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Old 03-31-2013, 01:20 AM   #171
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Thanks again for the insight Scott. Here are some of my thoughts.

Refresh. Very nice. To me the "controversial" taillights have both '69 and 2nd and 3rd gen styling cues (quarter panel wrap around), both of which I like. The front end is a home run.

Z/28. Baddest Camaro. Ever.

6th gen. I hope for you, your family and friends that you are either happily retired or heavily sedated when it comes out. GM just did an awesome job on both of the above (refresh and Z/28) and people are complaining like GM made the Camaro front wheel drive and electric. I don't understand why people enjoy being keyboard "warriors". Obviously I have zero insight into what the 6th gen will look like, but if these enhancements to the 5th gen have sparked such an uproar, I can only image the gnashing of teeth that will occur when the Camaro is revealed on an entirely new platform.

I say job well done to you, the engineers and designers.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:23 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post



I will admit that when I first saw the refresh I wasn't a fan. I have been staring at pics of the fifth gen almost every day since its release and to me the styling wasn't stale. I was pretty upset when those less than stellar pics were shown from the Kelly and Michael show. I am very resistant to change but in a period of a few days the new style has not only grown on me but grabbed my attention enough to push me towards a 2014 Purchase over a 2013. (Seeing the new Z/28 had a lot to do with those new feelings. ) Thanks Scott and the Camaro team for working so hard and offering so many different choices for Camaro fans.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:30 AM   #173
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I seriously doubt it. Start one and see. I know they like the new Z/28 because it is the "Z/28" they have been begging for. It isn't a daily driver and only a very small percent of the people will buy it. It is just the thought that it is available if they so desired to buy it. And it will kick Mustang's butt too.

I would just like to buy an SS with the Z/28 option (engine). How cool would that be? My original 1973 Camaro was an LT with the Z28 option. It had no badges. So to the average on looker all they could see was the wheels and spoiler. No stripes. It was a sleeper until I got on it. I loved it.
Here you go I started a new pole.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286190
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:38 AM   #174
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F-bod Father:

Thank you Thank you Thank You
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:14 AM   #175
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I'm a manufacturing ops guy turned enterprise software guy so what the heck do I know about mass consumer product marketing let alone automobiles. Nonetheless this productline seems to have too many model. Maybe chevy is trying to attract multiple market segments.

Quote:
>323 horsepower LS and LT

>400 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS/1LE

>580 horsepower ZL1

And the new Camaro Z/28…….
I doubt you can share the numbers but what is the unit distribution between all these models? If the 1LE is expected to be a 2% car would it be logical to assume the ZL1 is about the same expected volume or less? I guess dealers pre order zl1s but not 1le's so maybe the zl1 volume is higher. And if the Z/28 is going to be about the price of the ZL1, if not higher, how many units are expected in 2014?

Actually, it'd be really interesting if you could disclose your buyer personas for each segment/model; I realize th numbers are probably private but the persona seem like something that could be shared. ??? :-)

But maybe this model proloferation is strategic. Heck. I came back to Chevy from Audi because of the 1LE. And now you have me craving the notion of the real Z/28 though I don't have the dough nor a garage to keep it ...
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:17 AM   #176
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Scott, thanks for the great write-up. I like the new models. It's good to hear the background story on the Camaros. Sign me up.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:27 AM   #177
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...The 2014 is dedicated to the “Z/28” purist. This is a track car that makes no excuses. That this car is a full three seconds faster on a track than the mighty ZL1 speaks volumes to its intent. Make no mistake – this isn’t a slap at the mightly ZL1. Far from it. If you want a car that blows other cars off a road course on Saturday and Sunday – and yet will get you to the office in comfort on Monday morning – the ZL1 is the car for you. If you want blistering track performance at a reasonable cost – the 1LE is prescribed. And – if you want to shame exotics on a road course – with an automobile that’s not meant for daily driving, then the Z/28 makes no apologies and may grab you by the collar – shake you silly -- and shout “LET’S GO MAKE HISTORY!”...
This paragraph is what I felt when I got home from work and watched the reveal. This paragraph is why, the next morning, I was on the phone to my dealer placing a "provisional order" for the new Z/28. This paragraph is why a single version of a single car has shown me that there is a core group of die-hards at GM who truly do get it. Congratulations for doing the original proud -- and for not compromising on your vision!

[PS: Could you please tell us on which track the Z/28 was 3 seconds per lap faster than the ZL1? Since I'll be tracking the *$%#*@ out of mine, I'd really like to know. Sorry to interrupt the positive vibe... ;-) ]
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:37 AM   #178
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Scott, thank you for that and I sincerely thank you, and everyone involved, for these great cars. You may not remember me, but I was one of the guys waiting for my car to get out of Area51 and the privilege of me being able to communicate with you made the agonizing wait well worth it!

I fully understand why these great Camaros were built in this way and am backing you and all of GM in everything that is done. After all, it's being done for us...the Camaro enthusiast!

I know you all let all the miserable comments run off your shoulders like water off a ducks back, but you will always have a follower in me!

Thanks for being there when I was in Area51 and thanks for these awesome cars!
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:50 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat View Post
I'm a manufacturing ops guy turned enterprise software guy so what the heck do I know about mass consumer product marketing let alone automobiles. Nonetheless this productline seems to have too many model. Maybe chevy is trying to attract multiple market segments.



I doubt you can share the numbers but what is the unit distribution between all these models? If the 1LE is expected to be a 2% car would it be logical to assume the ZL1 is about the same expected volume or less? I guess dealers pre order zl1s but not 1le's so maybe the zl1 volume is higher. And if the Z/28 is going to be about the price of the ZL1, if not higher, how many units are expected in 2014?

Actually, it'd be really interesting if you could disclose your buyer personas for each segment/model; I realize th numbers are probably private but the persona seem like something that could be shared. ??? :-)

But maybe this model proloferation is strategic. Heck. I came back to Chevy from Audi because of the 1LE. And now you have me craving the notion of the real Z/28 though I don't have the dough nor a garage to keep it ...
Well seeing that they've produced over 6000 ZL1's, I would estimate less than 1000 for the SS with the 1LE option. So that should put the ZL1's close to the 10% range.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:04 AM   #180
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Thank you Scott and the entire team for making the Camaro in the first place. I can only imagine the blood, sweat and tears behind the scenes that goes into the finished product that we get to drive.

There are some things I would like to request though about this new revision. The front is okay; I think the upper grille is too small, the lower too big but I know you guys made these changes with wind tunnel testing. Is the upper front that narrow because of allowing too much air at high (150+) speeds? It looks like the lower grille is blocked off at the top so it could be reduced in height to match the fog light cutouts. The entire group of grilles/cutouts just looks slightly mis-matched to me, but maybe there was a wind tunnel reason for that.

The rear of the car is the area that needs the most revision. It's okay as far as it goes... if it was on the back of an ordinary sedan. But it's on the most exciting muscle car in the industry. It's just too plain and boring. I understand the rationale behind the style of the lenses and they're pretty nice looking but making them wrap around the sides was a mistake.

Here's what I think would look better. Instead of this:

Name:  2014-Chevrolet-CamaroSS-011[1].jpg
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Size:  149.2 KB

maybe something like this instead:

Name:  2014-Chevrolet-CamaroSS-011[2]a.jpg
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Size:  140.5 KB

The 69 Camaro (as well as all those glory year Camaros) had a distinctive, tied-together back between the tail lights. I would make the lenses not as wide, sink them back in further so they're more recessed, and put a slight recess into the area between the two sides so it creates that "tied-together" look the 67-70 Camaros had. This also somewhat mimics the narrow front grille area so it's consistent style-wise.

The vertical part of the bottom area looks like it came from an SUV. Too plain down there. It needs something to break up all that plain smooth plastic.

For the Z/28 add the 4 minor gauges in the vertical area above the center dash vents. Oil temp for engine, trans and diff would be very useful. It would be nice if there was a track accessory option that would include removable tow hooks, fire extinguisher and a mounting bar with 5-point harnesses.

You guys MUST make that gorgeous frost satin white color available for the Z/28!!! That same type finish should be used on all the colors on the Z/28 to make it really stand out. A frost satin bright Sunoco-orangish-yellow, a frost satin bright butterscotch orange, a rich frost satin Le Mans blue, a frost satin silver, a frost satin deep red, a frost satin slate black and the frost satin white would look absolutely killer on the Z/28 and make it stand out like no other on the road or track.

These are just my ideas and thanks again for all the hours and hard work you guys put into these wonderful machines!
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:10 AM   #181
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i agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrillz View Post
Here is one of the polls on this site that's telling you how the people here feel about the new change's. Do you not find this alarming with this kind of negative feedback from the enthusiasts?
Attachment 491683
I am not big on tweeking actual information or relative facts, but when you refer to "most camaro enthusiasts" and we are seeing starting numbers in polls,posts,opinion sites,etc I tend to listen to the people as they also are camaro enthusiasts. and I agree with this qouted poster.

I also am not into kissing butt and there should be a whole server dedicated to that just for this thread by the previous posts. Obviously those who disagree with the changes and have some not favorable opinions did not all post in this thread, however our opinions are also as "Real" as other camaro fans. I had a 240sx in front of me the other day and I noticed some similarities and have looked up preludes as well and remember, those cars are not exactly styled for the future being they are 10+ years old, so no I am not a fan of the tails either, or tiny grates on the hood which look lost to me.

I will say thank you for your post that started this thread from coming from your prospective of you represent GM's camaro team, but this is your personal opinion stance which did seem personal and was more like a rant or scolding then an educational post(just my opinion) maybe because you work there but was surprising, others will have opinions, we are the ones that keep the company going by our loyalty and contributions but should not be scolded for having negative opinions, that i dont agree with. my .02 from an actual "enthusiast".
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:54 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by AzItaliaSS View Post
I am not big on tweeking actual information or relative facts, but when you refer to "most camaro enthusiasts" and we are seeing starting numbers in polls,posts,opinion sites,etc I tend to listen to the people as they also are camaro enthusiasts. and I agree with this qouted poster.

I also am not into kissing butt and there should be a whole server dedicated to that just for this thread by the previous posts. Obviously those who disagree with the changes and have some not favorable opinions did not all post in this thread, however our opinions are also as "Real" as other camaro fans. I had a 240sx in front of me the other day and I noticed some similarities and have looked up preludes as well and remember, those cars are not exactly styled for the future being they are 10+ years old, so no I am not a fan of the tails either, or tiny grates on the hood which look lost to me.

I will say thank you for your post that started this thread from coming from your prospective of you represent GM's camaro team, but this is your personal opinion stance which did seem personal and was more like a rant or scolding then an educational post(just my opinion) maybe because you work there but was surprising, others will have opinions, we are the ones that keep the company going by our loyalty and contributions but should not be scolded for having negative opinions, that i dont agree with. my .02 from an actual "enthusiast".
If you felt like you were being scolded, then is there an element of guilt on your part? You and others can have your opinion and he can as well. I'm not speaking for him, and I don't kiss anybody's ass, but what he speaks about is from over 40 years of serving and supporting a long list of brands from GM, mostly Camaro's.

Why would he not have the best interest of "enthusiast's" at heart? This man work's tirelessly for "us". I can understand your point of view and some of the other's that have voiced their opinion about their fear of the Camaro brand being "watered down" again, but c'mon people have some patience and some faith. We've (the Camaro) been the best selling brand 3 years in a row. Does that not mean anything?

What if sales are better this coming year than the last year, how are you going to feel like then? I have a pretty good idea. And guess what, if sales take a dip, they are pretty smart enough to make changes necessary to get back to achieve whatever goals that they set. So, do you want to be on the negative nelly ride, or would you rather enjoy a great time to be an enthusiast? Your choice
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:55 AM   #183
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I know you can't please everyone, but damn, I don't like any of the changes for 2014. I really wish I did.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:01 AM   #184
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I know you can't please everyone, but damn, I don't like any of the changes for 2014. I really wish I did.
That's cool, you said it respectfully and with class.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:09 AM   #185
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Let me introduce the family……….

>323 horsepower LS and LT

>400 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS/1LE

>580 horsepower ZL1

And the new Camaro Z/28…….
There you have it... A COMPLETE 5thGen family.

From day one we all wanted and waited for a Z/28 and in the process we got 2 models that everyone forgot about... the 1LE & ZL1. (and a bunch of cool special editions too) Pretty sure anyone looking to buy a Camaro can find something in this lineup that fits. The Z/28 with an naturally aspirated LS7 simply puts the stamp on a great Camaro comeback.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but looking back on this evolution all I can say THANK YOU GM and deciples... you listened to the majority, held true to the name and nailed it. I seriously don't think you could have done it better (even if I was a deciple..) Guarantee I'd have more hair if I knew what the plan was all along though.

Now to decide if a Z/28 will be right for me.

How bout a special edition ZL1 with LS9 before we move on to the 6th Gen... (yeah us Camaro enthusiasts are never satisfied LOL)
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:19 AM   #186
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How bout a special edition ZL1 with LS9 before we move on to the 6th Gen... (yeah us Camaro enthusiasts are never satisfied LOL)


I'd never be able to afford it, but I'd sure enjoy watching videos of it.
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:08 AM   #187
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A percentage of Camaro fans will just have to wait and hope there are improvements on gen 6. I thought the mailslot was distinctive on the gen 5 SS. It's the first thing I notice on the road. I don't recall reading that folks were asking for an extractor so that change came out of left field, to me anyway. I could understand if that were optional. Maybe the tail lights will grow on me in time, the wraparound just looks a little out of place. The Z/28 was turned from a car you could drive on the road, to a novelty. Sure, you have bragging rights on the track over anything Ford can throw in there. I'm sure a few people will pay to enjoy it a few times a year. I expect that the sales numbers will tell the tale.
These forums are here for fans to express their opinions, good & bad. We wouldn't all be here if we didn't like that car. Some people on here have an extremely immature attitude though. "If YOU DON"T LOVE EVERY CHANGE TO THE CAMARO YOU'RE JUST WRONG!"
That's a bit silly. Take the good with the bad, everyone else has to.
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