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Old 04-24-2013, 09:07 PM   #76
mattyjman
 
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^ no matter what, the wiring bundle is not going to be accessible, as the enclosure is fiberglassed directly to the car, so none of this was a concern. in addition, the wiring bundle is loose and is not glassed, with the exception with the entrance and exit from the enclosure.

everything is working fine, so i know the wires didn't melt.

i admit, it's not very "repair" friendly, but nor is any part of this enclosure. if i had to do it again i would have protected it "just in case", but again... i didn't see it, nor has it become, a big issue.

Last edited by mattyjman; 04-25-2013 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:29 PM   #77
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ok, still not much to do as i make meager progress with the midbass pods.

i layed down a healthy amount of layers of kyntex to the inside portion of the enclosure... this is a much thicker mat and allows a quick, strong build up, but it suffers in formability. lucky for me, formability isn't much of an issue since the panels are flat for the most part.

on the passenger side, i did the back wall first, and then the sides to the left and right of it. i repeated the same on the drivers side but was only able to get the back wall done before it got dark. i think i may have about 4 oz of resin left, enough to do the side walls tomorrow.







(looking at this made me laugh... made me remember just how far I've come in my install ability. the g35 was my first real build, but i knew nothing then ... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/904799-post109.html )


so, with there only being a bit of resin left before I'm completely dry, I placed an order last night for some goodies... looks like i'll need to take a departure from the pods and focus on some other areas....

this weekend, I hope to be able to start addressing some of the trunk pieces... amp rack, IB wall, bitone mount, and battery relocation... and of course, i still need to do mlv and stuffs back there.

making progress. slow and steady wins the race.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:35 PM   #78
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Looks good man, Rome wasn't built in a day...
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:00 PM   #79
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minor update, since today is friday... just got the drivers side walls done. 3 layers of kyntex each...





quick note about expanding foam - it dissolves slowly with resin... luckily not fast enough to be a worry in this case, but i thought it was interesting to note.

so, tapping around on the exterior panel was fun... all around it sounds like it should, flimsy sheet metal with nothing around it... then you get to the enclosure, and you get a satisfying thud.

with the exception of the mud paste i'll be applying, this marks the end of the fiberglassing of the inner midbass tubs

NOW I can say I'm making progress...
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:25 PM   #80
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Update?
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:36 PM   #81
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sure, i got the other amp wrapped





and a "guts" shot for any electronics geeks




other news, I'm waiting on my order of replacement resin to finish up the midbass pods.

and I'm outsourcing some metal fab work for the trunk.

tomorrow I drop the car off at a buddies shop, and he'll be doing the fabrication for the amp rack, bitone rack, and battery replacement rack...

while he has it, he'll be cutting the kicks, and i'll be moving my midrange speakers to the kick area (i'd do it myslef, but i figured if he's got it, why not ) ... this should improve depth and decrease path length differences so I don't have to use as much eq and time alignment to get good staging for both passengers. width will be increased as well, since i'll be recessing them "in" to the kick panel area about 1/4" ... this will be outside of the boundaries of the a-pillars... so if the staging is done right, i should get a stage wider than the physical boundaries of the car

i'm also getting tint done at the same time, and upgrading the battery to a Stinger battery...

once that is returned to me, I'll resume work and hopefully within another week or so, have everything wired up at least.

finishing work on panels, amp rack, kick panel areas will take a while, but I'll at least have a functional stereo while i'm doing that.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:50 AM   #82
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I'm assuming you have some quality recording stuff as well. If you do could you record the sound when your finished with your install?
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:26 PM   #83
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i don't actually... never really thought you could capture the same experience over video so i've never tried. i'll definitely post up my listening impressions though
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:03 PM   #84
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so, minor update but i'm so stoked that i can't wait for more pictures. my buddy Jon, from Handcrafted Car Audio in Mesa, is working on the metal fab portions I mentioned earlier.

Looking at the (almost) final for the amp rack I realize now just how challenging I made it, and he came through like a champ There is NO way I could have taken what I wanted to do, and done it with my woodworking skills... metal fab was the only way to go.

more to come and more pieces to display, but here's a teaser until I get it all back.

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Old 05-05-2013, 07:58 PM   #85
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Well, I think we should just make this my Midbass enclosure build... all it ever seems I work on, however, after getting the car back late afternoon yesterday, I set out to cover 2 days worth of work into 1 today... made what I would consider considerable headway to completion of my midbass project. as soon as this is over, I feel like the rest of the project will snowball to completion pretty quickly.

so, many of you were mentioning concern over the bundles that the box covers... i wasn't, however, I was concerned about this module, and where exactly I was going to put it...





now i've messed with wiring and solder, but never took the time to actually relocate something, which I determined is what I needed to do. last night, I took to prepping some wires. didn't take long, but I cut 16 wires, same length, tinned the wires, and then added 2 tubes of heat shrink onto each wire.





this morning, first goal was to get this module relocated as fast as possible... ended up taking about 3 hours ... fast or slow, i don't really now... but it's done and it works, and the car can drive... that's all that anyone can ask for...

first, i drilled a hole in the bottom of the midbass pod... good chance to look at thickness and it's not bad at all... more thick than I thought.



unwrapping the wiring protection, this is what you see... 16 wires... different colors and combos except 4 wires, which I labeled on both of the sides of the harness



already having disconnected the negative on the battery, I still snipped each wire individually. I had a bad experience once with wiring, when i snipped a positive and negative wire together and it shorted something... who 'da' thunk it.



i threaded the bundle and a speaker wire for the driver through the 1" hole I drilled...



i tinned each wire individually, then joined the wires together...



at this point, i just killed it and kept working, no more progress pics for you.

at completion, i wrapped the whole bundle with electrical tape, and also wrapped a bit with ccf, where it slides through the enclosure.



threaded the wires under the enclosure and into the trunk area, where I temporarily have mounted the module. this will be the final resting place, but i plan on making a more permanent mount.



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Old 05-05-2013, 07:58 PM   #86
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once that was completed, it was time to turn to the final portions of strengthening the enclosure, and prepping it for the top.

first up was to take care of this mess... i used expanding foam but it wasn't something i really wanted to fiberglass over since it was all bumpy, so I started making a sludge mix.

cabosil, play sand, and resin...





and then started to reinforce and seal up any possible air leak areas...





one area i was particularly concerned with was the spot where the glass joined up with the outer ring. I ran this mix all around, squeeging in any missed spots and sealing up any possible air pockets. this should strengthen the joints as well.





this took quite a bit of time for some reason. but after that was all set, I left it to cure, and turned to making the trim rings for the 2206h midbasses and fabbing up some ports.

the picture in my head I couldn't make a reality, so I'll have to rethink how I'll be refinishing this. my plan was to flush trim the speakers and the ports in, but there wasn't enough width for a wider trim ring of both the speaker mount and the port. this will do, and I'll fab up a cool cover for it to compensate for the change in plans.

after routing out the rings, I added some wood inserts. I'll be using the wt3 woofer tester to make sure my enclosures have the same airspace, so i don't have a different tune, which will mean i'll be taking out the speaker often enough to make these a necessity. plus, it's just nicer. strong, secure, and not cheaply installed.



and then my 4" ports. I used a roundover bit on the top and the bottom of the ports to keep "chuffing" down (if it will even exist)



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Old 05-05-2013, 07:58 PM   #87
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the sludge mix cured fast, and hard as a rock...

returning to this right after i made the ports and baffles, I threw down some final deadening, just for good measure. I have no idea if it will do anything, but it set me at ease, so whatever.



on both sides, i stapled grill cloth around the opening of the enclosure. initially i was planning on stapling on the inside, splitting the baffle in half essentially, but it was tough as nails getting staples in, due to some extra glass in some areas. i bit the bullet and just went around the outside...



then placed my rings and ports where i wanted them, and used a few scrap pieces of wood to secure them in place, flushing them with the rest of the trim.

i planned it this way so that I could reinforce the visible side of the enclosure, as well as the rings, so this was the way to do that.





and after my initial resin job... i got some resin behind the rings to aid in adhesion... it doesn't look pretty, but it doesn't need to. none of this will be seen and i will all be covered with the factory plastic panels.





and that's it, guys... i'm taking the rest of the night off, and will start up tomorrow after work again... gotta get this done.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:52 PM   #88
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only an hour and half of light once i got home, hurried up, changed, and got to it. man was I excited to see a fitment picture... like my goals are finally, finally, being realized.

here you go... blam



this took 15 minutes to cut out the inner, and remove the brackets, and make sure everything was secure enough.

then, on to glassing... i have no idea how many layers i did, but it was many... enough to lose count, but if i had to take a guess it's 4-5 in most areas.





as for strength... i should have gone with a baffle board. however, i don't see strength being much of a concern here. the speaker rings are sandwiched inbetween the wood frame, and only have a small crack in between each side. I'll fill this with the sludge mix, and the baffle for the speaker will be hard as rock.

same with the ports.

then that leaves all the other area... which, when you look at it, is pretty minimal. every piece has a slight curve to it, one way or another, so it isn't exactly flat... and after digging for an hour huffing the fumes, I don't think a number of layers on here is going to be much work at all. strength won't be an issue when i'm done, and that will be here fairly soon.

appreciate all the comments guys... i'm looking forward to showing you what else my brain has thought up of for the rest of the install. and they won't take nearly as long either... hahaha
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:18 PM   #89
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just came back from the gym, giving my pods a double shot of steroids

two layers of kyntex, and 2 layers of chop... I'd say they'll end up pretty darn strong now.





i think next up will be adding a few wooden rods as was suggested, and filling out the rest of the panel with the sludge mix to get in all the cracks that i haven't been able to.

once that is complete, i think it's on to measuring the enclosures and getting the response even... so close, i can taste it
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:22 PM   #90
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Sleep is overrated! Get it finished!
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:11 PM   #91
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haha, i know right !
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:12 PM   #92
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oh, and in case anyone was wondering what fitment looks like so far behind the panels, here's a shot for you.

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Old 05-11-2013, 09:23 PM   #93
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not much to show... my frustration got the best of me today so i quit early, but i did get the midbass panels finished.

i need to measure them to ensure correct airspace and tuning per each enclosure, but we are officially done with them... minus some spray paint and minor sanding...

two braces per enclosure :





and i used a combo of 1/4" chop strand, cabosil, and resin to fill in the fronts... sturdy as a ****ing rock now





just gotta do some minor sanding, a texture coat, and then build the trim that goes around the panel and i'm good to go !!!!

this saga is OVER. Now it's on to other things
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:32 PM   #94
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Likely off topic, and excuse my lack of stereo knowledge, but wouldn't a smaller speaker have solved the "cabinet" size issue? I mean, that appears to be like a 12" speaker (which is the size of my sub), but yet you keep calling these "mid bass" cabinets. So what (and I understand there are many factors involved here) determines the operating frequency of a speaker?
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:34 AM   #95
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I'm not an expert but I think it's the frequencies that the speaker was built for.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-range_speaker

To sum up the article a midrange speaker is for things the human ear is most used to hearing.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:46 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightwarrior View Post
I'm not an expert but I think it's the frequencies that the speaker was built for.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-range_speaker

To sum up the article a midrange speaker is for things the human ear is most used to hearing.
I know the basics (or thought I did anyway). You can put any frequency range into any speaker. How well it reproduces the signal, will depend on the speaker size and design.

I guess my confusion lies in the speaker size. You usually see large (ie: 10"+) speakers used as subs (low frequencies). For midrange and the upper bass frequencies, I'd expect to see a 6"-8" speaker.

I guess seeing the component breakdown will help clarify a bit.

And it's not that I'm questioning the OPs ability to design a stereo system. I'm just trying to understand and learn why.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:55 AM   #97
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Can't wait to see it all finished!!
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #98
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Quote:
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I know the basics (or thought I did anyway). You can put any frequency range into any speaker. How well it reproduces the signal, will depend on the speaker size and design.

I guess my confusion lies in the speaker size. You usually see large (ie: 10"+) speakers used as subs (low frequencies). For midrange and the upper bass frequencies, I'd expect to see a 6"-8" speaker.

I guess seeing the component breakdown will help clarify a bit.

And it's not that I'm questioning the OPs ability to design a stereo system. I'm just trying to understand and learn why.
3 things:

1. Speakers are like engines, there is no replacement for displacement. The OP wants to try and reproduce every frequency as accurate as possible.

2. There is nothing out there that states a subwoofer is 10" plus, a midrange is less than 10", etc. It is all in the design of the speaker.

3. A smaller speaker doesnt also mean it requires a smaller enclosure. I can take 2 15" subwoofers, one works best in a 1-2 cubic ft box, the other works best in a 5-6 cubic ft box. Same goes for everything. I have seen 10" speakers require much bigger enclosures than a 15".


It all comes down to the design of the speaker, be it the motor structure, FS, RE, RS, Xmax, materials, the list keeps going.

Whatever the manufacturer was trying to meet it dictated the speaker needed to be this big, needed to have this much xmax, needed to work in this type enclosure, etc.

I am no means an audio expert, but just hoping this might help you in the learning process.
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:02 PM   #99
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welll guys, it looks like an end to the saga is very very close.

sanded down the enclosures a bit, where the rough stuff was, blocked it off and sprayed it a bit for uniformity, and then installed a port grill on the rear of the ports ... i intend on using some polyfill and i don't want that chuffing everywhere when i'm driving

i'm on my way to get a laptop ... ex took mine and i've been meaning to get one anyway, and then will be testing... goal is to have this in and installed ready to go by the end of the day

after sanding, ready for paint...




after spraying came the grills. just used some grill gloth and secured with a wire tie around the tube.






i know this whole things still looks like shit, but again, none of this will be seen. i just sprayed it down and sanded so the whole thing didn't look like utter crap
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:15 PM   #100
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Quote:
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Likely off topic, and excuse my lack of stereo knowledge, but wouldn't a smaller speaker have solved the "cabinet" size issue? I mean, that appears to be like a 12" speaker (which is the size of my sub), but yet you keep calling these "mid bass" cabinets. So what (and I understand there are many factors involved here) determines the operating frequency of a speaker?
great question Jim... probably a ton of people are thinking the same thing... my install isn't following any of the "conventional" wisdom when it comes to car audio...

a smaller speaker would have solved the problem, sure... but at what expense? my goal is life like dynamics. like, picture going to a concert of your favorite band... it doesn't just "sound" good, it "feels" good too. you are feeling the visceral impact of the music, the dynamics. when the drummer hits the snare drum, you feel it. not just the low notes, but all of the notes, across the frequency spectrum.

i'm interested in replicating that in my car. and as was mentioned above, just like engines, there is no replacement for displacement. think about it... for you to feel impact, air has to move. in order for air to move, there has to be a diaphragm pressurizing the air. how well will a 6.5" speaker do that? not very well....

as for what determines the speakers operating range... many things. i don't quite understand it all well enough to explain it either, but just because it's a 12" speaker doesn't mean it's going to play down to 20hz like your sub... quite the opposite actually.

the JBL midbass speakers I am using are typically used on Pro Sound speakers, the same ones at concert venues, and is normally coupled with a horn and maybe another midbass/midrange speaker.... at prosound venues, these speakers probably don't play below 150-200hz... that's what they have big horn loaded 18-21" sub cabinets for .

these aren't designed to play super low, but in a car environment, where the listening levels won't be as high as a venue, I'm able to get a usable frequency response down to 70hz or so, where my 15" subs will be taking over to fill out the bottom end.

like i said, what i'm doing certainly isn't conventional. but once you hear a system like this, you simply can't go back to what is conventional. something's missing... and it bothers you.

here's a shot of my BMW (i traded for the camaro) ... I had 10" prosound midbass drivers in my kicks... it was simply stunning... and the impact was righteous

12" midbass in the kicks wouldn't have been possible in this car, so I utilized the space behind the front seats. hope that answers your question










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