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Old 04-01-2013, 11:42 PM   #351
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From EL ESS X
So if y'all will quit flogging this thread and trying to show how big each other's d!ks are, maybe, just MAYBE, we can all get back to constructively evaluating the hits/misses with the 14 model year Camaro.[/QUOTE]


The only BIG flaw is the generic taillights. That is what I have been saying and so has just about everyone else that has a problem with it. Don't take it personal. We have opinions too. Very seldom are first opinions wrong. That is why it is always said, " first impressions can make or break so try to make the best impression the first time." As I said and I won't change my mind...GM could have done better! Period. It was a small refresh done specifically for the new Z/28. The front was done purely for better drag coefficients so it had to be like that. The seats were a nice touch for a racing style car and the back was an after thought. Summed it up in two sentences.

Fbody father isn't allowed to say what he really thinks because he wouldn't be invited back again for the next changes. His job now is PR and trying to suppress negative remarks. He cannot say anything negative at all. He is not an engineer on the project and never was but just an invited guest and he don't want to lose that position. I totally understand his circumstances. He may actually love all the changes too but we will never know that is the case for sure. He is in a precarious spot right now and has to promote the total package.

I am glad you like all the changes. Some people like tooth decay too.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:38 AM   #352
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You got the same 5 people going over the same thing's over and over again...you know that's the definition of.....
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:18 AM   #353
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Congrats to Team Camaro Scott and keep up the good work. Maybe if I could just ask a favor and give us the option to squeeze that LS7 into a SS?!
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:01 AM   #354
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Hey Scott,

Thanks for the insight to the events leading up to the 2014 reveal. It's obvious to the vast majority of us your team is working feverishly on these designs. Each release had been right on target, and the delivery numbers speak for themselves. I suspect those hurling insults really have deeper issues in life.

I credit this program with bringing the muscle car back and taking it mainstream.

Your team is right on target. Stay focused on the mission.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:06 AM   #355
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Great job, Scott and team Camaro. Even with my preferences you guys still hit it out of the park. I can't wait to see one in person.

The tail lights are like the 2013 wheels. Very one complains and then seeing them in person makes them say...."they've grown on me". Which we all know is code for I like them, but didn't want to admit it.

Keep the Camaros coming Chevy!!!


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Old 04-02-2013, 08:07 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21 View Post
You forgot one!

Attachment 492471

What do you say now!


You realize you've been here for less than a full month and over 50% of your posts are in this thread alone? (As of right now, you have 31 total posts, 16 of which are in here)

Please go troll somewhere else.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:54 AM   #357
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soooo...its made for the track, yet as soon as you take it on the track it voids the warranty because of excessive abuse?
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:59 AM   #358
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soooo...its made for the track, yet as soon as you take it on the track it voids the warranty because of excessive abuse?
May I ask where you got that information?
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #359
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the owners manual.....dealerships....
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:17 AM   #360
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:18 AM   #361
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BINGO!
Well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21 View Post
Scott, I mean you no disrespect. But being a retired GM Engineering veteran of over 30 years and having bought a brand new 1973 Z28 in 1973 at 19 years old I can,'t hold back my opinion. When I first saw the 1968 Camaro I was a huge fan at 15 years old. I had to have a Camaro. I am now 59, soon to be 60 and through the years I watched the Camaro grow uglier and uglier with every change. This was partly because GM would cut funding half way into a design change and ruin the recipe. I watched it with the Oldsmobile Cutlass too. It was horrible to watch great cars ruined by bean counters instead of creative designers.

The reason the 5th generation Camaro was such a great success was all the input by the Focus team. They were not invited this time. How quickly GM forgets. The front of the car isn't that bad but the rear didn't get much thought at all. There are a lot of people on here that has "the Emperor's new clothes" syndrome. Just because you say everyone put in hard work in this redesign doesn't make it not suck. Those taillights are a big fail. They wrap around and are not flat like the 69'. They look like sedan taillights. Cheap at that and only the SS gets LEDs. Not modern in any way and they don't look at all like the 69's. It wasn't until the 4th generation did GM finally start making the Camaro look better after nearly twenty years of ugly designs. Then what, they stopped making them.

I can't believe that only two people besides me has the nuts to tell you the truth. Hence the Emperor's new clothes syndrome. Just because you say " we tried really hard," people feel bad that they insulted you so they are kissing your behind. Don't take it personal. The car has some good attributes but also has some bad ones. That's life.

I am in the process of buying a 2013 Camaro. I had a 2010 Camaro. I loved it. I won't be buying a redesigned new one until the 6th Generation comes out. Hopefully there will be real peoples input in that one.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:23 AM   #362
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Quote:
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soooo...its made for the track, yet as soon as you take it on the track it voids the warranty because of excessive abuse?
soooo... I think we're covered bench racing all models.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:24 AM   #363
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Quote:
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the owners manual.....dealerships....
So you have seen the owners manual on the Z/28.... How privileged you must be and how well informed your dealer is...
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:47 AM   #364
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Quote:
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So you have seen the owners manual on the Z/28.... How privileged you must be and how well informed your dealer is...
no i have not, but thats the way manufacturers cover their a$$....it is however in the current camaro brochure...even ZL1
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:49 AM   #365
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Quote:
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soooo... I think we're covered bench racing all models.
covered bench racing all models???? i dont understand what your saying...
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:54 AM   #366
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no i have not, but thats the way manufacturers cover their a$$....it is however in the current camaro brochure...even ZL1
There is a video on here of I think Al O where he says about the ZL1 that if you take it to the track the warranty will not be voided... Now if you tear it up,at the track I can see them maybe denying the claim... Or if you have modified the car from stock it may be... Does the brochure say MAY or WILL be voided?
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:58 AM   #367
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sure y ou can take it to the track and let it sit in the parking lot and not void the warranty, but if you have damage from the track, your claim will be voided. if you have no issue from the track, then there is no sense in making a claim....


not sure what your deal is, but ive noticed the last few pages that youve made it a point to post on everyones comments....
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:04 AM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen View Post
sure y ou can take it to the track and let it sit in the parking lot and not void the warranty, but if you have damage from the track, your claim will be voided. if you have no issue from the track, then there is no sense in making a claim....


not sure what your deal is, but ive noticed the last few pages that youve made it a point to post on everyones comments....
Is there a forum rule stating I can't respond to others posts?
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:10 AM   #369
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:17 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen View Post
sure y ou can take it to the track and let it sit in the parking lot and not void the warranty, but if you have damage from the track, your claim will be voided. if you have no issue from the track, then there is no sense in making a claim....


not sure what your deal is, but ive noticed the last few pages that youve made it a point to post on everyones comments....
To clarify, taking it to the track to race is not covered, taking it to the track to drive during track day events is covered... So as long as you are not participating in an actual race you are covered... At least that is what was said about the ZL1
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:17 AM   #371
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Have they even published the Z/28 warranty info yet?
I suspect they will have a different owners manual. The current book would grow 20% just saying "does not apply to Z/28" on every page.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #372
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OK - we'll start all over again and give you everything you want.....and as to the rest of the enthusiasts...well, to heck with them.

I don't mean to be brusque - but it appears that you really don't care what I say -- you evidently don't care about the explanation - and you don't seem to care what anyone else says. If YOU don't like what we've done, we're wrong....and if someone says they like it - well then, they're just "kissing butt" -- which, if I was one of the people who said "I like it!" - I'd be very much offended by your 'kissing butt" remark.

Perhaps you really need to look at the bigger picture and realize that AS I SAID SEVERAL TIMES over the past week - no matter what we do, we'll not make everyone happy.

I'm sorry you don't like the new car. Perhaps you will in 6 months. If you don't -- well - I don't know that there's anything we can do about it.
Scott, a word of advice (which you probably already know and have been told many times anyway): it's not worth it to respond to such posts, in particular where those insults (especially the personal sort) you mentioned in your opening post form the majority of the content. It's the internet; the sort of tough talk which would see someone end up in a fight in face-to-face confrontation is commonplace in this sort of venue. It's not right, but it is what it is.

As far as the exterior design goes, I was a bit apprehensive when those first, low-res captures from that TV show showed up online, but I bit my tongue and waited for high-res images from the official reveal to come out before saying anything. I'm glad I did, because when those were released I can absolutely understand all the cheering. In my personal opinion I do wish the tail lights didn't wrap around the fender like they do, but that's a very minor nitpick - they absolutely do look very much like a first generation Camaro, more than the 2010-2014 lights which I always regarded as a hybrid of Corvette and classic Camaro design language (which still looked great). Just from the pictures the car looks mean, and the whole team deserves a ton of credit for that. It's a lot more of a refresh than I was expecting for this stage in the fifth-gen's lifecycle.


---

As for the Z/28, to the extent that I'm displeased (which makes how I feel seem a lot more negative than I intend), perhaps I can explain away part of it as being a matter of nomenclature, and also from when I was born and the kind of Camaros I grew up with. I was born around the same time as the first third-gen 1LE's were being produced, so for me the Z28 was 'just' the model you got if you wanted a V8, far from its track-specific heritage of a couple decades earlier, so when the fifth-gen came out with first-gen heritage I had some relearning to do

I simply had thought of a renewed Z/28 as being more like Ford's Boss 302 in package, performance and pricing. Again, I wasn't around to confirm this from first-hand experience, but I don't think it would be wrong to say that having done so would have detracted from the history of the original RPO Z28 Camaro. Having a barely street legal, track-oriented race car is still a great idea, and I'm thrilled that it happened. I guess I would have preferred that such a car wore the name COPO as a regular (if limited) production model instead, which in my opinion not only would have been in keeping with that other storied name in the history of the Camaro. Plus it would have meant I'd get to see both more-attainable Z/28s and even a few COPOs lurking the streets - a man can dream, can't he? .

Team Camaro felt differently and it is the way it is. I respect your reasoning for doing so, and I meant no offense to you or your coworkers with any posts wishing it'd been just a little bit different. The lineup is still phenomenal, and getting better all the time. When the worst thing I can say about it is that the great light blue I love on my 2010 isn't available should (God forbid) something happen and I need a new one, you know I'm pretty pleased.

Even though the Boss is no longer being sold, I'd still like to see the 1LE surpass it in the couple areas where it doesn't already meet or surpass its lighter and more powerful competitor. Maybe incorporate some of the Z/28's weight reduction into it? Just an idea.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:45 AM   #373
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Quote:
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Is there a forum rule stating I can't respond to others posts?
Nope just doesnt make sense ripping silversurfer for his multiple posts then continuing to do the samething over and over again yourself. Kinda funny when I read that then see your kids helmet about five more times in a page and a half.
You dont have to be defender of the thread. Give it a break.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:58 AM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21 View Post
Scott, I mean you no disrespect. But being a retired GM Engineering veteran of over 30 years and having bought a brand new 1973 Z28 in 1973 at 19 years old I can,'t hold back my opinion. When I first saw the 1968 Camaro I was a huge fan at 15 years old. I had to have a Camaro. I am now 59, soon to be 60 and through the years I watched the Camaro grow uglier and uglier with every change. This was partly because GM would cut funding half way into a design change and ruin the recipe. I watched it with the Oldsmobile Cutlass too. It was horrible to watch great cars ruined by bean counters instead of creative designers.

The reason the 5th generation Camaro was such a great success was all the input by the Focus team. They were not invited this time. How quickly GM forgets. The front of the car isn't that bad but the rear didn't get much thought at all. There are a lot of people on here that has "the Emperor's new clothes" syndrome. Just because you say everyone put in hard work in this redesign doesn't make it not suck. Those taillights are a big fail. They wrap around and are not flat like the 69'. They look like sedan taillights. Cheap at that and only the SS gets LEDs. Not modern in any way and they don't look at all like the 69's. It wasn't until the 4th generation did GM finally start making the Camaro look better after nearly twenty years of ugly designs. Then what, they stopped making them.

I can't believe that only two people besides me has the nuts to tell you the truth. Hence the Emperor's new clothes syndrome. Just because you say " we tried really hard," people feel bad that they insulted you so they are kissing your behind. Don't take it personal. The car has some good attributes but also has some bad ones. That's life.

I am in the process of buying a 2013 Camaro. I had a 2010 Camaro. I loved it. I won't be buying a redesigned new one until the 6th Generation comes out. Hopefully there will be real peoples input in that one.
Just for an example , do a search on or look up....
The 12 disciples of which there are 15.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:05 AM   #375
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Nope just doesnt make sense ripping silversurfer for his multiple posts then continuing to do the samething over and over again yourself. Kinda funny when I read that then see your kids helmet about five more times in a page and a half.
You dont have to be defender of the thread. Give it a break.
Ok you all win......
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