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Old 04-22-2013, 08:46 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
If you really believe that you are going to be VERY VERY surprised when the Z/28 starts posting lap times.
believe me, there are a lot better option for track cars than the 70k z28.....ariel atom.....
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:49 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja View Post
I don't think it's so much that they will make better track cars so much as many of them will be legal for actual competition racing. That and that along is why GM has a small window to fit with this car. The Z/28 will more than likely not be sanctioned... Unless GM really wanted to try and go out if their way and get it sanctioned...
its not legal for competition racing...it will need a roll cage. and much more....
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:53 AM   #173
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I think what he's trying to say is that when someone starts comparing something slightly used versus something new is like comparing apples to oranges. The old doesn't have the benefits of the new in regards to things like warranty, for example.
sure it does. every car other than my ss has been used and still retained a full warranty.... the z28 will not be able to compete in any races right off the show room floor. it needs much more to it to make it a true race car. that being said, were looking at track day cars for fun. in this category under 70 k....that opens up all kinds of doors. id rather buy a new spec Miata and race it than a z28......
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:54 AM   #174
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Sorry but maintenance on that Z will be right there with the Porsche
yup! and id rather drive the Porsche.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:57 AM   #175
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yup! and id rather drive the Porsche.


Lol, just kidding.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:06 AM   #176
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My dealer told me $64,485. Also told me my blinker fluid was low and my muffler bearings needed adjusting. Also does anyone know what a duofluctometer is? Apparently mine's in need of replacing.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:11 AM   #177
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You've obviously never owned a Porsche...
Nope. Never owned one. I'm purely speculating here. If I'm wrong ill say I'm wrong.

But as I and others have stated, if you're looking to ACTUALLY race and compete for money, sponsorship ect. There's plenty other classes out there for the price ppl are saying you'll pay for this "Race car." In my eyes, it makes no sense to price it near other very street able track performers. I think perhaps they will, but you're just paying more for the rarity and nastalgia of the car and not so much of the track race car it's purpose is built for. I'm not saying the car won't perform well or that if it was a cheaper price than what will probably be asked that I wouldn't own one. Logic is that this being a race car, it should be in the top 5 street driven track cars. Nothing less. After all it was purpose built meaning it should annihilate 80% of the street cars on the track. Right? At least until auto makers up their game on their track cars to make it an even race again or even out perform it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:24 AM   #178
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well put wizard
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:52 PM   #179
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60-65k MSRP. Leaning more towards 60-62k
I will agree with that!
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:10 PM   #180
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a GTR is by no means a dedicated track car, yet it will destroy a Z28...no doubt in my mind.
Plenty of doubt in my mind and I've been running SCCA Time-Trials against a GT-R for three years. What's your track experience again? My expectation is to run faster laps than a GT-R.

Furthermore...GT-R in hot weather will run maybe a couple laps at 8/10's or more before it overheats and goes into engine protect mode. At which point it becomes a rolling chicane. With all the extra coolers, there is no reason the NA Z/28 shouldn't run strong all trackday long.

I don't give a crap about a one-lap-wonder, I want a trackday car that will run all day long and then drive it home.

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believe me, there are a lot better option for track cars than the 70k z28.....ariel atom.....
Ariel Atom is a very fine track car choice! "Light is right" and the cheap cost to run it is a beautiful thing.

But it is a 180 degree difference from a romping stomping hand-built, high-revving torque monster 427 engine in a car with huge brakes and professional level damping.

Some of us will enjoy both experiences for the unique joys each has to offer.

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yup! and id rather drive the Porsche.
And some of us who have been driving Porsche's (GT3's) are looking forward to Z/28 ownership. Grass may not be as green across the fence as you think it is. Hope you have a mighty fat wallet to pay the running cost of that Porsche. A GT3 on average will cost you $3000-4000 per track day. $3000-4000 per hour if you are consistent 8/10's+. Not including the event fee, insurance and/or any mechanical failures, agricultural excursion damage, or contact with other objects.

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Originally Posted by Wizard1183 View Post
But as I and others have stated, if you're looking to ACTUALLY race and compete for money, sponsorship ect. There's plenty other classes out there for the price ppl are saying you'll pay for this "Race car." Logic is that this being a race car, it should be in the top 5 street driven track cars. Nothing less. After all it was purpose built meaning it should annihilate 80% of the street cars on the track. Right?
Jezus guys, the Z/28 is not a race car. It is a track day car. If you don't understand the difference, then please figure it out. Apples/oranges. I am not being ugly or making a personal attack, but please understand the meaning of the terminology you are using.

Race car is not a Trackday car.

It will run faster laps on a road course than 95% of other street cars in OE trim vs OE trim. Watch and see.

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Old 04-22-2013, 07:28 PM   #181
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Plenty of doubt in my mind and I've been running SCCA Time-Trials against a GT-R for three years. What's your track experience again? My expectation is to run faster laps than a GT-R.

Furthermore...GT-R in hot weather will run maybe a couple laps at 8/10's or more before it overheats and goes into engine protect mode. At which point it becomes a rolling chicane. With all the extra coolers, there is no reason the NA Z/28 shouldn't run strong all trackday long.

I don't give a crap about a one-lap-wonder, I want a trackday car that will run all day long and then drive it home.



Ariel Atom is a very fine track car choice! "Light is right" and the cheap cost to run it is a beautiful thing.

But it is a 180 degree difference from a romping stomping hand-built, high-revving torque monster 427 engine in a car with huge brakes and professional level damping.

Some of us will enjoy both experiences for the unique joys each has to offer.



And some of us who have been driving Porsche's (GT3's) are looking forward to Z/28 ownership. Grass may not be as green across the fence as you think it is. Hope you have a mighty fat wallet to pay the running cost of that Porsche. A GT3 on average will cost you $3000-4000 per track day. $3000-4000 per hour if you are consistent 8/10's+. Not including the event fee, insurance and/or any mechanical failures, agricultural excursion damage, or contact with other objects.



Jezus guys, the Z/28 is not a race car. It is a track day car. If you don't understand the difference, then please figure it out. Apples/oranges. I am not being ugly or making a personal attack, but please understand the meaning of the terminology you are using.

Race car is not a Trackday car.

It will run faster laps on a road course than 95% of other street cars in OE trim vs OE trim. Watch and see.

Well damn, not trying to be sarcastic but isn't the track made to race? And it's sole purpose, the track? It just happens to be a street legal car. Ls7 is a race engine. And many ppl on this very board have been calling it a race car which is why I use the term. And yes OEM vs OEM, it should outperform 95%. It better! We shall see.

I agree with one thing, it's made to race all day without fade or heating up.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:53 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Wizard1183 View Post
Well damn, not trying to be sarcastic but isn't the track made to race? And it's sole purpose, the track? It just happens to be a street legal car.


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Jezus guys, the Z/28 is not a race car. It is a track day car. If you don't understand the difference, then please figure it out. Apples/oranges. I am not being ugly or making a personal attack, but please understand the meaning of the terminology you are using.

Race car is not a Trackday car.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:30 PM   #183
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Plenty of doubt in my mind and I've been running SCCA Time-Trials against a GT-R for three years. What's your track experience again? My expectation is to run faster laps than a GT-R.

Furthermore...GT-R in hot weather will run maybe a couple laps at 8/10's or more before it overheats and goes into engine protect mode. At which point it becomes a rolling chicane. With all the extra coolers, there is no reason the NA Z/28 shouldn't run strong all trackday long.

I don't give a crap about a one-lap-wonder, I want a trackday car that will run all day long and then drive it home.



Ariel Atom is a very fine track car choice! "Light is right" and the cheap cost to run it is a beautiful thing.

But it is a 180 degree difference from a romping stomping hand-built, high-revving torque monster 427 engine in a car with huge brakes and professional level damping.

Some of us will enjoy both experiences for the unique joys each has to offer.



And some of us who have been driving Porsche's (GT3's) are looking forward to Z/28 ownership. Grass may not be as green across the fence as you think it is. Hope you have a mighty fat wallet to pay the running cost of that Porsche. A GT3 on average will cost you $3000-4000 per track day. $3000-4000 per hour if you are consistent 8/10's+. Not including the event fee, insurance and/or any mechanical failures, agricultural excursion damage, or contact with other objects.



Jezus guys, the Z/28 is not a race car. It is a track day car. If you don't understand the difference, then please figure it out. Apples/oranges. I am not being ugly or making a personal attack, but please understand the meaning of the terminology you are using.

Race car is not a Trackday car.

It will run faster laps on a road course than 95% of other street cars in OE trim vs OE trim. Watch and see.

ive had some track time in my short racing life. obviously there is no swaying votes on the die hard z28 fans... but when it comes down to it, this car is still heavy and not the perfect idea of a camaro track car. gm will get it right on the next smaller platform. but this one is to shut up alot of the naggers about the true track car...of which this still isnt really.... sure other cars have high repair rates and cost to drive... dont you think this car will? believe me after pounding on those ceramic brakes all day.... its gonna be an expensive fix. there are many other cars that can be had for true racing and be well under this cars price. gm is advertising this as their " track car"...well its not... its a track day car that has no other purpose but the occasional lapping day..... its not good for the street..... and for its price, not going to be great for the track.... id rather buy a new z06. much more capable on the track and street.

and like you said" track day car" . that being said, the ariel atom is the best bang for your buck oin a track day car. not a 70K camaro....
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:34 PM   #184
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how is this so hard for people to understand?

The ZL1 is ALREADY up there with porsche's, R8's, z06 (standard), ferrari's, ariel atom 3, etc... LOOK at the lap times. Nurburgring lap times. VIR lap times.

and the z/28 is to be advertised to be 3 seconds faster around a 3 mile course... which puts it ABOVE all those high dollar cars up there ^.

even at 80k, with those numbers, this car will still be bang for buck. give me some cars that you think will outperform the z/28 at that price range. new for new, stock for stock. no monster miata BS, i even have a hard time with people trying to compare the ariel atom to a full size car with seating for 4 too... we all know that these are apples to oranges comparisons.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:37 PM   #185
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ive had some track time in my short racing life. obviously there is no swaying votes on the die hard z28 fans... but when it comes down to it, this car is still heavy and not the perfect idea of a camaro track car. gm will get it right on the next smaller platform. but this one is to shut up alot of the naggers about the true track car...of which this still isnt really.... sure other cars have high repair rates and cost to drive... dont you think this car will? believe me after pounding on those ceramic brakes all day.... its gonna be an expensive fix. there are many other cars that can be had for true racing and be well under this cars price. gm is advertising this as their " track car"...well its not... its a track day car that has no other purpose but the occasional lapping day..... its not good for the street..... and for its price, not going to be great for the track.... id rather buy a new z06. much more capable on the track and street.

and like you said" track day car" . that being said, the ariel atom is the best bang for your buck oin a track day car. not a 70K camaro....
you say there are "many"... give us 3.

3 NEW cars that will have comparable performance to a z/28 around the track for under 70k.

ariel atom v8 is WELL over the camaro's price. a quick google search showed they are over $200k

and according to C&D, the ariel atom 3 was slower than the zl1 around VIR. not to mention its a single seater, no door or roof, open wheel track car.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:43 PM   #186
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like ive said, this car is in a class of its own. so you have to compare it to cars of the same purpose. track purpose cars...areil atom... hands down. 30k. light. track purpose and daily driver. best car. other than that...z06. still get radio, nav.... this is why gm will have a hard time selling this to anyone other than a true camaro enthusiast. there is no market for a 70k camaro that has no radio and is intended for the track. most people have dedicated track cars that are in this catagory. in a catagory close to this would be cars like the M3, S5, boss 302, gtr, z06. higher scale.... cayman R, mercedes black series, even the new viper... i know viper has had track cars in the past, but those are TRUE track cars with roll cages ready to race. this camaro is not that serious. but you could compare it to a viper of that caliber


people looking for a NEW track purpose 2nd or 3rd car, are few nad far between. anyone serious about track days has a car for that and isnt planning on spending 70K for it. people looking for a 2nd or 3rd car for a "toy" will more than likely be looking in the used car market. and in that field, you open up all other types of competition. for 70 or 80K like you said, id be looking for a panamera turbo so me and 3 of my friends can all enjoy the laps . but seriously, there will be alot of other used options for this purpose that will fulfill anyones track day urge and save them money. all a track day car needs to really be quick is the right set of wheels and tires, and brakes. obviously thats what they did with the camaro.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:53 PM   #187
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like ive said, this car is in a class of its own. so you have to compare it to cars of the same purpose. track purpose cars...areil atom... hands down. 30k. light. track purpose and daily driver. best car. other than that...z06. still get radio, nav.... this is why gm will have a hard time selling this to anyone other than a true camaro enthusiast. there is no market for a 70k camaro that has no radio and is intended for the track. most people have dedicated track cars that are in this catagory. in a catagory close to this would be cars like the M3, S5, boss 302, gtr, z06. higher scale.... cayman R, mercedes black series, even the new viper... i know viper has had track cars in the past, but those are TRUE track cars with roll cages ready to race. this camaro is not that serious. but you could compare it to a viper of that caliber
1. ariel atom 3 is not 30k lol. and like i said, it was beat by the zl1.
2. M3, S5, boss 302, cayman R, mercedes c63 black? these cars are all a joke for the z/28. heck, they are a joke for the zl1...
3. the other cars you listed are all at least 30k above the 70k mark, set aside the Z06 which still starts 5k above the 70k mark and..
4. unless you get the z07 (which is 100k+), the standard z06 WILL be lapped by this car.

did you even look at the lap times i linked?

again... 3 cars

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people looking for a NEW track purpose 2nd or 3rd car, are few nad far between. anyone serious about track days has a car for that and isnt planning on spending 70K for it. people looking for a 2nd or 3rd car for a "toy" will more than likely be looking in the used car market. and in that field, you open up all other types of competition. for 70 or 80K like you said, id be looking for a panamera turbo so me and 3 of my friends can all enjoy the laps . but seriously, there will be alot of other used options for this purpose that will fulfill anyones track day urge and save them money. all a track day car needs to really be quick is the right set of wheels and tires, and brakes. obviously thats what they did with the camaro.
this is a preference thing. but if your going to compare cars, to be fair you need to compare new to new. otherwise you can get a used 80's f1 car and call it a day lol
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