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5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions General 5th generation Camaro topics not covered by other subforums.

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Old 03-31-2013, 01:17 AM   #176
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Scott, thanks for the great write-up. I like the new models. It's good to hear the background story on the Camaros. Sign me up.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:27 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
...The 2014 is dedicated to the “Z/28” purist. This is a track car that makes no excuses. That this car is a full three seconds faster on a track than the mighty ZL1 speaks volumes to its intent. Make no mistake – this isn’t a slap at the mightly ZL1. Far from it. If you want a car that blows other cars off a road course on Saturday and Sunday – and yet will get you to the office in comfort on Monday morning – the ZL1 is the car for you. If you want blistering track performance at a reasonable cost – the 1LE is prescribed. And – if you want to shame exotics on a road course – with an automobile that’s not meant for daily driving, then the Z/28 makes no apologies and may grab you by the collar – shake you silly -- and shout “LET’S GO MAKE HISTORY!”...
This paragraph is what I felt when I got home from work and watched the reveal. This paragraph is why, the next morning, I was on the phone to my dealer placing a "provisional order" for the new Z/28. This paragraph is why a single version of a single car has shown me that there is a core group of die-hards at GM who truly do get it. Congratulations for doing the original proud -- and for not compromising on your vision!

[PS: Could you please tell us on which track the Z/28 was 3 seconds per lap faster than the ZL1? Since I'll be tracking the *$%#*@ out of mine, I'd really like to know. Sorry to interrupt the positive vibe... ;-) ]
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:37 AM   #178
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Scott, thank you for that and I sincerely thank you, and everyone involved, for these great cars. You may not remember me, but I was one of the guys waiting for my car to get out of Area51 and the privilege of me being able to communicate with you made the agonizing wait well worth it!

I fully understand why these great Camaros were built in this way and am backing you and all of GM in everything that is done. After all, it's being done for us...the Camaro enthusiast!

I know you all let all the miserable comments run off your shoulders like water off a ducks back, but you will always have a follower in me!

Thanks for being there when I was in Area51 and thanks for these awesome cars!
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:50 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat View Post
I'm a manufacturing ops guy turned enterprise software guy so what the heck do I know about mass consumer product marketing let alone automobiles. Nonetheless this productline seems to have too many model. Maybe chevy is trying to attract multiple market segments.



I doubt you can share the numbers but what is the unit distribution between all these models? If the 1LE is expected to be a 2% car would it be logical to assume the ZL1 is about the same expected volume or less? I guess dealers pre order zl1s but not 1le's so maybe the zl1 volume is higher. And if the Z/28 is going to be about the price of the ZL1, if not higher, how many units are expected in 2014?

Actually, it'd be really interesting if you could disclose your buyer personas for each segment/model; I realize th numbers are probably private but the persona seem like something that could be shared. ??? :-)

But maybe this model proloferation is strategic. Heck. I came back to Chevy from Audi because of the 1LE. And now you have me craving the notion of the real Z/28 though I don't have the dough nor a garage to keep it ...
Well seeing that they've produced over 6000 ZL1's, I would estimate less than 1000 for the SS with the 1LE option. So that should put the ZL1's close to the 10% range.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:04 AM   #180
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Thank you Scott and the entire team for making the Camaro in the first place. I can only imagine the blood, sweat and tears behind the scenes that goes into the finished product that we get to drive.

There are some things I would like to request though about this new revision. The front is okay; I think the upper grille is too small, the lower too big but I know you guys made these changes with wind tunnel testing. Is the upper front that narrow because of allowing too much air at high (150+) speeds? It looks like the lower grille is blocked off at the top so it could be reduced in height to match the fog light cutouts. The entire group of grilles/cutouts just looks slightly mis-matched to me, but maybe there was a wind tunnel reason for that.

The rear of the car is the area that needs the most revision. It's okay as far as it goes... if it was on the back of an ordinary sedan. But it's on the most exciting muscle car in the industry. It's just too plain and boring. I understand the rationale behind the style of the lenses and they're pretty nice looking but making them wrap around the sides was a mistake.

Here's what I think would look better. Instead of this:

Name:  2014-Chevrolet-CamaroSS-011[1].jpg
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Size:  149.2 KB

maybe something like this instead:

Name:  2014-Chevrolet-CamaroSS-011[2]a.jpg
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Size:  140.5 KB

The 69 Camaro (as well as all those glory year Camaros) had a distinctive, tied-together back between the tail lights. I would make the lenses not as wide, sink them back in further so they're more recessed, and put a slight recess into the area between the two sides so it creates that "tied-together" look the 67-70 Camaros had. This also somewhat mimics the narrow front grille area so it's consistent style-wise.

The vertical part of the bottom area looks like it came from an SUV. Too plain down there. It needs something to break up all that plain smooth plastic.

For the Z/28 add the 4 minor gauges in the vertical area above the center dash vents. Oil temp for engine, trans and diff would be very useful. It would be nice if there was a track accessory option that would include removable tow hooks, fire extinguisher and a mounting bar with 5-point harnesses.

You guys MUST make that gorgeous frost satin white color available for the Z/28!!! That same type finish should be used on all the colors on the Z/28 to make it really stand out. A frost satin bright Sunoco-orangish-yellow, a frost satin bright butterscotch orange, a rich frost satin Le Mans blue, a frost satin silver, a frost satin deep red, a frost satin slate black and the frost satin white would look absolutely killer on the Z/28 and make it stand out like no other on the road or track.

These are just my ideas and thanks again for all the hours and hard work you guys put into these wonderful machines!
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:10 AM   #181
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i agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrillz View Post
Here is one of the polls on this site that's telling you how the people here feel about the new change's. Do you not find this alarming with this kind of negative feedback from the enthusiasts?
Attachment 491683
I am not big on tweeking actual information or relative facts, but when you refer to "most camaro enthusiasts" and we are seeing starting numbers in polls,posts,opinion sites,etc I tend to listen to the people as they also are camaro enthusiasts. and I agree with this qouted poster.

I also am not into kissing butt and there should be a whole server dedicated to that just for this thread by the previous posts. Obviously those who disagree with the changes and have some not favorable opinions did not all post in this thread, however our opinions are also as "Real" as other camaro fans. I had a 240sx in front of me the other day and I noticed some similarities and have looked up preludes as well and remember, those cars are not exactly styled for the future being they are 10+ years old, so no I am not a fan of the tails either, or tiny grates on the hood which look lost to me.

I will say thank you for your post that started this thread from coming from your prospective of you represent GM's camaro team, but this is your personal opinion stance which did seem personal and was more like a rant or scolding then an educational post(just my opinion) maybe because you work there but was surprising, others will have opinions, we are the ones that keep the company going by our loyalty and contributions but should not be scolded for having negative opinions, that i dont agree with. my .02 from an actual "enthusiast".
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:54 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by AzItaliaSS View Post
I am not big on tweeking actual information or relative facts, but when you refer to "most camaro enthusiasts" and we are seeing starting numbers in polls,posts,opinion sites,etc I tend to listen to the people as they also are camaro enthusiasts. and I agree with this qouted poster.

I also am not into kissing butt and there should be a whole server dedicated to that just for this thread by the previous posts. Obviously those who disagree with the changes and have some not favorable opinions did not all post in this thread, however our opinions are also as "Real" as other camaro fans. I had a 240sx in front of me the other day and I noticed some similarities and have looked up preludes as well and remember, those cars are not exactly styled for the future being they are 10+ years old, so no I am not a fan of the tails either, or tiny grates on the hood which look lost to me.

I will say thank you for your post that started this thread from coming from your prospective of you represent GM's camaro team, but this is your personal opinion stance which did seem personal and was more like a rant or scolding then an educational post(just my opinion) maybe because you work there but was surprising, others will have opinions, we are the ones that keep the company going by our loyalty and contributions but should not be scolded for having negative opinions, that i dont agree with. my .02 from an actual "enthusiast".
If you felt like you were being scolded, then is there an element of guilt on your part? You and others can have your opinion and he can as well. I'm not speaking for him, and I don't kiss anybody's ass, but what he speaks about is from over 40 years of serving and supporting a long list of brands from GM, mostly Camaro's.

Why would he not have the best interest of "enthusiast's" at heart? This man work's tirelessly for "us". I can understand your point of view and some of the other's that have voiced their opinion about their fear of the Camaro brand being "watered down" again, but c'mon people have some patience and some faith. We've (the Camaro) been the best selling brand 3 years in a row. Does that not mean anything?

What if sales are better this coming year than the last year, how are you going to feel like then? I have a pretty good idea. And guess what, if sales take a dip, they are pretty smart enough to make changes necessary to get back to achieve whatever goals that they set. So, do you want to be on the negative nelly ride, or would you rather enjoy a great time to be an enthusiast? Your choice
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Quote:
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:55 AM   #183
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I know you can't please everyone, but damn, I don't like any of the changes for 2014. I really wish I did.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:01 AM   #184
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I know you can't please everyone, but damn, I don't like any of the changes for 2014. I really wish I did.
That's cool, you said it respectfully and with class.
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Quote:
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:09 AM   #185
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Let me introduce the family……….

>323 horsepower LS and LT

>400 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS/1LE

>580 horsepower ZL1

And the new Camaro Z/28…….
There you have it... A COMPLETE 5thGen family.

From day one we all wanted and waited for a Z/28 and in the process we got 2 models that everyone forgot about... the 1LE & ZL1. (and a bunch of cool special editions too) Pretty sure anyone looking to buy a Camaro can find something in this lineup that fits. The Z/28 with an naturally aspirated LS7 simply puts the stamp on a great Camaro comeback.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but looking back on this evolution all I can say THANK YOU GM and deciples... you listened to the majority, held true to the name and nailed it. I seriously don't think you could have done it better (even if I was a deciple..) Guarantee I'd have more hair if I knew what the plan was all along though.

Now to decide if a Z/28 will be right for me.

How bout a special edition ZL1 with LS9 before we move on to the 6th Gen... (yeah us Camaro enthusiasts are never satisfied LOL)
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:19 AM   #186
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How bout a special edition ZL1 with LS9 before we move on to the 6th Gen... (yeah us Camaro enthusiasts are never satisfied LOL)


I'd never be able to afford it, but I'd sure enjoy watching videos of it.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:08 AM   #187
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A percentage of Camaro fans will just have to wait and hope there are improvements on gen 6. I thought the mailslot was distinctive on the gen 5 SS. It's the first thing I notice on the road. I don't recall reading that folks were asking for an extractor so that change came out of left field, to me anyway. I could understand if that were optional. Maybe the tail lights will grow on me in time, the wraparound just looks a little out of place. The Z/28 was turned from a car you could drive on the road, to a novelty. Sure, you have bragging rights on the track over anything Ford can throw in there. I'm sure a few people will pay to enjoy it a few times a year. I expect that the sales numbers will tell the tale.
These forums are here for fans to express their opinions, good & bad. We wouldn't all be here if we didn't like that car. Some people on here have an extremely immature attitude though. "If YOU DON"T LOVE EVERY CHANGE TO THE CAMARO YOU'RE JUST WRONG!"
That's a bit silly. Take the good with the bad, everyone else has to.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:25 AM   #188
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That was beautifully written, sir. You've truly inspired me. I can't wait until the day I can afford my "permagrin".
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:36 AM   #189
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So, ten years from now, are we going to have a similar thread discussing why the best engine on the 7th gen is a 4 cylinder turbo? Kidding, kidding

Regarding the redesign, what surprises me the most is how much better the changes work WITHOUT the RS package. The non-RS headlights (as seen on the Z/28) really complement the new front end. The non-RS taillights have a nice look to them as well. This was the main reason I disliked the mysterious pre-reveal reveal on that talk show. Overall, the design works really well and I'm excited to see a 1LE non-RS model in white. I expect it will look great...

I like the new tails in non-RS trim. I'd say the taillight shape has hints of gen 1, gen 2, gen 3, and gen 4 in it. Trapezoidal with a few gens having wrap-arounds on the corners:

Gen 1:


Gen 2:


Gen 3:


Gen 4:


Gen 5:
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:57 AM   #190
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Scott:

Very well written and informative per usual. It is the passion that you have for these cars and the people around you that makes you the wonderful guy you are. Upon seeing the GM photos and the posts from the debut, I revise my statement about the rear end. It, like most GM designs, has grown on me exponentially since that first glimpse that was shown on the Kelly and Michael show...which frankly did look God awful in the light they were shown in. Now that I can see the entire package as a whole, I feel the team did a wonderful job on the refresh and I really love that even the color palette has been changed. SO, I will sit down and have a plate of CROW for my comments on that e-mail to you regarding the refresh and the fact that I calmed down only after you told me to keep the faith for the 20,000,000th time and wait for the official reveal. For that, I will say:
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:09 AM   #191
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[PS: Could you please tell us on which track the Z/28 was 3 seconds per lap faster than the ZL1? Since I'll be tracking the *$%#*@ out of mine, I'd really like to know. Sorry to interrupt the positive vibe... ;-) ]
It was said it was at the GM Proving Grounds (Milford MI) so assume it was on the "Lutz Ring". 2.9 miles/20 turns

From an SAE paper on the WEB:

The Milford Road Course is a new 2.9 mi (4.6 km), 20 turn, configurable closed course with 135 ft (41 m) of elevation change, constructed at the General Motors Proving Ground in Milford, MI, USA. This facility provides a convenient and safe venue for engineers to evaluate vehicle limit performance over extensive combinations of vertical, lateral and longitudinal acceleration at a wide range of speeds. This paper discusses the vehicle dynamics aspects of the facility design, simulation and construction.

-Matt
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:13 AM   #192
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:19 AM   #193
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Sir, I have loved Camaros all my life. I graduated High School in 1990 and was infatuated with the IROC. Loved that car. When the 93 came out, the design blew me away. It was like you took the IROC and turned it into artwork with all the curves it had. I was so smitten with that thing. I bought a 93 Z28 (my insurance was more than the payment) and when I paid it off I bought a 1997 Z28. Then it was my Alpine White 2002 SS.

I have to admit I was SOOOO angry with GM for cancelling the Camaro and bringing out that truck looking thing (don't even know what it was called--don't want to know). I wrote off GM and purchased my first BMW.

Not that it was a mistake...wow, that little 128i was a great little car. Then someone gave me a ride in an M3 and I was sold. Here I could get my rear wheel drive Camaro fix in a car with seductive curves that always reminded me of that 4th gen (pre-98). I love my 2011 M3 and will NEVER let it go. The engine, as everyone here knows, isn't nearly as powerful as Camaro's biggest gun (or smallest gun either) but can sing a song like no other and move pretty fast while doing it. Its weight and build quality is amazing...thank you BMW.

I like the ZL1. It looks fabulous and is very strong but I never had much love for power adders. I prefer my cars to be au natural and as the nex gen M3 moves into the power adder direction of it's bigger brothers, I'm left looking for an awesome au natural car. Hence, the latest Porsche 911 GT3. I was heading into this direction up until the day you introduced the Z/28.

You have finally introduced the Camaro I need, the Camaro I want. As much as I love the looks of the 5th gen, it never gave me that same feeling as I had when I came home from a deployment and saw my first 4th gen car (Purple Pearl 93 Z28-I bought on sight and could never stop looking at it). When the ZL1 came out I was impressed, when the 1LE package showed up, you got my attention but I still wasn't convinced.

Now this...the mighty Z/28. It is back...with the slash mark too! Back to its roots, its heritage. You sir, have my FULL attention!! Au natural, no AC, no stereo/and carbon ceramics!! (I actually had to verify that with another webpage, I couldn't believe it--they're a 10K option on a 911 GT3)...3 second improvement over the ZL1? WOW!!

I have to admit I've been saving for the latest version of the 911 GT3. Car just wreaks awesomeness. I want to retire from the AF and spend alot of time on a track and I thought having a 911 GT3 would be a great way of enjoying it. Although it would, I would really prefer to be in a car that I've loved all my life. The car with the name that brings back great memories and can outperform some really awesome exotics (so you say).

I think Chevrolet and GM have finally pulled me back in and I have to say I'm proud to be back in the Camaro camp again (although I don't have one yet). Its nice to be home. Germany is an awesome place to live though I have to say. That frickin autobahn is something all us car guys have to experience.

So I will be waiting and saving for my 2014/15 Camaro Z/28. This time next year I will pull the trigger on a Camaro I haven't had or really loved since my 2002 SS. Not sure what color...

Will there ever be an Individual Program within GM, like BMWs, where we can pay extra for a color we so love that may not be available? Just thought I'd throw that out there. Thank you!!
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:20 AM   #194
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Scott,
Great read brother! I won’t bore you or the other many Camaro enthusiasts with why and when I fell in love with the Camaro. What I can tell you is I’ve owned both a 2011 RS IMB and traded her in for a 2012 2SS IBM (for obvious reasons…lol). I have a great deal of respect for the V6 model and have loved my L99! I chose this car to represent my love for the Camaro and the Navy Chief Petty Officer’s heritage and I can’t tell you how proud I am of this car. I believe you when you say your team has given their all to bring us the best Camaro today! Please keep up the great work and lets hurt some Mustangs!

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Old 03-31-2013, 08:25 AM   #195
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Fbodfather, I for one think you got this car right. I am not just impressed but deeply envious of anyone who manages to snag a Z/28. And I will be figuring out just how I can do that myself if possible without parting with my current car. You and the entire team should be proud of this one, it's an enthusiast home run. RESPECT.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:32 AM   #196
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When they brought back the Camaro in 2010, they did such a perfect and fantastic job it seemed there would be no room for improvement. They nailed it with this new Camaro and I personally could not imagine them doing it better or different.

I think the refresh may have come to soon because folks are still enjoying the previous models way to much. I don't dislike the refresh, it's not an improvement to me, it's just different.

There ain't nothing wrong with the current model. Nothing thing at all.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:35 AM   #197
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Reading through this and other ZL1, 1LE, Z/28 and yes even GT500 and Boss threads I am impressed with how many, like me, were brought back to American performance cars from German ones. Here's hoping cars like these never go away again.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:38 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Rob3D View Post
When they brought back the Camaro in 2010, they did such a perfect and fantastic job it seemed there would be no room for improvement. They nailed it with this new Camaro and I personally could not imagine them doing it better or different.

I think the refresh may have come to soon because folks are still enjoying the previous models way to much. I don't dislike the refresh, it's not an improvement to me, it's just different.

There ain't nothing wrong with the current model. Nothing thing at all.
Since the Camaro returned in early 2009 hasn't the Mustang enjoyed 3 refreshes? I believe For the first two 1/2 years Camaro outsold the Mustang every month, but last year several months the Mustang out sold the Camaro. Overall the Camaro barely beat the Mustang in sales last year indicating that it was time for a refresh. Whether you like it or don't like it if you never change the product people will get bored with it and sales will decline. It was time to do something and they did do something... Some just don't like what they did.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:42 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by NVmyZL1 View Post
Wait! You still have a blackberry?!
now thats funny!!!
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:47 AM   #200
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Scott, thank you for taking the time to post all of that info.

I still do not like the appearance of the rear but will withhold judjement until I see it in person.

After reading your post I do have a better understanding and appreciation for the decisions that were made regarding the "refresh".

The Z/28 is badass, period, congratulations and thank you for helping to make the 5th gen Camaro what it is, incredible!!
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