I think the team did a pretty good job, don’t you agree?

At the same time, we’d been working on a Camaro that took performance way past our SS. It had been in the product plan for some time – but with the Housing Melt-down of the mid to late 2000s – and the resultant Bankruptcy of GM (and Chrysler and many vendors) the “HP” Camaro was put on ice. That the “HP” car was put back into the program was a miracle in and of itself. Interestingly, it was internally called the “HP” and kept top secret….. but the intended name was to be Z28. Talk about controversy. There were emails, letters, threats, banging-on-desks – and perhaps some thinly veiled threats made……and it was finally decided that the original Z/28 had a naturally aspirated V8 engine. The “HP” Camaro was to have a supercharged engine…….so perhaps the Z/28 moniker wasn’t really appropriate. Our President, Mr. Mark Reuss – himself a Camaro Enthusiast since the time he was able to recognize a Camaro – made the final call…..the “HP” would be christened “ZL1.” What you DON’T know is that he had another plan in mind for the Z/28.
(Note the “/”…..)

Volumes will be written about the 2014 Z/28 – but what’s important to understand is that while we made “Z28” enthusiasts happy over the years with 275hp – and then 285hp – and then an LS1 based Z28………we continually disappointed the “Z/28” purist.

The 2014 is dedicated to the “Z/28” purist. This is a track car that makes no excuses. That this car is a full three seconds faster on a track than the mighty ZL1 speaks volumes to its intent. Make no mistake – this isn’t a slap at the mightly ZL1. Far from it. If you want a car that blows other cars off a road course on Saturday and Sunday – and yet will get you to the office in comfort on Monday morning – the ZL1 is the car for you. If you want blistering track performance at a reasonable cost – the 1LE is prescribed. And – if you want to shame exotics on a road course – with an automobile that’s not meant for daily driving, then the Z/28 makes no apologies and may grab you by the collar – shake you silly -- and shout “LET’S GO MAKE HISTORY!”

So—that’s been a lot of words.

And that’s my take on why we’ve done what we’ve done.
I hate to question the FbodFather's knowledge of Camaro history, but the slash went AWOL on the emblems in 1970. I've owned a ton of early 2nd Gen Z28s and none of them had the slash. Maybe they were still referring to it as the Z/28, internally at GM, but they were marking them externally as Z28.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:58 AM   #28
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I hate to question the FbodFather's knowledge of Camaro history, but the slash went AWOL on the emblems in 1970. I've owned a ton of early 2nd Gen Z28s and none of them had the slash. Maybe they were still referring to it as the Z/28, internally at GM, but they were marking them externally as Z28.
....
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:40 PM   #29
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My 71 RS Z/28 that I bought new, has the slash. It has it in the grill, fenders, and the spoiler.
Interesting. I wonder if the Z/28 emblems on your car were dealer installed? Will you post an image of your Z/28 emblems?

The 1970 to 1973 Z28 emblems that I've seen on factory cars are of the style on the top, and the 1969 Z/28 style is on the bottom.

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Old 04-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #30
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^ that's true Bear, the one as shown in the top of the picture you posted was from 1970 through 1974 Z-28
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
Interesting. I wonder if the Z/28 emblems on your car were dealer installed? Will you post an image of your Z/28 emblems?

The 1970 to 1973 Z28 emblems that I've seen on factory cars are of the style on the top, and the 1969 Z/28 style is on the bottom
-
You are right. After I posted it I thought about it and remembered that a poster on the wall in my building has the slash, but my car doesn't.
The car came the right way, my parents bought it new for me (16th birthday and I still have it) and no dealer changed anything. Other than tires, wheels and headers it's just the way it was bought new and I have the stock stuff.
I pulled the post off right away but you were quicker than me. Haven't had the cover off any of my cars for a long time and was thinking it was different.
Thank you for setting me straight, I don't want to miss inform anyone.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
Interesting. I wonder if the Z/28 emblems on your car were dealer installed? Will you post an image of your Z/28 emblems?

The 1970 to 1973 Z28 emblems that I've seen on factory cars are of the style on the top, and the 1969 Z/28 style is on the bottom.

-
You would think after owning a car for 42 years I would remember what the emblems look like. Michigan winters suck, it's been so long since I pulled the covers of my cars I guess I don't remember what they look like.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:36 PM   #33
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Classicindustries.com is a great web-site for all the emblems...It will tell you what was on what year, model and what wasn't...and they have them for all Gens....
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:34 PM   #34
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You would think after owning a car for 42 years I would remember what the emblems look like. Michigan winters suck, it's been so long since I pulled the covers of my cars I guess I don't remember what they look like.
Memories do tend to get less reliable with time.

I remember several years ago I was driving on 880 and I was approaching an older Impala in the lane next to me. I looked at the tail lights and suddenly I couldn't tell if it was a 1969 or a 1970 Impala. After about 15 seconds I realized that it was a 1969 because I finally remembered that the 1970 tail lights were vertical. I remember thinking at that moment that in 1970 I would have been able to make that determination in no more than a few milliseconds. Even things that one thinks are clearly ingrained can become fuzzy with the passing a three or four decades.

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Old 04-04-2013, 10:08 PM   #35
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I pulled the post off right away but you were quicker than me.
So, that's why, when I went to reply to your post, it was gone.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:30 AM   #36
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Memories do tend to get less reliable with time.

I remember several years ago I was driving on 880 and I was approaching an older Impala in the lane next to me. I looked at the tail lights and suddenly I couldn't tell if it was a 1969 or a 1970 Impala. After about 15 seconds I realized that it was a 1969 because I finally remembered that the 1970 tail lights were vertical. I remember thinking at that moment that in 1970 I would have been able to make that determination in no more than a few milliseconds. Even things that one thinks are clearly ingrained can become fuzzy with the passing a three or four decades.

-
Sucks getting old. Guess I better go over today and take a look at it and refresh my memory.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:19 AM   #37
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There is a big difference between a Z with and without the slash.

The bottom line is you need to know the difference if you're talking to Camaro enthusiasts and purists, because they will most likely bite your head off if you refer to a 4th gen Z28 with a slash, or forget to type the slash when referring to a 1968-70, which the 2014 is descended from.

The 2014 is NOT descended from the 2nd - 4th gens that were Z28s. The IROC, the Z28 SS, the SLP engineering package..... all cars that were fast and handled well, but were not what the Z/28 was about. I think in a way GM understood that, hence the fact they kept the slash off for this long. When the 5th gen came back into production for 2010, the SS was used and any reference to any Z was kept on the back burner because GM knew how revered and hallowed the Z name is in Camaro history despite many calls to use the Z28 (for those uninformed newbies) and the Z/28 (for the hard core enthusiasts). They could have continued from the 4th gen and made the V8 model a Z if they wanted to, but that continues the dilution of the original Z, and also Chevy is intent on using "SS" in a more uniform manner, to designate all of their performance cars. So the decision was made to not use anything with a Z on it until a Camaro worthy of the original intent of the Z was designed. The hard core enthusiasts voices were heard...... if you haven't noticed, this 2014 Camaro Z/28 is NOT an "SS Z/28"..... it is a "Camaro Z/28", and that is how it will show on your insurance card.

The '68-70 and 2014 is a Z/28. Anything else is a Z28 and not the same. Just a name.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:17 PM   #38
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The '68-70 and 2014 is a Z/28. Anything else is a Z28 and not the same. Just a name.
Actually, the slash was not used on 1970 Z28s. The slash was used on 1968 and 1969 Z/28s, and now on 2014 Z/28s.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:50 PM   #39
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Z/28 = The Car made the name.

Z28 = The Name made the car.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:00 PM   #40
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yeah. i mean if you put a 70 1/2 on a road course with a 69, the 69 would just destroy it huh




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Old 04-05-2013, 04:04 PM   #41
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yeah. i mean if you put a 70 1/2 on a road course with a 69, the 69 would just destroy it huh




If you want to be nit-picky the 70-1/2 was a great car yes, but at that time Chevy had already bailed on the racing program.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:08 PM   #42
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how is that nit-picky?


we're talking about the street versions.
the first generation Z/28 was designed to get parts homologated for racing. namely the 302 engine. it was hardly a stripped down barely- legal -for the street car. the Rally Sport package was available, and even vinyl roofs!
the only difference between a Z/28, a Z28 or a Z-28 was the style of the badge.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:41 PM   #43
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the only difference between a Z/28, a Z28 or a Z-28 was the style of the badge.
I doubt that many would agree that the only difference between a 77 1/2 Z28 and a 1969 Z/28 is the style of the badge.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:52 PM   #44
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that's not the point. horsepower has gone up and down, yes, but to say the 1st gens were somehow 'race cars' or something is not correct.
i'd love to find some engineers from the time and ask them 'so you took the slash out of Z/28 in 1970, that was because the car was not all hardcore race car anymore?'
probably look at us like we were crazy.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #45
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I have studied this very carefully and I think the major difference between Z28 and Z/28 is the "/".


LMAO!!!
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:35 PM   #46
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how is that nit-picky?


we're talking about the street versions.
the first generation Z/28 was designed to get parts homologated for racing. namely the 302 engine. it was hardly a stripped down barely- legal -for the street car. the Rally Sport package was available, and even vinyl roofs!
the only difference between a Z/28, a Z28 or a Z-28 was the style of the badge.

Really??? Thanks for the education as I just fell off the turnip truck...


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that's not the point. horsepower has gone up and down, yes, but to say the 1st gens were somehow 'race cars' or something is not correct.
i'd love to find some engineers from the time and ask them 'so you took the slash out of Z/28 in 1970, that was because the car was not all hardcore race car anymore?'
probably look at us like we were crazy.
My point is/was they GM stopped racing after the first gen. The further development of the car was not due to racing it was to sell cars only.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:40 PM   #47
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that's not the point. horsepower has gone up and down, yes, but to say the 1st gens were somehow 'race cars' or something is not correct.
i'd love to find some engineers from the time and ask them 'so you took the slash out of Z/28 in 1970, that was because the car was not all hardcore race car anymore?'
probably look at us like we were crazy.
The first generation Z/28s were built to qualify for and compete in the SCCA Trans-Am racing series and they were very good at it, having won their class in both 1968 and 1969. The 302 engine in the first generation Z/28s was not a great street engine as it didn't have a lot of torque below 4,000 RPMs, but it's high revving capability and durability made it a really good engine for Trans-Am racing. The later Z28s came equipped with engines that made them much more street friendly vehicles, and were not built with concern with qualifying for Trans-Am racing. That is part of what separates the first generation Z/28s from the later versions.

Of course the slash has nothing to do with making the Z/28 a race car, but the slash over the years has become symbolic of the differences between the first generation Z/28s and the later versions.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:41 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by fastball View Post
There is a big difference between a Z with and without the slash.

The bottom line is you need to know the difference if you're talking to Camaro enthusiasts and purists, because they will most likely bite your head off if you refer to a 4th gen Z28 with a slash, or forget to type the slash when referring to a 1968-70, which the 2014 is descended from.

The 2014 is NOT descended from the 2nd - 4th gens that were Z28s. The IROC, the Z28 SS, the SLP engineering package..... all cars that were fast and handled well, but were not what the Z/28 was about. I think in a way GM understood that, hence the fact they kept the slash off for this long. When the 5th gen came back into production for 2010, the SS was used and any reference to any Z was kept on the back burner because GM knew how revered and hallowed the Z name is in Camaro history despite many calls to use the Z28 (for those uninformed newbies) and the Z/28 (for the hard core enthusiasts). They could have continued from the 4th gen and made the V8 model a Z if they wanted to, but that continues the dilution of the original Z, and also Chevy is intent on using "SS" in a more uniform manner, to designate all of their performance cars. So the decision was made to not use anything with a Z on it until a Camaro worthy of the original intent of the Z was designed. The hard core enthusiasts voices were heard...... if you haven't noticed, this 2014 Camaro Z/28 is NOT an "SS Z/28"..... it is a "Camaro Z/28", and that is how it will show on your insurance card.

The '68-70 and 2014 is a Z/28. Anything else is a Z28 and not the same. Just a name.
The 71 was just as much a Z28 as a 70. The 30 hp was really no big deal if you advanced your timing and ran premium gas. Every thing else was the same. Even the 72 still had the LT1.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:44 PM   #49
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Z28 = some badges, decals, maybe some spiffy wheels on a otherwise run of the mill V8 Camaro

Z/28 = A $100K race car that you will never own
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#5 - 2010 2SS/RS MN6 ABM #142-Silver Rallys-GFX / Med Titanium
My previous Camaros:
#4 - 1994 Z/28 6M Black over Arctic White / Graphite-Red Inserts - traded
#3 - 1981 Z/28 Bright Blue Metallic / Black - sold
#2 - 1970.5 RS Mulsanne Blue / Blue - endo crashed it and parted it out
#1 - 1967 RS Butternut Yellow w/ Black Bumblebee Stripe-RPO D91 / Parchment-Black - sold
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:57 PM   #50
nasty2ss
 
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Drives: 2010 camaro 2ss IOM
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: rochester ny
Posts: 749
I bought a brand new 1978 Z28 and it was no way a track car.My dad's caddy could kick my ass
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