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Old 04-01-2013, 07:49 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
Inspired is not exactly like....3 sections with reverse light in the middle...
How about these then?
I just feel the only cue they took was the centralized backup light within the middle of the assembly. Other than that its mostly its own out of place design. They could have easily cupped the sides like was posted in a photoshop a few pages back and fixed the whole issue but whatever, it is what it is. Not quite a prelude however. Its more like a giant cross generation mashup. And to me, it looks kinda tacky. Purely due to the way it wraps around the side.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:51 PM   #327
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What I don't understand is how people who hated the tail lights and then said "saw them in person" and now suddenly they are ok? I say if you see them in print and they are ugly then they are ugly in real life too.
Also, ANYTHING you have to get used to, you never liked in the first place. There is something to be said by first impressions. I just hope this whole "euro look" is not the direction that the next gen is heading or Camaro is in trouble.
You do realize the 1970 1/2 Camaro was praised for its European styling...

So once you make up your mind about something you have just seen pictures of you have never changed it when you got up close and saw the details lost in a 2 dimensional picture? Heck I have seen cars I liked in pictures but hated when I saw the real thing...
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:54 PM   #328
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A-Bird...a pic of '67 Impala t-lites would be cool...I see those in the '14...lol...I like 'em...
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:04 PM   #329
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A-Bird...a pic of '67 Impala t-lites would be cool...I see those in the '14...lol...I like 'em...
Like this?
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:13 PM   #330
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Yuup...lol....Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...What makes something a work of art? You look at it, and can't help but look again...
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:25 PM   #331
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You do realize the 1970 1/2 Camaro was praised for its European styling...

So once you make up your mind about something you have just seen pictures of you have never changed it when you got up close and saw the details lost in a 2 dimensional picture? Heck I have seen cars I liked in pictures but hated when I saw the real thing...
Let me ask you a question, since it seems you are defending these lights tooth and nail. Can you honestly say you like them better than out tail lights, or are you settling for them because there's nothing else you can do?
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:39 PM   #332
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Let me ask you a question, since it seems you are defending these lights tooth and nail. Can you honestly say you like them better than out tail lights, or are you settling for them because there's nothing else you can do?
I have posted before that I understand what they were trying to accomplish with the change in tail light design, I can see the 69 influence in the non RS lights, but to say I like or dislike them more than what my car has I cannot say... I like them in the pictures I have seen but also to qualify it I like the standard lights and could do without the LEDs. I am not judging them against what we have now, I am judging them on their own merits. They are different and should be judged differently. If that makes any sense... Maybe when I see them both in real life 3D, I could change my opinion... I have before... In fact when I first saw the 2006 concept I thought the rear was too plain, not enough character...but by the time I saw the production version I liked it...
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:18 PM   #333
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Man did you go back for me.....
The IROC Z vs the 5.0 during the 80's......

Before that my daddy's Z/28 strictly monster for the track......
He had a MEAN Firebird as well with the blower......

Now it's my dilemma how to I do this....... Hmmmmmmm?

I kind of like having the paddles of the SS but it would be nice to have the fastest paddles which would be the ZL1......

However, this is a GREAT car so I could pay it off and just get a Z/28 for the weekend..... I could nickname it Micheal the Avenging Angel......

At least I have a year to get it done.....
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:25 PM   #334
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What I don't understand is how people who hated the tail lights and then said "saw them in person" and now suddenly they are ok? I say if you see them in print and they are ugly then they are ugly in real life too.
Also, ANYTHING you have to get used to, you never liked in the first place. There is something to be said by first impressions. I just hope this whole "euro look" is not the direction that the next gen is heading or Camaro is in trouble.
Well said! Anyone can get used to something if they don't have any other choices. Like cold showers if there is no hot water. The alternative is to be filthy and not take a shower at all. Get used to it! Ha ha. That Angry Bird is a trip! He spends his whole life on the computer and gets upset if someone don't agree with him.

Thanks for your comments!
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:32 PM   #335
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[QUOTE=Angrybird 12;6369006]You do realize the 1970 1/2 Camaro was praised for its European styling...


NOT! maybe in your little bird world! We didn't get to Euro styling until the mid 80's when we were bombarded with cheap imports. GM's designers decided to join them rather than try to keep our original American designs. They thought that is what people wanted. It ruined the look of most American cars for a long time. I know...I was there dude.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:44 PM   #336
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Well said! Anyone can get used to something if they don't have any other choices. Like cold showers if there is no hot water. The alternative is to be filthy and not take a shower at all. Get used to it! Ha ha. That Angry Bird is a trip! He spends his whole life on the computer and gets upset if someone don't agree with him.

Thanks for your comments!
You haven't seen me upset.....
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:48 PM   #337
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=Angrybird 12;636900You do realize the 1970 1/2 Camaro was praised for its European styling...


NOT! maybe in your little bird world! We didn't get to Euro styling until the mid 80's when we were bombarded with cheap imports. GM's designers decided to join them rather than try to keep our original American designs. They thought that is what people wanted. It ruined the look of most American cars for a long time. I know...I was there dude.
You don't have to take my word for it take GM's

From the GM heritage center website.
http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/...Camaro_History
SECOND GENERATION 1970-1981

1970

The second generation Camaro was introduced to the public in the spring of 1970 -- along with a slightly revised corvette. While it shared the “semi-unitized” body concept with the first generation car, virtually every part was new. The new body had a definite European influence. Front end treatments were distinctively different based on whether or not the Rally Sport package was ordered. Because SCCA Trans-Am rules changed and allowed “destroking” larger engines, the new Camaro Z-28 came with a 350ci engine developing 360 horsepower. The ultimate SS Camaro offered an optional 396ci engine with 375hp. The convertible was dropped for the second generation.
Due to a short model year, only 124,901 1970 Camaros were produced.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:04 PM   #338
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[QUOTE=Angrybird 12;6369611]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21 View Post

From the GM heritage center website.
http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/...Camaro_History
SECOND GENERATION 1970-1981

1970

The second generation Camaro was introduced to the public in the spring of 1970 -- along with a slightly revised corvette. While it shared the “semi-unitized” body concept with the first generation car, virtually every part was new. The new body had a definite European influence. Front end treatments were distinctively different based on whether or not the Rally Sport package was ordered. Because SCCA Trans-Am rules changed and allowed “destroking” larger engines, the new Camaro Z-28 came with a 350ci engine developing 360 horsepower. The ultimate SS Camaro offered an optional 396ci engine with 375hp. The convertible was dropped for the second generation.
Due to a short model year, only 124,901 1970 Camaros were produced.
LOL Please tell me...what car (European) did they get the design Qs from??? Who ever wrote that article is full of you know what. I like how they are rewriting history to make a story. (not saying you did) You are an innocent bystander in this and honestly came across this article and you think it is gospel. The guy that wrote this was a young kid back then and his dad had a Chevy dealership. That makes him an expert!??? Ha Ha Ha. I was an engineer for GM and personally know the history of the Camaro. It was my first Factory car I ever bought. 1973! It was NOT influenced at all from Europe. This guy is hilarious! The article is not at all factual however.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you read it. I am not knocking you. You have to put things into prospective and look who is writing the articles that you quote though.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:19 PM   #339
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LOL Please tell me...what car (European) did they get the design Qs from??? Who ever wrote that article is full of you know what. I like how they are rewriting history to make a story. (not saying you did) You are an innocent bystander in this and honestly came across this article and you think it is gospel. The guy that wrote this was a young kid back then and his dad had a Chevy dealership. That makes him an expert!??? Ha Ha Ha. I was an engineer for GM and personally know the history of the Camaro. It was my first Factory car I ever bought. 1973! It was NOT influenced at all from Europe. This guy is hilarious! The article is not at all factual however.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you read it. I am not knocking you. You have to put things into prospective and look who is writing the articles that you quote though.
Wow I find something I have known since 1970 to be true and you want to even discount what GM themselves say....

Try this...
http://www.che265.com/camaro2nd.html
Introduced to market in February 1970, the second-generation Chevrolet Camaro would be in production 12 years. When the second-generation Camaro finally did appear, it made a tremendous splash. It was one of the most radical-looking new designs the industry had seen since the excesses of 1959. Unlike the Mustang, whose successive revamps from 1964 to 1973 represented a steady evolution of the original concept, the new Camaro was an almost complete stylistic break with its predecessor. The first Camaro, as we have previously seen, evolved from the "Super Nova" concept car of the early sixties. It essentially married the stylistic philosophy of the second-generation Chevrolet Corvair (1965-1969) with the short-deck, long-hood proportions popularized by the Mustang; park a '67 Camaro next to a post-'65 Corvair, and the family resemblance of their basic body shapes is readily apparent. The new Camaro looked more like something from Italy than Detroit. It featured a curvaceous nose and gaping grille that recalled early-sixties Ferrari or Maserati GT cars, particularly on Rally Sport models, which had no bumper ahead of their grille openings.

And this
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/camaro/history.html

Second Generation (1970½-1981)

Though it didn't make it to market until February of 1970, the second-generation 1970½ Camaro would be in production 12 years. The second-generation Camaro's styling was inspired by Ferrari and was also bigger, heavier and no longer available as a convertible. And as the 1970s progressed, it would grow less powerful, succumbing to the pressures of tightening emissions regulations and a fuel crisis.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:22 PM   #340
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Just read your long response. Yes, the '14 Z/28 was not exactly what I was expecting, but that's not to say that is a bad thing. I love what you and your team have created; and continue to impress in this day with so many regulations. You've gone back to the roots of the Camaro and have let us have modern day versions of them. It's truly amazing what you have accomplished thus far.

Keep up the great work!
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:32 PM   #341
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Wow I find something I have known since 1970 to be true and you want to even discount what GM themselves say....

Try this...
http://www.che265.com/camaro2nd.html
The new Camaro looked more like something from Italy than Detroit. It featured a curvaceous nose and gaping grille that recalled early-sixties Ferrari or Maserati GT cars, particularly on Rally Sport models, which had no bumper ahead of their grille openings.[/B]
Actually both of these articles you offer as proof sound like opinion. Kind like me saying the new tail lights suck. If it were factual joe designer would say I designed the Camaro after ...Blah,blah,blah.
Just one more writers opinion.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:26 PM   #342
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LOL Please tell me...what car (European) did they get the design Qs from??? Who ever wrote that article is full of you know what.
Have you ever seen a 50's to 60's Italian or British sports car? It should be fairly obvious really.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:06 AM   #343
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That was all well put, and I loooooove camaro's, but let me get this straight. Your going to give us a stripped down SHELL, with a big motor thats STILL 80HP less than a ZL1 and still charge us 50-60K for it? HUH????? (WITH A CONFUSED LOOK) Compared to everything you get with the ZL1 (580HP Supercharged engine, HUD,all the luxuries including a RADIO!!!!!!!!) it just doesn't make sense to pay that much for the Z/28 badge!!

Is it just me or does anything over 40K seem ridiculous?
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:10 AM   #344
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SilverSurfer, it seems you need to pull your head out of your butt and breathe. Relax is a word in the dictionary. In your world, I truly believe you would somehow find fault finding a perfect 10 at your favorite hangout that's holding the winning lotto ticket and wanting to go home with you. Nothing is seemingly going to make you happy, and I think it has something FAR deeper than the taillights that you don't care for. Your attitude comes across as if you were the engineer for the 1st gen Aztec. You seem to leave the room with a lot of people not holding most of what you say with much regard. It's rather not what you say, but the way you come across. Advice, just lighten up, dude.

Tail lamps are NOT going to slow the sales of the Camaro. Anyone who is so turned off by one feature of the car really was just looking for an excuse not to buy one anyway. I do feel the sales will start to slow with the anticipation of the 6th gen. That's how it always is. It won't by because of the tail lights.

And whoever said that you can't change your mind after seeing a specimen in person than in the print needs their head examined. When I saw pictures of the first 3rd gen (a straight on side shot), I was saddened by the way the hatch glass looked. But when I saw a demo at the dealership, I placed my order that day for an 82 Z28. And I initially thought the 4th gen "exposed" wipers looked stupid when I first saw them, but didn't make it a deal breaker. Then the "catfish" look of the 98-02...excuse me? But now, nearly every car has them. Talk about forward thinking. And I ended up owning 3 of the 4th gen cars, a 93 Z28 and two 2002 Camaros (Z28 and SS). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I still have no use for the 2010-13 SS mail slot, but hey, it's there, but again, that one little "flaw" didn't stop me from buying a 5th gen.

So if y'all will quit flogging this thread and trying to show how big each other's d!ks are, maybe, just MAYBE, we can all get back to constructively evaluating the hits/misses with the 14 model year Camaro.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:20 AM   #345
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Ok I had a book that had direct quotes from the Chief Designer Henry Haga
from the book "Camaro an American Icon" by Gary Witzenburg.
on page 51 this is what is written about the design inspiration of the second gen Camaro. there are other references throughout the discussion of the design of the 70 Camaro that mention the Jaguar influence but I don't want to take up any more space in this thread.. you can get the book at Barns & Nobel and read the entire thing, It's really good...
I hope you can read this scanned page...

You gave us two OPINION articles that said the car looked like it came from Italy and was inspired from Ferrari and now one that says it was from Jaguar and England. Which is it??? I might believe the front of a Jag. So I will stand corrected.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:29 AM   #346
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Sorry for hijacking the thread... I don't think they would believe me if I said the sky was blue and the grass is green.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:30 AM   #347
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You gave us two OPINION articles that said the car looked like it came from Italy and was inspired from Ferrari and now one that says it was from Jaguar and England. Which is it??? I might believe the front of a Jag. So I will stand corrected.
You can believe whatever you want I am done with you now...
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:32 AM   #348
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Everyone has an opinion, they are entitled to their own opinion. Many people have intentionally changed the appearance of their Camaros, again, their entitled to artistic license. Myself, I have not changed the outward appearance of my 2010. Even though I will be soon installing a new front bumper cover, I am keeping it OEM. When I show up at an event I want people to recognize my car for what it is, not for what they want others to think it is.

As for the refresh, I am not an instant fan of the tail lights and untill I see one in person, I have no comment of the front. It is what it is and as Scott said, they did what they perceived to be what the most people wanted. Can't blame them for that. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Buy a used Camaro or wait a couple years for the next generation. I'm sure there will plenty that love the next gen and plenty that hate it. that's life.
Most people thought Edsil Ford was crazy, maybe he was, but I kinda liked his ugly car.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:32 AM   #349
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im starting to like the new look... I think it would look better in person
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:40 AM   #350
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im starting to like the new look... I think it would look better in person
Remember you can't change your mind......it's impossible
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