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Old 04-07-2013, 07:53 PM   #26
mattyjman
 
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Originally Posted by mikepage0007 View Post
we did similar build..same bit1 ..here is my build if u need any ideas that might help..http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=mikes+extreme
Thanks Mike... I actually used your log a lot when I was trying to decide what I wanted to build... having all the raw shots kept me from needing to dig into panels until I was ready.

I've used the bit one in every install I've done... love it.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:54 PM   #27
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SSIIIIIICCK
no, your car, sir, is SICK. You don't know how many times I've contemplated getting a blower because of you...
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #28
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Really really nice looking. On a side note, whose that model you "accidentally" posted?
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:45 PM   #29
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ok, got some bad news, some bad news, and some good news...

what do you want first???

so, today I pulled out the molds after letting them fully cure. it was a pain to get them out (when is it not ?!) but I was able to wiggle them out after some persistence. Gave them a nice trim, and this is what we have :







a shot of the woofer for comparo's sake:





so, the bad news...







there is no way I'm going to get 1.5 cubes net... I bet I have about a cube but that's it. I'll measure it when all is said and done to be sure, but I spent a lot of time trying to maximize airspace, but still fit behind the panels...

so, the second bad news...





so, this one isn't soo bad... but I got a little trim happy in the begginning... and I'm going to have to cut more so the speaker doesn't play into the panel. Oh, well... I'll find a way to make a cool grill out of this...

the good news...?

airspace for both enclosures appear to be the same... or very close to it. so, if I do have to run these sealed, I won't be dealing with differences in response due to differing airspace...

which brings me to my final thought.... how good are these going to be sealed?? from around 300hz on down to 60-70 hz... I hope i'm not disappointed after all this work...
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:50 PM   #30
darkrider01
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which brings me to my final thought.... how good are these going to be sealed?? from around 300hz on down to 60-70 hz... I hope i'm not disappointed after all this work...
Oh.....I'd say you can get plenty low...even when sealed.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:37 PM   #31
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Oh.....I'd say you can get plenty low...even when sealed.
these JBL drivers aren't subs... they aren't designed to really play below 100hz or so... they are pro audio drivers... like you would see in some cabs at a concert hall... if i was using subs, it would be a different story, but I also need these drivers to play up to 300hz or so, in order to mate with my Audax midrange drivers... they only have .5mm of xmax, so they can't play super low, but they have some of the best, most open midrange I've heard...
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:38 PM   #32
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alright... minor progress today since i'm back to work from my staycation this weekend...

got the grillcloth stretched, used CA glue to hold it down, trimmed it up, and then slathered on some resin.

this also marks to end of my first gallon of resin...

tomorrow i hope to have this all cured, so i can bring out my router and cut the speaker whole, measure with foam peanuts and figure out how much airspace I have...




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Old 04-11-2013, 12:24 AM   #33
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these JBL drivers aren't subs... they aren't designed to really play below 100hz or so... they are pro audio drivers... like you would see in some cabs at a concert hall... if i was using subs, it would be a different story, but I also need these drivers to play up to 300hz or so, in order to mate with my Audax midrange drivers... they only have .5mm of xmax, so they can't play super low, but they have some of the best, most open midrange I've heard...
I was just saying that you can go plenty low with sealed drivers. Is that .5mm or 5mm of Xmax?

I've been stalking your for sale thread for the AS300.2's on the other site. I even convinced my wife to let me buy them......but then when I really thought about it, I need an AS200.4 and an AS300.2. I have to keep my fronts active.

Solid build so far man. I'm glad there are peeps like you around that can remind me to stay away from SQ competitions.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:11 PM   #34
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alright, well...

the molds cured, so when i got home today, i quickly got out my measuring tape, marker, and drill bit and eagerly started drawing out the cut out and where i think the port tube should go.



pulled out the router and jasper jig and cut away



i decided to use dog food... it's cheap, and it fills up voids pretty easily...



and the moment of truth.... it's a 11x11x14 box... just about a cube...



it came out to be 8x11x14... anyone here good with math would tell you i'm not even close to my target. so some decisions have to be made...

i'm just not sure what to do at this point, nor am i sure where I can make up .3 cubes before port displacement. the whole point behind getting these behind the factory panels was to allow the seat back to fold down without running into anything. if i build this out further inside the car, then i lose the ability to fold down the seat. i'm not sure building it out in the first place will give me that .3 cubes anyway.

i could space the baffle out about an inch... maybe 2 ... but that's stretching it. but that would get me to the .75 cube target... i just get the sense that such a small volume will run me into problems along the way... not sure what, but i'm nervous to build it too small.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by darkrider01 View Post
I was just saying that you can go plenty low with sealed drivers. Is that .5mm or 5mm of Xmax?

I've been stalking your for sale thread for the AS300.2's on the other site. I even convinced my wife to let me buy them......but then when I really thought about it, I need an AS200.4 and an AS300.2. I have to keep my fronts active.

Solid build so far man. I'm glad there are peeps like you around that can remind me to stay away from SQ competitions.
.5mm xmax...

and i can sell just one as300.2

as for comps, i don't go, never had interest in that. i just want this to sound like the concerts i go to. conventional drivers just don't deliver the visceral impact i need in my car... and do it well.
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:17 AM   #36
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ok, slight departure from the midbass mess... need to clear my mind on that so I'm starting on the doors this weekend.

got home tonight, and took off the door panels before it got dark. the inserts in the panels are gray and drab, and I'm just not feeling it. so, while the door panels are off, I removed the inserts and covered them as well as the linear trim that goes along the dash in 3m DiNoc Carbon trim.

Here are the doors from the factory...



with the panels removed:



and after covering them...



the goal for tomorrow is to deaden the outer door panels, inner panels, door card, line the door with ccf, mlv, and the door card with thinsulate, and build out baffles for the audax midranges...

if all goes well, by the end of the day we'll have it all buttoned up and ready to move on... back to figuring out the midbass enclosures.

stay tuned
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:20 PM   #37
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soooo close to hitting my goal for the day... if I could actually mix resin right then I would have been set... I'll explain in a bit..

so, the goal today was to deaden the doors, add, mlv and ccf, and then thinsulate the door cards. make the baffles for the door speakers, wire everything up, install the audax speakers, and then button it all up.

so close...... awww

so, early this morning, I took the inserts that I removed, and then reattached them to the doors with a combination of ca glue, and hot glue (the panels were originally secured with melted plastic posts.

once i was done with that I set to deadening everything...

from the materials I got from Don, I allocated 1 CLD tile and Thinsulate for the door card, 2 CLD tiles for the inner door skin, and 6 CLD tiles for the outer door skin. And then of course whatever was needed for mlv and ccf...

here is the door with the panel off:



and with the vapor barrier removed:



this is how much deadening comes from the factory:



it's thickness is far less than 1mil total... with the aluminum sheeting barely more than tinfoil, and the rubber solution being as minimal as possible. I have significant doubts on it doing anything at all...

Here is the door panel with 1 CLD tile cut up into pieces:



and then with thinsulate:





for the doors themselves, I started first with Butyl Rope in the open space between the internal reinforcements and the door panel.



and then with the inner and outer door skins deadened



this made a dramatic improvement in the subjective "door panel "tap" test"

and finally, after much fussing with the mlv, ccf, and velcro, I have my noise barrier in place:

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Old 04-13-2013, 09:21 PM   #38
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turning my attention to the baffles, i trimmed the door cards a bit where there will be some contact with the audax drivers... although a 6.5" driver, the outer diameter is 7.5 inches, so it makes for some tight clearances with the door card.

I made 6 rings, with 3/4" birch ply. I'm going to decouple the rings from the door panel with butyl rope. Since that will also be the main adhesive, I drilled two bolt holes in the door panels and in the first ring for each baffle, I counter sunk a bolt in each side to match. This was secured with ca glue and wood glue combination.





then i proceeded to laminate the remaining two rings together with wood glue and a series of clamps





after that dried sufficiently, I mixed my batch of resin and slathered away... this is to protect the rings from moisture, so I don't have to worry about wood rot or warping in the event that water comes into contact with the rings



had the rings cured in time... I would have had the speakers in and wired, door card back on, and ready to move on...

oh well, tomorrow I'll just have to do double the work.








.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:57 PM   #39
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finally... got the speakers in and wired up, doors in and buttoned up. what a pita. seriously. if the speaker rings would have been any bigger they wouldn't have fit.

so...

started by throwing some butyl rope on the rings... i didn't use a lot ... i see people use a lot, and i think it's a waste honestly... all you need is a small layer to keep the rings from the solid door, and the rope is damn sticky...



i attached each baffle this way, and then sealed around the outside edges again, with more butyl rope..



then with both speakers installed:





and then with the door back on: (this was a huge pain... i don't ever want to take these doors off again )






and finally, since it's all back together, I can show you the integrated trim now. from left to right:





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Old 04-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #40
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double post
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:47 PM   #41
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Been following your build over on diyma. Good stuff so far. Curious to see how you are going to finish up the front stage.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:22 PM   #42
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well, you're in luck, i'll be posting pictures of that in a second...
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:31 PM   #43
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Nice. I'm getting everything together to tackle my build. Starting with a big order from SDS and I may break out the fiberglass and fill all those big holes in the door.

Looking forward to the pictures!
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:04 PM   #44
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alright... i'm soo happy today...

with the amount of progress I made today... I surely didn't think all this was going to be possible...

so, with the front midranges installed and ready to go, I turned my attention to the mounting of the horns... and i hate installing horns.

i mentioned earlier that there are two things I absolutely detest in this hobby, and that's deadening cars, and hanging horns.

so, with the dread of today in front of me, i went to work patiently, and thoughtfully, looking for the best solution.

first off, a thing about the horns. there are a lot of horn bodies out there, and out of the ones that I've used, I prefer to use the minihorns from Eric Stevens, as they are what I consider the most "install friendly" horns I've seen. they are small, the angle of the neck allows them to get fairly wide without any modifications, you can push them back pretty far out of the way.

so, first thing is making sure i have horns that are easy to install. second is weight. heavy horns are a bear to hang... which is one of the reasons why i went with the bms 4552nd Neo compression drivers... they are small in size, and they don't weigh very much. third thing is magnet pains. if you've hung horns, then you know every time the compression driver comes into contact with sheet metal, you're in for a wicked fight to get them loose.

so, this is why I came up with these. i'm sick and tired of scratching the horns, and them pulling towards every metal piece in the car. simple diy fix for this is to use some scrap ccf, and a zip tie... and voila... you have a protective sock for the driver.



after looking around for quite some time at possible mounting locations and hanging solutions I settled on one that would be the easiest, and the most effective.

most people will use backstrap, and hang it from a post within the dash... and then attach it to the front of the dash with more strap... it all leads to a pretty flimsy solution.

now, in my location hunting, I found out that i could get the side horn mouth within 3/8" of the body metal. the little indent in the kick panels allowed me the extra room. so i trimmed to bodies way down... but i made sure i did so with a strong 90 degree angle.
(again, trimming the bodies, getting rid of the unnecessary fat, allows me to have have extra feet room as well... which is important when i'm driving.)

so, I decided to fab up some brackets that will allow me to attach the horn at the mouth.. and because of the way that the horn is designed, almost all of the weight is placed on this bracket as well... eliminating my need to use any other install points.

here I'm drilling three holes per horn:



and i'm countersinking the inside so i don't have bolt heads sticking out:



i used two pieces of aluminum in this install. one that attaches to the horns and the bracket, and the bracket that attaches to the body of the car. i drilled three holes to coincide with the horn mount as well as the body mount.



then I attached the horn bracket. now, with horns, you want the inside to be as smooth as possible. countersinking my bolts caused a bit of a problem with that, but not one that i hadn't anticipated. with my new found love of CA glue, i angled the horn in a way that the countersunk holes were horizontal .. and then filled each to the top with ca glue and used the accelerator to cure it. now, it's like i didn't even cut into the horn



it was important that nothing stuck out of the bracket, so it wouldn't influence the way that this bracket would mate with the one in the car. i trimmed off the excess threads on the bolts that were securing the horn bracket.



after using some self tapping screws and some patience in lining everything up, here is what we have:



nice, level, and sturdy.

i repeated the same thing on the passenger side:



on the passenger side, the glove box makes up part of the underside of the dash. consequently, it also has a hinge that was getting in my way, and so I decided to remove it. in this picture you'll see it trimmed down on the left side:



and some final pictures for you... (mind you I still need to address the wiring in the kick areas and reinstall the factory kick panels ... that will be for another day. )

view from the passenger seat:



and a little bit lower:



view from the drivers seat (say hello to my legs )



and a little bit lower:








i love horns. i hate the process of installing them. this was, by far, the easiest solution that I have found, but still abiding by conventional horn aiming techniques.

i love how they are hidden from complete view, and how they can present a huge stage with depth to spare, good height and width, and most of all, dynamics.

i fully intend on telling people my system is factory because unless you knew better, you really wouldn't be anyone the wiser.

i still have a few things to address, like creating a few underdash panels, the kickpanels, etc... but all in all, i got a TON done today and I'm super stoked about it.

edit: oh, I guess I should add, that even my size 12 feet don't have a problem with the clutch pedal... another reason why i like the mini's ... they stay out of my way
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:59 PM   #45
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not much install love from you guys out there... ?
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:06 PM   #46
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looks like Christmas came early boys...



nice packaging technique...



all the flak on forums about the wait time for AE subs... came in under the quoted timeframe for me.





these things are beasts... I'm SOOOO stoked.

here's a sign of things to come -



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Old 04-15-2013, 11:38 PM   #47
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I'm not a audio guy.... But this is an awesome build.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:20 AM   #48
darkrider01
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I'd love to hear this in person some day. I've learned a lot just from following this build.
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My amplifier pop/click/thump solution thread
Power Mods * K&N Typhoon CAI, Flowmaster American Thunder cat-back exhaust, Hurst Short Throw Shifter Visual Mods * Black Phantom Grille Suspension Mods * BC Racing Coilovers * Lakewood Strut Tower Brace
Audio Mods * Stinger SPP 2250 Battery * Pioneer DEX-P99RS * Pioneer AVH-X7500BT * Scosche Dash Kit * 2 - Mosconi AS200.4 * 2 - JL Audio 13W6v2 * Focal 165KRX2 Power (active) * Mosconi Gladen One 240.2 * Rockford Fosgate Power T1692
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:28 AM   #49
was619
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Well after reading through this awesome build all I can say is that I love all of it except for the firing direction of your subs.(trunk pass through) al though it does make the most sense to have them there.
Keep up the great work and would love to hear some specific reviews on whether the sound deadening techniques(layers used) works well or not. I have a friend who ripped his entire interrupt out just like you did, put down a layer of dynomat everywhere and was less than impressed with the results saying that it only improved the audio a little and out side noises are still the same.
Please let us all know if it helps reduce out side noise as well as helps your new audio setup!
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:27 PM   #50
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I'm not a audio guy.... But this is an awesome build.
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I'd love to hear this in person some day. I've learned a lot just from following this build.
thanks guys... i'm glad y'all are getting something out of it... if nothing else, i like to go back and see the whole process from beginning to the end ... it makes me appreciate what it takes to really get good sound ... you can slap some gear in, even really expensive gear, but the install is where systems are made or broken. i've heard very cheap systems that are installed thoughtfully sound way better than an install of very expensive equipment that was just slapped together.
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