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Old 06-13-2013, 07:55 AM   #101
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You recommend 1 7/8 or 2" for my car.?

2011 LS3 SLP TVS2300 Supercharger
Street Driven- Never Raced...but still looking for good power.

Thanks
If you had 1 7/8 before the supercharger they would be sufficient and I wouldn't push anyone to spend the money swapping, but 2 inch will make more power especially in a FI application.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:48 PM   #102
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If you had 1 7/8 before the supercharger they would be sufficient and I wouldn't push anyone to spend the money swapping, but 2 inch will make more power especially in a FI application.
Im currently running factory manifolds.
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:03 AM   #103
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I have a separate write up I am working on for stepped headers. It is one of those topics that has a lot of variables and is hard to write about without either going too long or doing the opposite and over simplifying.

Thanks.
Hey Chase - how is that write-up coming along? I also see the new posts by PFadt about the Tri Y headers. That is all new to me - last headers I did were on an '80 Z28 and I think things have changed some since then. Can someone shed some light on the differences between standard, vs stepped, vs the Tri Y header?
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:25 AM   #104
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Im currently running factory manifolds.
2 inch for sure then. No reason not to.

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Hey Chase - how is that write-up coming along? I also see the new posts by PFadt about the Tri Y headers. That is all new to me - last headers I did were on an '80 Z28 and I think things have changed some since then. Can someone shed some light on the differences between standard, vs stepped, vs the Tri Y header?
It is about 70% done. I think I am going to combine that with some Tri-Y info and make it an update to this article.
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:20 AM   #105
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Looks like other vendors are taking my tech articles, changing a few words, and calling it their own. Funny.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:30 AM   #106
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Yeah......but we all know you started the tech articles. Just stick to what you are doing. This group is collectively a pretty savvy bunch. I wouldn't sweat it.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:18 AM   #107
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Looks like other vendors are taking my tech articles, changing a few words, and calling it their own. Funny.
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Yeah......but we all know you started the tech articles. Just stick to what you are doing. This group is collectively a pretty savvy bunch. I wouldn't sweat it.
Not sweating it at all. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery then obvious plagiarism must be an off the charts compliment. I guess when you have no technical understanding of the products you sell you are forced to try passing off other people's knowledge as your own.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:26 AM   #108
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Yeah I just saw that as well
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:28 PM   #109
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Looks like other vendors are taking my tech articles, changing a few words, and calling it their own. Funny.
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Yeah I just saw that as well
indeed
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:31 PM   #110
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:22 AM   #111
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Just installed my CAI! Thanks Chase
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #112
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Chase are you going to do a write-up about Tri-Y headers?
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:28 PM   #113
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:56 PM   #114
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Chase are you going to do a write-up about Tri-Y headers?
Below is a new section discussing Tri-Ys that has been added to the opening post. Let me know if you guys have any other questions so that I can add to it if necessary.




Tri-Y Headers

Pfadt recently announced that they are releasing Tri-Y headers for the 5th Gen Camaro and since then we have been inundated with questions about this type of design. Traditional 4-into-1 long tube headers merge all four primary tubes into a single collector similar to the one pictured below.




Tri-Y headers utilize a different approach. These headers feature three Y-pipes that merge the runners in pairs. Because of this they are sometimes also referred to as 4-into-2-into-1 headers. The Pfadt Tri-Ys are very elegant and because of that the differences are difficult to see in photos so below is a very rudimentary set of Tri-Y headers and a set of traditional 4-into-1 long tube headers below that for comparison. You can see that there are three separate events rather than one as is the case with a traditional 4-into-1 long tube headers.





Now that you know what Tri-Y header are, the question is what is the difference from a performance perspective. The commonly accepted theory is that 4-into-1 long tube headers offer stronger peak horsepower gains, while the Tri-Y headers produce stronger low and mid-range torque gains (ideal for street performance).
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:26 PM   #115
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Chase, great info and thank you! I understand it fully now.

The only thing I can suggest is to add a "conventional header" picture, with the same vantage point, as the tri-y's(the second picture). I think it would be easier for the new folks to see the difference, IMO.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:11 PM   #116
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Selecting long tube headers can be an intimidating task and does require some technical knowledge, but it isnít the voodoo some make it out to be. In this post I will try to arm you with as much information as I can to help you decide on the best option for you and your ride. If you have any questions after reading it feel free to send me a PM or give us a call at the phone number in my signature.


Which Manufacturer Should I Go With?

The good news here is that this is hard to get wrong. Ask around on the forums and you will hear some of the same brand names over and over again. Stick with brands like Stainless Works, Stainless Power, Pfadt, ARH, and Kooks and you will be fine. From a performance stand point all of these brands are pretty close, no one has a secret sauce that makes one of them produce substantially better results than any of the others. In terms of quality, again, most of them are pretty close in this area as well. If you are looking at other brands though here are some of things to pay close attention to.

Pay attention to what they are made from. Stainless steel (particularly 304) is what you will want to look for. 304 stainless steel will not rust or discolor from exposure to the atmosphere like the cheaper 400 series stainless steel. Unlike aluminized steel, it will not rust from the inside out due to the corrosive fluids produced during combustion. 304 can discolor slightly from getting extremely hot or if you spill engine oil on them but another attribute is that it isnít permanent.

Pay attention to how they are made. CNC mandrel bending is the best manufacturing method for producing exhaust systems and headers that flow and fit well. When this process is used in conjunction with the 304 stainless steel it allows for the use of a thinner wall tubing that will weigh less than other headers. Those weight savings will be lost, however, if you opt for ceramic coating. With 300 series stainless steel the coating isnít needed for corrosion resistance purposes (ceramic coating is often pushed because the manufacture is using inferior material) and I have never seen some of the claimed reductions in under hood temperature scientifically demonstrated in hard numbers. It looks great and they cool off quickly, that is about the sum of it.


What Primary Diameter Should I Go With?

This is the area that seems to cause the most confusion but it is fairly straight forward. Header manufacturers usually offer two or three options when is comes to primary diameters for a specific vehicle. For example, for the Camaro SS most manufacturers are offering 1 3/4 inch, 1 7/8 inch, and 2 inch primaries. Below are some pretty typical numbers for what you can expect from traditional 4-into-1 long tube headers on an otherwise stock SS:


Stock: 370 RWHP 375 RWTQ
1 3/4 headers with high flow cats: 400 RWHP 405 RWTQ
1 7/8 headers with high flow cats: 410 RWHP 410 RWTQ
2 headers with high flow cats: 415 RWHP 410 RWTQ


As you can see, simply switching from the restrictive stock manifolds to 1 3/4 long tube headers is worth approximately 30 RWHP and 30 RWTQ on a bone stock Camaro SS. The larger the primary diameter gets the more air the headers will flow and the further up the RPM range the power band is moved. The more powerful the engine is the more beneficial it is to go with a larger diameter, especially when you introduce forced induction. This means that generally the more power you make or the more race oriented your application is the bigger primary diameter you need, the closer to stock or the more street oriented the smaller primary diameter you need.


Tri-Y Headers

Pfadt recently announced that they are releasing Tri-Y headers for the 5th Gen Camaro and since then we have been inundated with questions about this type of design. Traditional 4-into-1 long tube headers merge all four primary tubes into a single collector similar to the one pictured below.




Tri-Y headers utilize a different approach. These headers feature three Y-pipes that merge the runners in pairs. Because of this they are sometimes also referred to as 4-into-2-into-1 headers. The Pfadt Tri-Ys are very elegant and because of that the differences are difficult to see in photos so below is a very rudimentary set of Tri-Y headers and a set of traditional 4-into-1 style long tube headers below that for a direct comparison. You can see that there are three separate events rather than one as is the case with a traditional 4-into-1 long tube headers.





Now that you know what Tri-Y header are, the question is what is the difference from a performance perspective. The commonly accepted theory is that 4-into-1 long tube headers offer stronger peak horsepower gains, while the Tri-Y headers produce stronger low and mid-range torque gains (ideal for street performance). However, at this point it appears that the new Pfadt Tri-Ys are producing stronger gains across the entire RPM range so that calculus may be changing.


High Flow Cats or Cat Delete (Off Road Pipe)

With modern high flow cats there is essentially no performance advantage to a cat delete. They flow 99.9% as well as straight pipe. On a dyno you might see 1-3 rwhp in the mid RPM range. Going with a cat delete does cost less but the biggest draw back for street driven cars in my opinion is the smell of running without cats. Others are the potential legal issues and the inability to pass emissions testing and inspections. For track cars none of these are a concern so save the money and apply it elsewhere but if your car is used primarily on the street high flow cats are probably your best bet.

What an awesome thread. A lot of people just look at headers as a way to get rid of exhaust restrictions....they forget about the importance of the geometry on scavenging. Keep up the good work, its great to see a vendor taking some time out of their day to make a valuable addition to the forum
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:28 PM   #117
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Chase you just saved me from annoying a lot of people... lol
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:51 AM   #118
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Chase you just saved me from annoying a lot of people... lol
^^Truth!^^ Not to mention alot of time spent on Google!
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:43 PM   #119
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Chase, great info and thank you! I understand it fully now.

The only thing I can suggest is to add a "conventional header" picture, with the same vantage point, as the tri-y's(the second picture). I think it would be easier for the new folks to see the difference, IMO.
Good idea. Done.

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Chase you just saved me from annoying a lot of people... lol
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^^Truth!^^ Not to mention alot of time spent on Google!
Glad it helped. That is why I write these threads.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:54 PM   #120
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What an awesome thread. A lot of people just look at headers as a way to get rid of exhaust restrictions....they forget about the importance of the geometry on scavenging. Keep up the good work, its great to see a vendor taking some time out of their day to make a valuable addition to the forum
Thanks.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:42 PM   #121
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What an awesome thread. A lot of people just look at headers as a way to get rid of exhaust restrictions....they forget about the importance of the geometry on scavenging. Keep up the good work, its great to see a vendor taking some time out of their day to make a valuable addition to the forum
Thanks, will do.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:37 AM   #122
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Glad it helped. That is why I write these threads.
Awesome Chase - thanks so much. So, if I am understanding what you wrote correctly the Tri Y design will produce more HP gains in the lower and mid RPM range? The new Pfadt's may be producing more gain through out the entire range to boot?

Since these will be more expensive the question then is are these gains real world gains you can notice, or just a few HP to boost bragging rights waving a dyno sheet around? I saw something on CAI's once and they said you'd need about a 10% or more HP gain to notice a difference. Not sure how accurate that statement is, but it was out there.

In any event, I plan on doing headers next season for sure. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for more about these. They do sound like they offer some advantages.
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:24 PM   #123
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Awesome Chase - thanks so much. So, if I am understanding what you wrote correctly the Tri Y design will produce more HP gains in the lower and mid RPM range? The new Pfadt's may be producing more gain through out the entire range to boot?

Since these will be more expensive the question then is are these gains real world gains you can notice, or just a few HP to boost bragging rights waving a dyno sheet around? I saw something on CAI's once and they said you'd need about a 10% or more HP gain to notice a difference. Not sure how accurate that statement is, but it was out there.

In any event, I plan on doing headers next season for sure. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for more about these. They do sound like they offer some advantages.
Correct. Tri-Y headers typically produce more low-mid range torque and horsepower while long tubes produce more peak HP. Price wise, the Pfadt headers are in line with the brand name American made long tube headers that are available so there is no reason to bother with that line of thought. I would not agree with the assertion that you will not feel anything less than a 10% gain. You will certainly feel that big of a gain but if it takes that much for you to feel it you do not know your car very well.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:52 PM   #124
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I was answering a question in another thread and snapped a quick photo of a Kooks (top), Stainless Works (middle), and ARH (bottom) drivers side header for comparison sake. Though this might be a good place to post it as well.


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Old 07-01-2013, 05:02 PM   #125
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I think this is the most constructive thread out here.....
It is very simple but interesting to see the three headers laying next to each other....
They are different in many ways....

Then I looked at Texas Speed and yet another design.....
Very interesting.....
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