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Old 04-02-2013, 12:07 PM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
1. Now – on to the Z/28……..

I’ve said many times: “Wanna get a good fight going? Ask Camaro enthusiasts which is the ‘top’ Camaro – Z28 or SS………..”

-- and then put on a crash helmet and watch the fur fly……..

Everyone has their opinion and 90 percent have an opinion that THEY are correct in their beliefs and that those with a different opinion are completely wrong and perhaps motivated by the Devil himself……………….

The new Z/28 has blown some people away and we’re getting emails and letters and phone calls saying “THANK YOU! You FINALLY understand what a Z/28 really is after all these years of ruining the nameplate!.....”

It also has some people saying:

“You RUINED it! I can’t get *insert favorite option here* and so you are a bunch of…..*insert foul words here*….”

Or—

“ ……what do you MEAN it’s not a drag car???......”

Or---

“…..this car should come in at 40K!...” (even though we’ve not discussed price as of yet—and frankly, 40K is as attainable as me being elected as President of the United States……….)

(and for those who think the Z/28 should be 40K – take a 1LE and start counting the costs of all the awesomeness we’ve added to the Camaro in order to make it a true Z/28 – and then take into consideration the costs for engineering and validating – and then consider we have to ensure we don’t lose money on the program….)



Let’s take a walk down memory lane, shall we?

The ONLY reason for the original Z/28…

(note I once again used ‘Z/28’ and not ‘Z28)

….. was to go road racing. SCCA Trans Am racing had a rule that no competing car in the series could have an engine displacement larger than 305 cubic inches.

Our Camaro SS-396 was FAST…..but it wasn’t really a ‘track’ car. So the purpose of the Z/28 was to compete in Trans Am Racing – meaning it had to stick to the road like Velcro. Tidbit: None of the 602 1967 model year Camaros with option code Z28 had a nameplate that said Z/28 on them. It really wasn’t meant to be a main-stream entry.

As we moved into the 2nd gen years, the SCCA engine rule went by the wayside…….. And with increasingly stringent fuel and emissions standards, performance was on the wane……at a startling rate. Fast-rising insurance rates certainly didn’t help things…… And by the early 70s, there really wasn’t room for both a Camaro SS and a Z/28 as we knew them. By 1974, performance was so diminished that the Z/28 was dropped at the end of the model year because it had become to many of us a ‘caricature’ of what it once had been. The SS had been taken from the line up at the end of 1972…….

When the Z28 came back in 1977 (note the difference in the name…..there was no “/”….) it was definitely a road hugger – and it DID offer more performance than any other From then on – whether right or wrong, the Z28 was the ‘performance’ Camaro….until the IROC came along. The Z28 was then relegated to ‘2nd fiddle’ and that didn’t set well with Z/28 purists. But – on the other hand, the Camaro was the “International Race Of Champions” chosen brand – and one could go down to their Chevy Dealer and buy a new Camaro – an IROC Camaro – that sure looked a lot like the real race car.

…….And then Chevy pulled out of IROC racing -- and the Z28 was once again the ‘ultimate’ Camaro…that is, unless you ordered one with 1LE.

Fast forward once again to the advent of the 4th gen. We offered a Camaro Sport Coupe with a V6 engine – or a V-8 Camaro Z28 with an LT1 small-block with a ‘blistering’ 275 horsepower.
(to some of you young-uns – that was a LOT of horsepower in 1993….)

Yes – the Z28 was the ‘ultimate’ Camaro back then………and then Ed Hamburger at SLP Engineering came to us and said something along the lines of: “….Chevy -You’ve done a magnificent job with the Z28 – but I’ve got plans to take it to the next level…”

and we said “Sure!” …and the Camaro SS roared back to life. That also put the Z28 as ‘second-in-line’ and again, Camaro Z/28 purists were not happy! I very much remember getting several phone calls, letters, and emails that weren’t –shall we say – ‘charitable’ in their content…..

It all became moot when the Camaro went onto Hiatus in the late summer of 2002……..and I continued to say to you, our Camaro Enthuiasts – to “keep the faith…” - -that GM understood the importance of the Camaro nameplate. Yes, there were a few people within the corporation that proposed moving the name to the J-car platform.

(Blasephemy!)

(….they were last seen being shoved into a fleet of black suburbans – never to be seen again…….)

As John Heinricy said in a meeting that I attended: “The ugliest sight I can imagine would be tire smoke coming from the FRONT tires of a Camaro!..”)

As I’d said before, as Custodians of the Brand, it was crucial that we ensure that the 5th gen Camaro build upon it’s rich 35 year heritage. And yet, as I mentioned earlier in this article, we were questioned at every step of the way. And that’s not a bad thing, I suppose.

We felt so strongly about the heritage of Camaro and ensuring that the new Camaro would “check all the boxes” that were important to Camaro Enthusiasts - that we drafted the 15 members of the Camaro Enthusiast Advisory Board (better known as ‘The 12 Disciples of which there are 15’)

So—after all that: The 5th gen Camaro hit the streets and blew people away…..it’s still #1 in the segment – so I think the team did a pretty good job, don’t you agree?

At the same time, we’d been working on a Camaro that took performance way past our SS. It had been in the product plan for some time – but with the Housing Melt-down of the mid to late 2000s – and the resultant Bankruptcy of GM (and Chrysler and many vendors) the “HP” Camaro was put on ice. That the “HP” car was put back into the program was a miracle in and of itself. Interestingly, it was internally called the “HP” and kept top secret….. but the intended name was to be Z28. Talk about controversy. There were emails, letters, threats, banging-on-desks – and perhaps some thinly veiled threats made……and it was finally decided that the original Z/28 had a naturally aspirated V8 engine. The “HP” Camaro was to have a supercharged engine…….so perhaps the Z/28 moniker wasn’t really appropriate. Our President, Mr. Mark Reuss – himself a Camaro Enthusiast since the time he was able to recognize a Camaro – made the final call…..the “HP” would be christened “ZL1.” What you DON’T know is that he had another plan in mind for the Z/28.
(Note the “/”…..)

Volumes will be written about the 2014 Z/28 – but what’s important to understand is that while we made “Z28” enthusiasts happy over the years with 275hp – and then 285hp – and then an LS1 based Z28………we continually disappointed the “Z/28” purist.

The 2014 is dedicated to the “Z/28” purist. This is a track car that makes no excuses. That this car is a full three seconds faster on a track than the mighty ZL1 speaks volumes to its intent. Make no mistake – this isn’t a slap at the mightly ZL1. Far from it. If you want a car that blows other cars off a road course on Saturday and Sunday – and yet will get you to the office in comfort on Monday morning – the ZL1 is the car for you. If you want blistering track performance at a reasonable cost – the 1LE is prescribed. And – if you want to shame exotics on a road course – with an automobile that’s not meant for daily driving, then the Z/28 makes no apologies and may grab you by the collar – shake you silly -- and shout “LET’S GO MAKE HISTORY!”

So—that’s been a lot of words.

And that’s my take on why we’ve done what we’ve done.

Many already understood before I started typing away.

Some others now have a better understanding.

Yet others will say “Scott – go take a long walk on a short dock…..” Some of those are true Camaro enthusiasts and just are upset that what we’ve done isn’t in keeping with what they’d like or prefer.

And then there are the trolls………….who like nothing more than to start something……….

As I said at the very beginning…..we at Team Camaro are ‘The Custodians of the Brand” – and we take our jobs very seriously. Every decision is in many ways, agonizing. But – we have to make hard and fast decisions.

And yes – it hurts when we’re constantly ‘called on the carpet’ – and yet rarely if ever get an apology afterward. We have broad shoulders and our skin is tough…but it IS discouraging and a bit frustrating to be constantly insulted. And for an old codger like me (I’m quite certain I’m the oldest in the group…..) I tend to lose my temper more than I used to when people become ‘surly’…..

So – in the final analysis…………

……….we hope you’ll go check out the family of 2014 Camaros when they become available. We hope that the family Camaros will offer you a great spread of choices

Let me introduce the family……….

>323 horsepower LS and LT

>400 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS/1LE

>580 horsepower ZL1

And the new Camaro Z/28…….


…every one of them designed, engineered, and built to instill “Perma-Grin.”

What’s not to love?

Thanks for taking the time to read my ruminations and I hope you’ve got a better understanding of ‘why’………..

It’s the best time EVER to be a Camaro Enthusiast.


Note: The opinions shared in this email are the opinions of ME….and not necessarily those of the company for whom I work.....
Couldn't have said it better, so I'm not going to try.

I think I'll just quote you a lot instead.

Thanks for all you and the Camaro team do, Fbodfather!!!
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:24 PM   #377
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To clarify, taking it to the track to race is not covered, taking it to the track to drive during track day events is covered... So as long as you are not participating in an actual race you are covered... At least that is what was said about the ZL1
so you can drive average speeds on a race track....that's not considered a "track car".....
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:25 PM   #378
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Three things I'd have to comment on:
1. Unfortunately those who are really passionate about something are going to be the ones who are the most vocal about it, whether they hate it or love it (mostly though its when they hate it)
2. People are always "against" change of any sort so you will face that no matter the industry you are in.
3. People will always "say" they could do a better job, then when push comes to shove they wouldn't know where to begin!

I'm am not 100% goo-goo about the re-design for 2014 but improvements must be made and I am giddy with excitement about a true Z/28!!

You and the rest of the Camaro faithful need to continue your job FBODfather, the fact that the Camaro has had so much success is true measurement of your good work!
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #379
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so you can drive average speeds on a race track....that's not considered a "track car".....
Have you ever been to a track day and participated? They are not just driving around at average speeds unless you count as fast as you can drive average...
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Ringo64 View Post
Three things I'd have to comment on:
1. Unfortunately those who are really passionate about something are going to be the ones who are the most vocal about it, whether they hate it or love it (mostly though its when they hate it)
2. People are always "against" change of any sort so you will face that no matter the industry you are in.
3. People will always "say" they could do a better job, then when push comes to shove they wouldn't know where to begin!

I'm am not 100% goo-goo about the re-design for 2014 but improvements must be made and I am giddy with excitement about a true Z/28!!

You and the rest of the Camaro faithful need to continue your job FBODfather, the fact that the Camaro has had so much success is true measurement of your good work!
I agree. when I first saw the SS redesign, I said " man im glad I have mine because I don't like the look enough to make me want to trade mine in"...but when the Z28 came out.... the design took backseat to the concept of the car. love everything about it...but the redesign changes....especially the rear. I can live with the front...but the rear just doesn't look modern on the car. I get the 69 tribute, but it just doesn't look right. looks like a lot of other vehicles from the 90's that had that style rear end. so needless to say, unless its priced right, ill stick with my SS.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:30 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
Have you ever been to a track day and participated? They are not just driving around at average speeds unless you count as fast as you can drive average...
yes I have..... also have my competition license.....

and taking it to the track regardless...and pushing it to the limits is NOT covered under warranty. registered race car or not, racing on a track is not covered. if your door to door racing or lead follow lapping....its still "misusing the car" under warranty guidelines.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:32 PM   #382
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yes I have..... also have my competition license.....
Ok
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
So – in the final analysis…………

……….we hope you’ll go check out the family of 2014 Camaros when they become available. We hope that the family Camaros will offer you a great spread of choices

Let me introduce the family……….

>323 horsepower LS and LT

>400 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS/1LE

>580 horsepower ZL1

And the new Camaro Z/28…….
Scott;

You forgot one!

>??? horsepower COPO (for those that don't like to steer...)
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:52 PM   #384
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Ok


Wow do you feel alright Angry? That is your shortest post on record..
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:02 PM   #385
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Camaro2lt posted that the z/28 has a exposed carbon fiber extractor, I wonder if the one on the SS is painted CF and not cheap plastic like people have posted.
Considering the caliber of the other parts on the new Z/28 that they would go with an imitation CF insert?
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:04 PM   #386
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Wow do you feel alright Angry? That is your shortest post on record..
I'm fine, thanks for asking...

For those that say the ZL1 is not covered for track days please pay close attention around the 42 second part of this video...


With this I am done...
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:24 PM   #387
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Camaro2lt posted that the z/28 has a exposed carbon fiber extractor, I wonder if the one on the SS is painted CF and not cheap plastic like people have posted.
There's this weird assumption that ALL plastic is "cheap", and that's not the case. I wish some more people had a materials sciences classes in high school or college....

Anyways - no, the SS hood extractor is plastic, not Carbon Fiber. It's the same shape, but you're probably looking at a $200-$300 difference in cost, and the SS needs to appeal to far more people than the Z28 or ZL1 do.

No word on if it's an option, though. It might be!
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:37 PM   #388
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Scott;

You forgot one!

>??? horsepower COPO (for those that don't like to steer...)

"for those that don't like to steer", I love it!
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:38 PM   #389
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I'm fine, thanks for asking...

For those that say the ZL1 is not covered for track days please pay close attention around the 42 second part of this video...


With this I am done...
check page 9-6 in the owners manual..... saying it is one thing....actually doing it is another..
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:47 PM   #390
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Hey Scott, hope you and the team got my thank you note.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:52 PM   #391
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check page 9-6 in the owners manual..... saying it is one thing....actually doing it is another..
And they will. "Keep the faith".

They have stood behind a few warranty repairs that have surfaced on this website alone. Lord knows there were probably more we're not aware of. As long as the car isn't modified or abused - it's covered. They fully expect people to be racing it and USING it....
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:33 PM   #392
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So, am I the only one that scanned through all these pages just to read Scott's posts and miss all the whining, bitching and complaining...?
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:41 PM   #393
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So, am I the only one that scanned through all these pages just to read Scott's posts and miss all the whining, bitching and complaining...?
Nope. Me too.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:38 PM   #394
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I for one continue to be blown away by the amount of communication in this forum (in a good way). I'm not talking about post count either.

It's a true blessing in the automotive world to have a team that is so passionate that LISTENS to the masses and actually takes their, in some cases rediculous ideas, onboard and MAKEs CHANGE!! Sure it's a good business practice, but I think we can all agreee that this teams takes it to a new level.

I was hesitant to change my username for fear we may not see the Z again but I'm glad I stuck with it. From the first car I owned a 77 RS, to the IROC I had in highschool, to the 2010 SS/RS I had, and to the Z06 Corvette I currently own, I am really proud of what has been done with the Camaro, especially with the addition of the LS7!!!!

Scott, I know a simple "Thank you" doesn't quite cut it but to you and the rest of the Camaro team, Thank you for everything!!

I wonder if GM will offer an LS7 build experience like they do with the Corvette? If they do, sign me up now!!
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:44 PM   #395
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[QUOTE=Doc;6361934]

maybe something like this instead

Attachment 491726

Yes!
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:39 PM   #396
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V6 info from Mr Wyndham

I was not going to post in this thread any more but since some people had asked about the V6 changes I thought it may be of interest.

From Mr Wyndham's interview with Tom Peters at the auto show thread.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286697
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Ah! Good question. I asked that, but not during one of the interviews...so it wasn't written down.

It will have the same hood as the current models. This way the SS and V6 no longer share hood designs, and might not get confused as often. The SS's will look wider, and more powerful to tease the V8 underneath, versus the LS/LT hood that just looks awesome on its own.

The front fascia will be a little less aggressive, but it shares the same design changes.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:28 AM   #397
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:31 PM   #398
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While Steve is nice, I'm not a fan of his ass.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:56 PM   #399
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GM needs to pull ahead the alpha platform for Chevrolet. ZL1's sit unsold on the lots with $7,000 discounts, the LS3 has not seen a power increase in the Camaro since the introduction. At some point everyone that wants a 5th gen has one, and a JC Whitney refresh is not enough to continue the sales momentum.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:57 PM   #400
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i saw them both in person this sunday. the z28's paint was really bad ass too bad you are not going to offer it in the production model.

the new SS does nothing for me. the only thing I like about the re-make is the front grill (and that had to grow on me). everything else wasn't an improvement in my opinion.

The z28's body kit and wheels is what makes that car look aggressive. Looking forward to learning about what kind of power that motor is going to be putting out.

that's my opinion.
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