Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Classic Industries
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics

Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2013, 02:29 PM   #51
Angrybird 12
Retired, Cancer Survivor
 
Angrybird 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 CAMARO 1LT, 08 Vue, 14 Spark
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: J. C. Tennessee
Posts: 17,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
I'd like to know which model Covette is "purpose built" for the track only...
The C6R....
__________________
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!

Previous Camaros: 1974, 1979 and 2010.
Angrybird 12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:30 PM   #52
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
The C6R....
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:37 PM   #53
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I don't see any reason why one design decision can be viewed as a 'cheat', while others are 'fair'. GM could have used any tires they wanted for the Z/28 -or the ZL1. They made their choice for what they felt was appropriate for the car. Just as they made similar choices for all the other areas of the car. Are you going to complain that they made the Z/28 300+ lbs lighter too? Because thats going to impact its track performance as well. So to be fair, we should probably add 300 lbs of ballast to the Z/28 and then see how well it does relative to the ZL1. Although ... the ZL1 would then have an 80 hp advantage. Alright then ... how about we limit the boost on the ZL1 to bring it down to 500 or so hp. It would only be fair, right? And then we can give the Z/28 the standard steel rotors from the ZL1. And maybe replace the MR shocks on the ZL1 with the more conventional ones in the Z/28? Mix and match the aero kits from the two of them as well.

I bet if you did all that, the two would end up in a practical dead heat because damn near everything would be the exact same. And nobody wants to see that. The Z/28 is different from the ZL1 ... thats the whole point of offering both of them. If you want a kickass track car, then the Z/28 is for you. If you are more of a Grand Touring kind of person, then look no further than the ZL1.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:44 PM   #54
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
The C6R....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Just for giggles I looked up Laguna seca lap times for the ZR1 and the C6R...

2013 ZR1 = 1.33

C6R qualifying lap = 1.22

WOW



http://www.motortrend.com/features/laguna_lap/
http://www.alms.com/results/qualifying
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:53 PM   #55
90503


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 10,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Just for giggles I looked up Laguna seca lap times for the ZR1 and the C6R...

2013 ZR1 = 1.33

C6R qualifying lap = 1.22

WOW



http://www.motortrend.com/features/laguna_lap/
http://www.alms.com/results/qualifying
Any C7 times at Milford?
90503 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 03:02 PM   #56
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
Any C7 times at Milford?
Not that I have seen.
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 03:26 PM   #57
NightmareZL1
Can't stop ***ifying
 
NightmareZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: Ashen 2013 Gray ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Brain View Post
If they ran the same tires I would very much doubt the Z06 would lose. The Z07 package was an absolute monster and came in 3-4 seconds behind the ZR1 at Nurburgring.

So improving the tires for a 1 lap attempt. That Z/28 better be flying
Exacty. Anyone who has owned a C6 Z06 knows that the camaro, no matter how light, or modified, is just not in its league. Again, I love my camaro, but if I want real, no limitations performance, I'll buy another Z06 or a ZR1. This is a reality that these Z28 dreamers need to accept now, or the real world numbers of this "GM's Best camaro" are going to disappoint.
This is a point of annoyance, they claim that this car has been in the works for years...this engine already existed, the chassis already existed, the rest is bolt ons and tuning. Yet, GM hasn's posted Ring track times. obviously they are having a problem getting a ring time that validates the price and hype. So, they must be going back to do some more major changes $$$
__________________
Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp
NightmareZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 03:34 PM   #58
NightmareZL1
Can't stop ***ifying
 
NightmareZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: Ashen 2013 Gray ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I don't see any reason why one design decision can be viewed as a 'cheat', while others are 'fair'. GM could have used any tires they wanted for the Z/28 -or the ZL1. They made their choice for what they felt was appropriate for the car. Just as they made similar choices for all the other areas of the car. Are you going to complain that they made the Z/28 300+ lbs lighter too? Because thats going to impact its track performance as well. So to be fair, we should probably add 300 lbs of ballast to the Z/28 and then see how well it does relative to the ZL1. Although ... the ZL1 would then have an 80 hp advantage. Alright then ... how about we limit the boost on the ZL1 to bring it down to 500 or so hp. It would only be fair, right? And then we can give the Z/28 the standard steel rotors from the ZL1. And maybe replace the MR shocks on the ZL1 with the more conventional ones in the Z/28? Mix and match the aero kits from the two of them as well.

I bet if you did all that, the two would end up in a practical dead heat because damn near everything would be the exact same. And nobody wants to see that. The Z/28 is different from the ZL1 ... thats the whole point of offering both of them. If you want a kickass track car, then the Z/28 is for you. If you are more of a Grand Touring kind of person, then look no further than the ZL1.
No one said cheat. Tires are only tires. My only Issue with the ZL1 performance has been that I have too much power for the tires. It is a wear item that soon gets replaced, so soon all 2012, 2013 ZL1 track cars will be sporting better rubber. Just as many Z28 owners are going to want tires that last longer after that first set scrubs bald. Putting the came tires both cars will show which engine/chassis/suspension combo is superior. I am sure it will show that the Z28 handles a little better than the ZL1, but nothing earth shattering. Just look at the time difference at the Ring when GM used track tires versus street tires(ZR1/Z06) - HUGE difference. Tires do not make the car. GM did not engineer them. apples to apples - put same tires on both cars....
__________________
Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp
NightmareZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 04:13 PM   #59
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Yet, GM hasn's posted Ring track times. obviously they are having a problem getting a ring time that validates the price and hype. So, they must be going back to do some more major changes $$$
That's a pretty big assumption.

Maybe they were just there testing..... They have already stated they are not done developing the Z/28.
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 04:24 PM   #60
NightmareZL1
Can't stop ***ifying
 
NightmareZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: Ashen 2013 Gray ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 273
That's the issue, given the specs and parts are so great and such a big change as advertised, there isn't much more to change unless you start replacing panels in cf, balsa wood, or plastic. Not much more time to squeeze out. Why the long delay after the car hit the track and hit it hard. Something doesn't add up. I want this to be a sick ass car. But even stripped down of weight, there is no way to come near the halo cars. Color me dissapointed, so far.
__________________
Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp

Last edited by NightmareZL1; 05-17-2013 at 10:21 PM. Reason: grammar
NightmareZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 04:57 PM   #61
IOMZL1

 
IOMZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: 1991 Z28; 2008 SRT 10 Viper Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 920
Who cares if the Z/28 is faster than the ZL1 or Z06 on the track. I guess it better be, right? That's it's purpose. Some ZL1 and Corvette owners need thicker skin IMO. If they made a track only Vette of course it would be faster and no way the Z/28 will best the C7 Z when it comes out. If they put different equipment on the Z/28 or ZL1 or of they are modded of course the performance would change. Lots of argument for no reason IMO. Each car has its place, each car beats others in certain areas. Can't go wrong if you ask me.
__________________


Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand. Ignorance, prejudice, and fear walk hand in hand...

http://dougshelbyengineering.com/Viper.html
IOMZL1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:35 PM   #62
doc7000
 
Drives: 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lomita,CA
Posts: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
But the difference here is that in GT500 vs ZL1, the Ford had the 80 hp advantage and the 300 lb weight advantage giving it a substantial edge in a straight line. But vs the Z/28, the 80 extra hp has to move 300 lbs more car, reducing the impact of its power advantage (rather than enhancing it).
Sure, the ZL1 will still pull harder, but its not going to be as substantial a difference as it is between the GT500 and the ZL1.
ACtually according to GM the Z/28 Camaro has a better power to weight ratio then the ZL1 Camaro. So on no track should the ZL1 Camaro be able to beat the Z/28, the Z should smoke it everywhere.
doc7000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:48 PM   #63
NightmareZL1
Can't stop ***ifying
 
NightmareZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: Ashen 2013 Gray ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc7000 View Post
ACtually according to GM the Z/28 Camaro has a better power to weight ratio then the ZL1 Camaro. So on no track should the ZL1 Camaro be able to beat the Z/28, the Z should smoke it everywhere.
Nope. At speed your car is fighting air, not lbs. Same car, same basic shape, HP matters. And as far as the guy who said the vette had lift, the vette also has much, much less drag than our box shaped (because they are retro) cars. Look across many diff manufacturers, drag determines top speed, a lot more than weight. Any person who has taken a z06 to 190, will tell you how it goes from 100 to 175, with the effort it takes a Camaro to go from 20 to 70. After that the Camaro has a bitch of a time fighting drag. There is a video of a z06 with minor mods just smoking a zl1 with some big HP. The zl1 guys said the z06 must have had more mods, nope, the shape of the car is the trump card. The z28 will have corner advantage and exit speed on the zl1, as far as "smoke it everywhere"....doubt it
__________________
Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp
NightmareZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:55 PM   #64
Thrillz


 
Thrillz's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Charger R/T / 2012 Dodge Ram
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,548
Its a badazz camaro for sure with impressive track times but not sure if they are going to find buyers for it at the price point i'm reading..
__________________
Quote of the year, from 6.1hemi:
"I just wanted to type some junk cause I am having some beers and I really like cars."
Thrillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 08:40 PM   #65
Baltimorejohn1

 
Baltimorejohn1's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 1,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Nope. At speed your car is fighting air, not lbs. Same car, same basic shape, HP matters. And as far as the guy who said the vette had lift, the vette also has much, much less drag than our box shaped (because they are retro) cars. Look across many diff manufacturers, drag determines top speed, a lot more than weight. Any person who has taken a z06 to 190, will tell you how it goes from 100 to 175, with the effort it takes a Camaro to go from 20 to 70. After that the Camaro has a bitch of a time fighting drag. There is a video of a z06 with minor mods just smoking a zl1 with some big HP. The zl1 guys said the z06 must have had more mods, nope, the shape of the car is the trump card. The z28 will have corner advantage and exit speed on the zl1, as far as "smoke it everywhere"....doubt it
I'm glad someone realizes that.....
Baltimorejohn1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 08:58 PM   #66
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
That's the issue, giving the specs and parts are so great and such a big change as advertised, there isn't much more to change unless you start replacing panels in cf, balsa wood, or plastic. Not much more time to squeeze out. Why the long delay after the car hit the track and hit it hard. Something doesn't add up. I want this to be a sick ass car. But even stripped down of weight, there is no way to come near the halo cars. Color me dissapointed, so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimorejohn1 View Post
I'm glad someone realizes that.....
How can you be disappointed??? You and we know little to nothing about the final product!

There's wayyyyyy more to it (racing) than has been described. Wayyyy more.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 09:00 PM   #67
z28camaro2471
C5 Member #227
 
z28camaro2471's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 792
We can all agree that both the Z/28 and the ZL1 are faster around Milford than the Z71 can't we? All different vehicles with different goals.

z28camaro2471 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 09:12 PM   #68
GRAHL
workaholic
 
GRAHL's Avatar
 
Drives: 69 SS Lemans Blue
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vegas Baby!
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc7000 View Post
ACtually according to GM the Z/28 Camaro has a better power to weight ratio then the ZL1 Camaro. So on no track should the ZL1 Camaro be able to beat the Z/28, the Z should smoke it everywhere.
Yep. There will have to be plenty of loooong straightaways for the zl1 to try and make up ground.
__________________
GRAHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 09:12 PM   #69
ZLFUN
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Whitby Ontario
Posts: 4
Power to weight question

Hi all, my first post, and a little overdue. Got my 2013 CRT ZL1 coupe last August after a lengthy wait. (Killed me as I live about 4 miles from where they are built and watched them drive by for stripes all the time

Anyway, love the forum, and just had a question about the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc7000 View Post
ACtually according to GM the Z/28 Camaro has a better power to weight ratio then the ZL1 Camaro. So on no track should the ZL1 Camaro be able to beat the Z/28, the Z should smoke it everywhere.
Hmmm... 580hp/4120 lb = 0.1408 ZL1

505hp/3800 lb = .1329 Z28

Just wondering where you got the power to weight ratio information from GM... I have heard the z/28 would be about 3800 lbs.

To match the ZL1, the Z/28 would have to weight about 3590 lbs.

505hp/3590 lb=0.1407 That would be quite a diet

Anyway, can't wait to hear how she really goes. My Z is a blast, but there's no getting around the weight... they are a heavy car, and unless it's pretty hot outside, they can overwhelm the tires pretty easily trying to put the power down. The Z/28 will be a very interesting comparison.

PS for the vette guys: 505hp/3175 lbs= .1591 Z06

.... and for the bike guys my ducati 203hp/407lb = .4988 !!! (Get's worse with my fat backside strapped to it but still...

We are lucky so and so's aren't we.

Last edited by ZLFUN; 05-17-2013 at 09:13 PM. Reason: typo
ZLFUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 09:23 PM   #70
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,215
I prefer pounds per HP. We still don't know the Z/28's weight but it could be as low as 3,700. Also if we're talking RWHP the LS7 is as high as 480+ That's 7.7 lbs per RWHP. That's quite awesome.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 09:59 PM   #71
GRAHL
workaholic
 
GRAHL's Avatar
 
Drives: 69 SS Lemans Blue
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vegas Baby!
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I prefer pounds per HP. We still don't know the Z/28's weight but it could be as low as 3,700. Also if we're talking RWHP the LS7 is as high as 480+ That's 7.7 lbs per RWHP. That's quite awesome.
Everything about the car is awesome!!
__________________
GRAHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 10:03 PM   #72
90503


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 10,299
From what I've "learned" from you guys is that the hi-speed, aerodynamics isn't really that much of a factor on these on these cars for the type of tracks that are usually run...high end top speed is rarely reached and won't give the ZL-1 a real "advantage" there.....

Good to hear from ZL-1 guys though for a change....lol
90503 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 10:10 PM   #73
ZLFUN
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Whitby Ontario
Posts: 4
Not sure an engine can really determine RWHP... that is really transmission and drive train losses I would think. Don't know how the 3.73 rear end in the ZL1 would compare to the lower gears in the Z/28 for losses, but I can't imagine 480 RWHP on a 505 BHP rated engine. I could be wrong.

Anyway, good point on the ratios... lb/hp works better outside a spread sheet to be sure
580hp/4120 lb = 0.1408 or 7.1 lb/hp ZL1

505hp/3800 lb = .1329 or 7.52 lb/hp Z28

3590 lbs z/28 505hp/3590 lb=0.1407 or 7.1 lb/hp



Z06 Vette 505hp/3175 lbs= .1591 or 6.3 lb/hp Z06

ducati Panigale w/termis: 203hp/407lb = .4988 or 2.0 lb/hp !!! (Get's worse with my fat backside strapped to it (about 3 lb/hp but still...
ZLFUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 10:11 PM   #74
366250
 
Drives: 1970 Chevelle
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 10
Dear GM,

Please offer the LS7, with dry sump, and appropriate drive train as a Camaro SS or 1LE power train option.

Thank you!
366250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 10:15 PM   #75
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by 366250 View Post
Dear GM,

Please offer the LS7, with dry sump, and appropriate drive train as a Camaro SS or 1LE power train option.

Thank you!
While I would like to see it as a option it's more than likely not going to happen. GM's Fleet average (MPG) would suffer severely with loads of LS7's running around town.
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.