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Old 05-19-2013, 12:12 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
That is where I am in large disagreement. Id like to see GM prove this. Either way, someone will soon after the cars release
Do you think the zl1 would be quicker through the corners? How? What advantage would it have?
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:13 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
The thing is we (Z/28 guys) don't care to compare, only you guys are concerned about it.

This thread is titled COMPARING a 3 Second Gap and you say you are posting in here because you don't care to compare? Geeeezzuss..... I guess like Clinton, it all depends on what "it" is. IF you don't care, don't post. hehe.... gotcha.

Oh, you do care? My bad.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:14 AM   #157
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Then we see what happens on a "test lap".... not an endurance race.
Other than bench racing and silly bragging rights, who is going to care a about a single 'test lap' if it can't be done reliably and consistently? I guess the ZL1 guys that never take their cars to the track can say yeah, my car is just is fast or faster than your Z/28 around a track if I put on trofeos. People that do track their cars regularly understand how brutal it can be on a car and that fighting heat and keeping a car consistent/reliable is much more important than a one lap wonder car.

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Tires are very important but I think a lot of people are only focusing on what they want to.

This to me is much more important than just tires....

“We used the very best components in the industry to deliver uncompromised performance, lap after lap,” said Mark Stielow, Camaro Z/28 engineering manager. “We made nearly 200 changes to improve the track performance, which cumulatively make the Z/28 capable of 1.05 g in cornering. For perspective, with all other things, equal increasing maximum grip from 1 to 1.05 g can cut up to four seconds per lap.”

The Camaro Z/28 is the one of the first production cars fitted with race-proven, spool-valve dampers. Compared to a conventional damper that offers only two-way tuning for bump and rebound, a spool-valve damper allows four-way adjustment to precisely tune both bump and rebound settings for high-speed and low-speed wheel motions. The wider tuning range allowed engineers to dramatically increase the damper stiffness on the Camaro Z/28 without a significant change in ride quality. Additional chassis changes include stiffer string rates and suspension bushings for improved cornering response.
Sums up what I just typed above just as well.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:17 AM   #158
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That is where I am in large disagreement. Id like to see GM prove this. Either way, someone will soon after the cars release
They did, at the Milford Proving Gound.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:21 AM   #159
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The same thing can be said about strapping a blower on a 6.2. It's only a marketing decision, right?

GM engineers called for specific tire specs and the tires they are using met those.
Nope. Blower and associatted equipment adds weight and brings in the heat soak problem. Those are negative for tracking a car, one z strips down, the other z bulks up, each has a leg up in one aspect of road racing. Power versus nimbleness. Now give them the same tires and see which mods came out on top and by how much.
It is so adorable to see that the z28 has fans so faithful that they not only ignore the tire advantage, but deny it is an advantage.

Any two cars, owned by any two person, wanting to road race for the best times, will both pick the stickiest tires possible such that the winner shall be found by the merits of the car or of the driver. Given the same driver for both cars, only the merits of the car will be proven superior. I would like to see the merits of the car seen superior....either car.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:24 AM   #160
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They did, at the Milford Proving Gound.
Clever. I'll put winter snow tires on my car and summer performance tires on yours, we'll go race around a track. I bet you'll feel you won fair and square, right?
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:30 AM   #161
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"According to Mr. Wyndham's interview with John Fitzpatrick (LINK) the mysterious course where the z/28 proved to be 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 is the MRC, or Milford Road Course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham
The 1LE already proved faster than the Boss 302, which is no longer sold anyways. So were you competing with anybody with the Z/28, or did you just want to show off?

Let me put it this way. The Z/28, in our initial testing at the Milford Road Course (MRC) is three seconds faster than the ZL1. The ZL1 beat the GT500 there by three seconds. You can do the math from there…"






I really think it was supposed to be a slap in ford's face.... not the ZL1.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:30 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Nope. Blower and associatted equipment adds weight and brings in the heat soak problem. Those are negative for tracking a car, one z strips down, the other z bulks up, each has a leg up in one aspect of road racing. Power versus nimbleness. Now give them the same tires and see which mods came out on top and by how much.
It is so adorable to see that the z28 has fans so faithful that they not only ignore the tire advantage, but deny it is an advantage.

Any two cars, owned by any two person, wanting to road race for the best times, will both pick the stickiest tires possible such that the winner shall be found by the merits of the car or of the driver. Given the same driver for both cars, only the merits of the car will be proven superior. I would like to see the merits of the car seen superior....either car.

It's not our fault you can't grasp the concept that the Z/28 was built for maximum track performance with a VIN while the ZL1 was not. So you arguing that the Z/28 has a tire advantage and that isn't fair is not a rational argument.

I'm not ignoring the tire advantage. You are ignoring that they are two completely different cars.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:33 AM   #163
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Do you think the zl1 would be quicker through the corners? How? What advantage would it have?
Obviously you haven't experienced mag ride. For proof of its effectiveness, look where the zl1 places in ring times among more powerful, more aerodynamic, much (1000lbs) lighter cars, that have race suspension and awesome chassis. The ZL1 does not belong there with that company, physics defying mag ride version 3 proves itself. I have driven some of those cars and they all should be faster than the Camaro, any Camaro. It was just the mag ride that got it there with its ability to constantly and quickly adjust to changing track surfaces at the ring. Only way to make a.brick.faster is to make it stick better I guess.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:34 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
It's not our fault you can't grasp the concept that the Z/28 was built for maximum track performance with a VIN while the ZL1 was not. So you arguing that the Z/28 has a tire advantage and that isn't fair is not a rational argument.

I'm not ignoring the tire advantage. You are ignoring that they are two completely different cars.


I have been trying to say the same thing.... but you said it much better.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:36 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Nope. Blower and associatted equipment adds weight and brings in the heat soak problem. Those are negative for tracking a car, one z strips down, the other z bulks up, each has a leg up in one aspect of road racing. Power versus nimbleness. Now give them the same tires and see which mods came out on top and by how much.
It is so adorable to see that the z28 has fans so faithful that they not only ignore the tire advantage, but deny it is an advantage.

Any two cars, owned by any two person, wanting to road race for the best times, will both pick the stickiest tires possible such that the winner shall be found by the merits of the car or of the driver. Given the same driver for both cars, only the merits of the car will be proven superior. I would like to see the merits of the car seen superior....either car.
Stock for stock(except for tires, both wearing the same) the Z/28 would win. Even on 1 lap course, tires would not make up 3 seconds.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:38 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
It's not our fault you can't grasp the concept that the Z/28 was built for maximum track performance with a VIN while the ZL1 was not. So you arguing that the Z/28 has a tire advantage and that isn't fair is not a rational argument.

I'm not ignoring the tire advantage. You are ignoring that they are two completely different cars.
Hah. Still Same car. Broaden your horizon past your Chevy and your keyboard. M3, Z06, aventador, Italia, 911 turbo, and viper are different cars, modded Camaro gen 5's are modded camaros, whether modded by gm or by john q public. Same cars, one got race slick compound and one did not. That is fine. Not saying zl1 is better, never said that. Only said that if you want to compare lap times, give them both race compound or street tires. Pretty simple to comprehend, or so I thought. I see that some here see the logic and truth in that , some others cannot. I bet the "some others" just buy the cheapest tire available when you need replacements or you choose what tread pattern looks cool. Tires are just for driving to work on, right?
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:39 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Obviously you haven't experienced mag ride. For proof of its effectiveness, look where the zl1 places in ring times among more powerful, more aerodynamic, much (1000lbs) lighter cars, that have race suspension and awesome chassis. The ZL1 does not belong there with that company, physics defying mag ride version 3 proves itself. I have driven some of those cars and they all should be faster than the Camaro, any Camaro. It was just the mag ride that got it there with its ability to constantly and quickly adjust to changing track surfaces at the ring. Only way to make a.brick.faster is to make it stick better I guess.
Okay we'll that's an interesting answer, but its an answer I guess mag ride will overcome 300 lbs, higher COG, 200 (apparently) track tunings, spool valve dampers and GM engineers admission that the z28 is the superior track car. Okay man, I'll respectfully disagree and we'll see!
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:43 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
"According to Mr. Wyndham's interview with John Fitzpatrick (LINK) the mysterious course where the z/28 proved to be 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 is the MRC, or Milford Road Course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham
The 1LE already proved faster than the Boss 302, which is no longer sold anyways. So were you competing with anybody with the Z/28, or did you just want to show off?

Let me put it this way. The Z/28, in our initial testing at the Milford Road Course (MRC) is three seconds faster than the ZL1. The ZL1 beat the GT500 there by three seconds. You can do the math from there…"






I really think it was supposed to be a slap in ford's face.... not the ZL1.
Nice....Never saw the ZL-1 beating the GT500 comment until now....

I think that should un-ruffle some feathers....lol...
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