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Old 04-01-2013, 12:50 PM   #307
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For those that "just want an LS7" in a Camaro... why? That's a $15k mod as a crate engine; plus all the labor and other things you have to modify to install it. If all you want is 500 hp, that's relatively easy (and MUCH cheaper) to achieve with the current LS3. Just get a 1LE, mod the engine to 500 hp and you'll have the same performance hp-wise of an LS7. The only difference is the LS7 can redline at 7k instead of 6.5k but is that really worth an extra $10k?

500 hp at the crank is going to translate into about 435 to the rear wheels. There's about a 13% loss of hp due to various resistances of everything between the engine and the rear wheels on a stock factory car. A stock SS with an LS3 rated at 426 hp is showing about 370 to the rear wheels, so you'd be gaining about 65 hp. Which is fun. If that's all you want, you can get that by spending less than a third of what an LS7 will cost. That would place a modded 1LE somewhere between $40k-50k which appears to be the price range a lot of people want for the new Z/28 (which isn't going to happen).

The wheels and tires alone on the new Z/28 probably cost twice what it would cost to mod an LS3 to 500 hp. The new Z/28 is designed to be raced on a track, it's not designed for daily driving or toodling around town. Every other model Camaro is designed for that.

The only reason anybody wants/wanted a Z/28 was because it won the Trans Am in the hands of the Mark Donohue/Roger Penske racing team. If it had gotten regularly beaten by Mustangs and everything else on the track would people have wanted to buy and drive a car with Z/28 on the side? Not likely.

Mark Stielow and team have designed this new Z/28 to be a championship-winning car, and that's what it's going to do. I don't care for the plain design of the backend but that's a minor cosmetic issue. Performance-wise this car absolutely rocks and I can't wait to see it winning races on the track.

^^ couldn't have said it better myself ^^

That being said.

If I had the means... I would still buy one. But since I'm living on planet reality I'll keep happily modding my SS.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:53 PM   #308
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Scott,
Its human nature, people are resistant to change.
Maybe the tails will grow on us.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:02 PM   #309
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So if FBodfather says "The twin turbo V6 2014 camaro does not exist".

That might mean it DOES exist but he has to pretend it does not exist due to his job requirements to say "it does not exist", until it is scheduled to be discussed openly.

I assume a Twin turbo V6 camaro exists in between the normal V6 and V8.

The Z28 is called "a car to help GM make astronomical profit per car". easy way to explain everything in 10 words.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:05 PM   #310
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So if FBodfather says "The twin turbo V6 2014 camaro does not exist".

That might mean it DOES exist but he has to pretend it does not exist due to his job requirements to say "it does not exist", until it is scheduled to be discussed openly.

I assume a Twin turbo V6 camaro exists in between the normal V6 and V8.
Yeah, I read about it's going to be RPO code Z14.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:26 PM   #311
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You have a point. However, how many of the people who voted have actually seen the car in person?

I very much remember unveiling the 2002 35th Anniversary Camaro. The people who saw the car at the unveil for the most part loved it. (....except for one woman who was CERTAIN that we would bring a car out that was exactly like the 1969 Camaro........)

Those on the internet, however, raised Holy Heck........and yet some of those very people ordered one a few weeks later. And - we had people upset that we only built 3,000 for the U.S.

What I'm saying is that I've been down this road. There were polls about the Concept car. There were polls about the SS fascia - There were polls about the first steering wheel in the 2010 - There were polls about the revised steering wheel.............there are polls for our polls. The reality is that every one of the polls I mention had about 50 to 60 percent of the pollsters not liking what they saw. And in almost every case - they'd never seen the car or the component in person.

What I want to see is the responses to those who have seen the various models in person -- the reality is that the sales numbers will tell the real story.


Scott, that is what I said in one of my earlier posts. Time will tell. Sales don't lie. We will see if what was done will hurt car sales. The Camaro is still a great car and the 5th Generation Camaro is the most solidly built car of all the previous Camaro generations. No squeaks and rattles like before. The 2014 has that same quality built in.

You got me wrong before, I still love the Camaro. I never said I didn't like the car, just the rear taillights could and should have been better. I think GM is saving the super good stuff for the 6th Generation Camaro. That is why this was only a partial refresh. At least I hope that is the case. I just don't want to see history repeat itself and go the route of so many other GM cars that used to be really great and faded into oblivion. I care about this car too much to see that happen again.

Unlike you, I was an engineer and saw what happened in the 80s and 90s to GM's car line-ups. I watched as we switched our cars from looking American to European. It turned my stomach. Then I watched GM bring in a guy to head up "worldwide purchasing" in the early 90's named Lopez. He squeezed GM's suppliers so bad that they either had to lower their quality to survive or go out of business. I have seen it all in my over thirty years being there. I don't need you to tell me that I don't know what I am saying because I do...I was there!

You are an enthusiast that was lucky enough to be able to see the development of Camaro and rub elbows with the big shots. You of all would not dare to ever say anything negative about the Camaro or you would be history. You can make suggestions but you can't ever say anything after the fact or you would never be invited back.

I don't have that problem. I don't have to worry about what I say and can give an honest opinion if I don't like something. You can't. I totally understand now. That is ok...I see where you are coming from. I would bite my tongue to if I were in your shoes so I could continue to see the car I love go through it's design phases and get invited to the big show.

Thank you. Now that I know the real story I feel better.

Sales will tell if they did good. I will hold my 2013 until the next change.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:41 PM   #312
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Yup - prefer it to other choices.

I like the 'real' keypad....

(...altho the new B/berry I have seems to be possessed........)


I just took delivery of an XTS which, when you buy an XTS, comes with an iPad................Cadillac branding and all - a very nice touch.....

Gotta learn all there is to know about C.U.E......



.........guess I gotta get busy and learn all about that, huh???
NEWS!!!! GEN 6 Camaro to get an IPAD!!! You read it here first.

Of course I am only kidding what do I know... Perhaps reading ALOT more into what is there.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:05 PM   #313
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Scott;

Thanks for the reallity check. Folks rarely know what it takes to bring a product like this to market. As you said, the passion for the brand has triggered some turrets amongst the community! You and the team have brought something back that we remember as a true Z/28. This quickly out of the gate after the economy crumpling, with ecological hand-wringers pushing for 80 MPG, and safety gestapo trying to take the steering wheel out of our hands entirely, I feel its a great time to be a car enthusiast again! I never thought I'd see another performance/muscle car era in my lifetime (its amazing we survived the Dark Ages)!
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:30 PM   #314
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I read the first three posts of this thread, and then everything else was TL;DR

I like the refresh. And frankly, if you can't see how these tail lights:



or these tail lights:



looks like these tail lights:



then maybe you, and not the GM team, need to have your eyes checked.

I love the fact that the back up lights have been integrated into the tail lights. I've always thought the stand-alone back up lights on the 2010-2013 Camaros looked out-of-place a bit. Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I always kind of wondered why they ended up where they did

And also, I think this



and this



looks friggin cool
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #315
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We refreshed the front fascia to make the car more intimidating. We made the car look wider. AND – we made the SS look different than the V6 model. (at your request, by the way….) Further, there’s more differentiation between an RS Camaro and a non-RS Camaro – both in the front AND rear. (again, by your request…)

And for the record – the V6 does not have the extractor in the hood – once again differentiating the SS from the non-SS.
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@fbodfather: when do we get to see the LS/LT refresh?
fbodfather, when do we get to see the V6? I know it isn't the darling that the SS or Z/28 is but some of us actually love our V6's and wouldn't trade them for a bigger V8.

....now that new TT V6 in the Caddy CTS....hmmmm
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:31 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter View Post
I read the first three posts of this thread, and then everything else was TL;DR

I like the refresh. And frankly, if you can't see how these tail lights:



or these tail lights:



looks like these tail lights:



then maybe you, and not the GM team, need to have your eyes checked.

I love the fact that the back up lights have been integrated into the tail lights. I've always thought the stand-alone back up lights on the 2010-2013 Camaros looked out-of-place a bit. Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I always kind of wondered why they ended up where they did

And also, I think this



and this



looks friggin cool
You forgot one!

Name:  Prelude8.jpg
Views: 4276
Size:  61.0 KB

What do you say now!
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #317
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You forgot one!

Attachment 492471

What do you say now!
Can't you come up with new material, it's boring seeing the same thing a billion times.
Besides those tail lights have a big wide reverse light across the bottom, they have a completely different shaped wrap around, they sit farther down the deck lid, have that dopey bumper sticking out below the tail lights, no diffuser and No Dual/Quad exhaust outlets.. To me it's not even close to the 2014 Camaro. Please get your eyes examined...
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:02 PM   #318
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I suppose you can count the little LEDs and say there are less or there are more so they aren't the same. They look close enough to the Preludes lights. They don't have to be EXACT to look similar. You sir, are the one who needs glasses. Judging from your posts and the amout of your posts that you also need a LIFE! LOL
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:38 PM   #319
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I suppose you can count the little LEDs and say there are less or there are more so they aren't the same. They look close enough to the Preludes lights. They don't have to be EXACT to look similar. You sir, are the one who needs glasses. Judging from your posts and the amout of your posts that you also need a LIFE! LOL
Wow then if you want to be like that then they look similar to most all rectangular tail lights. Preludes didn't have LEDs. So many differences and you just say similar.. In that account they are more similar to 69 tail lights of which it has been explained numerous times was the inspiration for the Camaros lights...you seem not to be able to accept the true inspiration and just want to tear it down just because you don't like them.

About my life.. It's my life and I will live it as I please, it's America last time I looked. You can mind your own business...
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:10 PM   #320
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Just think the 2010 almost looked like this...
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:17 PM   #321
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Wow then if you want to be like that then they look similar to most all rectangular tail lights. Preludes didn't have LEDs. So many differences and you just say similar.. In that account they are more similar to 69 tail lights of which it has been explained numerous times was the inspiration for the Camaros lights...you seem not to be able to accept the true inspiration and just want to tear it down just because you don't like them.

About my life.. It's my life and I will live it as I please, it's America last time I looked. You can mind your own business...
If it was inspired by the 69, it would not have wrapped around the edge. Period. But you will just keep pulling the wool over to feel better.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:22 PM   #322
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If it was inspired by the 69, it would not have wrapped around the edge. Period. But you will just keep pulling the wool over to feel better.
Inspired is not exactly like....3 sections with reverse light in the middle...
How about these then?
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:24 PM   #323
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Fbodfather, any chance you guys will fix the convertible tops next?
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