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Old 04-17-2013, 02:54 PM   #51
mattyjman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by was619 View Post
Well after reading through this awesome build all I can say is that I love all of it except for the firing direction of your subs.(trunk pass through) al though it does make the most sense to have them there.
Keep up the great work and would love to hear some specific reviews on whether the sound deadening techniques(layers used) works well or not. I have a friend who ripped his entire interrupt out just like you did, put down a layer of dynomat everywhere and was less than impressed with the results saying that it only improved the audio a little and out side noises are still the same.
Please let us all know if it helps reduce out side noise as well as helps your new audio setup!
subs are going to be installed in an IB configuration... otherwise known as free air, so they have to be installed this way... besides, there really isn't any better solution for 15's in the trunk anyway.

as for the deadening... there is a right way and a wrong way to approach this. first is understanding what tools to use.

your friend who dynamated his entire car used the wrong tool to achieve his desired result.

dynamat, or the CLD tiles I'm using, are for vibration damping, not noise or sound isolation. you need a noise barrier for that.

cld - constrained layer dampener - panel resonances and vibrations
mlv - mass loaded vinyl - applied properly, this is what keeps road noise out, as the sound waves can't penetrate the mlv. if you make a seamless barrier around the entire inside of the car, this is pretty effective at quieting the car. it isn't total however, as there is glass, and certain areas that you can't treat.
ccf- closed cell foam - decoupling device used between the sheet metal and the mlv - keeps vibrations from getting through to the mlv and interior
thinsulate - acoustic material developed to absorb noise

these are all the things i used and why. all this is to quiet road noise and exterior noises that come through the car. however it doesn't increase the quality of the sound... it will never do that.

this is a pretty oversimplified version of car deadening, but you can quickly see why layering the entire car with dynomat won't achieve the results someone is looking for. that's why i have only gone for 25% coverage ... any more and it's just a waste.

hope that helps.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:15 PM   #52
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That's a great help! I will reference this thread when I go to buy the various products you mention.
I can see why you need multiple layer as well. Seems like the reason why he didn't think he got much out of it.
Thanks man!
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:45 PM   #53
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if you really want a more in depth explanation, check out this site:

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

it's where i ordered all my stuff, and Don (the owner) is really a helpful guy... good business.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:02 PM   #54
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Are you at the point where you know how much excess sound deadining materials your going to have?
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:44 PM   #55
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Are you at the point where you know how much excess sound deadining materials your going to have?
unfortunately, no.

i still have the back seat, deck, rear quarter panels, and the entire trunk to do. I'm thinking i'll probably have 10-15% excess, but it's too early to tell.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:28 PM   #56
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Cant wait for the update!
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:08 PM   #57
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well, the biggest update doesn't really come with pictures.

i'm scrapping the work i've done on the quarter panels. i can't get the airspace i need. i've been trying to figure out how to build some internal airspace that could mate up with the boxes, but it would be tough to do all that inside the body of the car.

so, i'm starting over. this time, with no thought towards removing the finished enclosure. 75% of it is going to be inside the car, and 100% of it will be behind factory panels, so there is no need to build a removable box. none.

so, i'm starting over, this time maximizing the airspace i'm using, by fiberglassing directly to the body panels, and utilize a lot of the internal airspace i was able to open up by trimming the metal. instead of trying to work with .7 ft/3 airspace per midbass driver, i should be able to get close to 2 cubes... which will allow me to drop my port tuning and maximize the flexibility of these speakers

so, i'm starting on that this weekend. i need to relocate the battery to the driver side of the trunk, relocate the factory amp to the spare tire tub, and make sure all the wiring works there.

then i'm going to focus on getting the trunk done with all the deadening so i can start on the IB wall, and amp rack.

finally, finish up the kicks so i can put back the factory plastics around the horn bodies, and fix up the wiring.

i obviously won't get all of this done, but the plan is to get started on most, and finish some. its all about managing time, working on other things while fiberglass is curing, etc...

stay tuned... it's going to get a lot more messy before it looks stock again
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:36 PM   #58
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You just wasted a good explanation right there
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:36 PM   #59
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^ ? huh?
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:44 PM   #60
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to revisit something i started earlier on... the amps. Remember I started pulling off the finish... want the 200.4 amps to match the A Class?

So, here we are, with the paint scraped and just a few minor areas to deal with before finishing the amp



i'm looking for some info on how to get the finish the mirror the A-Class. How do i get a nice brushed look. Plus it seems like i need to polish the amps in some way as well, since the regular aluminum is all discolored and not matching.

ideas on how to finish these?


alternatively, I have some left over DiNoc Carbon trim... I'm not much for sticking stuff on vinyl, but these amps don't seem to rely heavily on the external area of the amp, as the heatsinks inside aren't even connected to the amp shroud...

i took a random piece, laid it down... looks kinda tight... plus it could tie in my sports car theme... whatch'all think?

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Old 04-20-2013, 08:30 PM   #61
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ok, not much progress to post, but a lot of time spent...

still trying to figure out how to do the mids to capitalize on airspace, but still make the install well, install friendly

the pics won't show it, but the cavity up, down, and towards from the front of the car is seemingly endless, and i was trying to figure out how to seal it all up so i can make a box.

certain compromises had to be made in order for this to not be incredibly complex, so I went with ease of install over allowable airspace.

first up was to seal off the top portion. i cut a couple of ply planks that would fit, and sandwiched them up there with some butyl rope. The rope was just to get them to stay up there... when i fiberglass and milkshake, that combo will make them immovable.

on the b pillar rail side, i took foam/cardboard and sealed up the areas that i could, same for the rear of the car moving towards the trunk. what i couldn't seal up in these three areas, I used some expanding foam to do the rest, and i'll glass over (or milkshake) over everything to ensure strength and a complete seal.

here's the plank in the top:



i didn't really have any good shots of the inserts and expanding foam, but you'll see it in other photos...

once i sprayed that down, waiting for it to cure I turned to the interior portion of the car. i rough cut a shape for each side, slid it behind the factory panel, and started using dowels to space it out the maximize airspace.



on both sides, most of the trim piece is almost completely flush with the panel... just enough room for a layer of ccf to keep tings from vibrating incessantly.

here we are after the panel is removed:



and then, needing to come up with some way to get fiberglass from the trim piece to the car metal, i used cardboard and tape to lay a foundation.





this whole process took a quite a bit of time. of course, the mundane stuff always does.

i know it doesn't look pretty, but this won't be seen, and i'm not looking to score points. functionality is key here, and i think this will work for me.

as for "what" i am going to glass... the fender wall, the trim piece to the factory metal, the front and back internal spaces where i used cardboard/foam, and seal in the top wooden piece... that's it. everything else is as strong as I would normally make it. Everything will get a heavy dosing of 1/4 chop strand, filler, and resin mix to make sure it's airtight and everything is equally coated and strong. then probably add some cld tiles throughout to hopefully keep any sort of possible enclosure resonances down.

by my estimation, i don't think i'll quite make it to 2 cubes each, but i think i'll at least hit my 1.5 cube target after displacement.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:30 PM   #62
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no votes on the amps?
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:07 PM   #63
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Have you come up with a way to secure the battery on the driver side? I plan to build my amp rack to work in the spare tire tub.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:03 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyjman View Post
no votes on the amps?
Warning: I'm old-school and detest faux-carbon-fiber. It makes things look cheap IMHO.

Please don't cover up those beautiful amps. if anything, give them a high-polish or get them powder coated flat black. I hate the flat-black-everything cars too, but a flat back Mosconi amp might look sick.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:48 PM   #65
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Its long and probably over kill but it could get you on track.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:16 AM   #66
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Warning: I'm old-school and detest faux-carbon-fiber. It makes things look cheap IMHO.

Please don't cover up those beautiful amps. if anything, give them a high-polish or get them powder coated flat black. I hate the flat-black-everything cars too, but a flat back Mosconi amp might look sick.
normally i am too, but ... ooops



i've got an idea to replace the mosconi logo, so i gotta put that in the works. honestly, i think it looks awesome in person. yes, i know, it's not real carbon fiber... but... you can't say this amp doesn't look good... especially in person

Last edited by mattyjman; 04-21-2013 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:47 AM   #67
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posted up on another board, but keep a option open top opening trunk lid manually...you will not be able to crawl thru backseat and use manual opener, and these electronic trunk releases don,t work forever
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #68
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posted up on another board, but keep a option open top opening trunk lid manually...you will not be able to crawl thru backseat and use manual opener, and these electronic trunk releases don,t work forever
Hmm......this sounds like experience talking. Looks like I have some work to do.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:59 PM   #69
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normally i am too, but ... ooops



i've got an idea to replace the mosconi logo, so i gotta put that in the works. honestly, i think it looks awesome in person. yes, i know, it's not real carbon fiber... but... you can't say this amp doesn't look good... especially in person
Eh....I'll give it to you. It does look good.
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Audio Mods * Stinger SPP 2250 Battery * Pioneer DEX-P99RS * Pioneer AVH-X7500BT * Scosche Dash Kit * 2 - Mosconi AS200.4 * 2 - JL Audio 13W6v2 * Focal 165KRX2 Power (active) * Mosconi Gladen One 240.2 * Rockford Fosgate Power T1692
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:52 PM   #70
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ok, not much to show here, just mid progress shots. i got 2-3 layers of chop all the way around the enclosure. i haven't done anything on the inside portion of the enclosure yet.

getting stuff on the top was a mighty pain in the ass. for anyone that could benefit, what i found works best for me was to work other areas first, and wait for the resin to start to gel up a bit, then tackle the portions that needed to be done upside down. this kept my brush from dripping resin as much as if the batch was fresh.






ended the day checking to make sure everything cured...

i pulled off the cardboard where i could to expose the fiberglass underneath so i could determine where we were at, and to give me different access points for future glassing, namely the top of the enclosure where it would be easier to fiberglass down as opposed to upside down.

as you can see, i still have some work to do. i'll probably thrown down a few more layers (2-3) of chop everywhere, and then finish it up with a final layer of kyntex, to ensure strength.









this project was supposed to move along a lot quicker than it is... goal was to have it done by the end of this month, so I could turn my attention to fixing up my house to get it ready to sell in June. Looks like I'm falling behind, but I'll deal with it.

I can believe that I've had to start over three times now on the midbass pods... if it wasn't for that, then I would be a lot close to finishing. However, I'm sure the results will be well worth the work, and be nothing less than stellar... that's the hope at least
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:38 PM   #71
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murphy,s law, this ain,t overhaulin..lol
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:25 PM   #72
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so, yesterday i'm complaining about how long this is taking me...

today i decided to do something about it. i work quite a bit, and normally feel too tired to bust out some more work when getting home. tonight i got home at 6, and while not much can be done in 1 hour, it's one less thing that i need to do later

i masked up a few areas that i was going to be glassing and didn't want to get messy, and took to it ...

i laid down 1-2 layers of chop on the top and around the back side of the top of the enclosure... the parts that's harder to get inside the enclosure, and then laid up about 2-3 layers of woven mat on top of the chop to finish it out. the rest of the enclosure can be strengthened from the inside, so that's what i will do next.

left and right sides .... so purrty...





no holes, no gaps, and i'll make a sludge mix when all is done and slather the inside for final strength.



last night i also finished wrapping the 2nd AS 200.4, and need to order some more carbon wrap for the A Class and the remaining pieces of the install that I'll be trimming out.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:55 AM   #73
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Wow that is a lot of serious work! It's coming along really well, but man I'd be pretty nervous about glassing right over those wire harnesses. Needless to say if there is ever a wiring issue it would be near impossible to get to without tearing out the fiberglass.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:49 AM   #74
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^ yes true... but how often do you have a "wire" issue where you need to replace wires that are in a bundle? its normally not a wirin bundle that goes bad... at least that was my thoughts.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:30 AM   #75
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Wow that is a lot of serious work! It's coming along really well, but man I'd be pretty nervous about glassing right over those wire harnesses. Needless to say if there is ever a wiring issue it would be near impossible to get to without tearing out the fiberglass.
I was thinking the same thing about wiring. If it was me i would have protected it with tape or a foil something so you can still get the contour tightly, but are still able to get it out. even if you mix your resin too hot it can melt your wires.
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