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Old 04-23-2013, 01:50 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
Let me help you out so you'll "know for certain".

A "real" racer is someone who takes their car out on a track and races it or drives for a team that races cars.

A "status symbol" driver is someone who's never been on a track and isn't going to drive on a racetrack, but they want to appear as though they do by driving around in a car that appears to be a "real" race car.

A "real" racer understands the value and cost of racing and generally doesn't complain about the price.

A "status symbol" driver is VERY price conscious and just wants the appearance without the cost.

Do you see a lot of people walking around dressed as doctors, wearing astronaut suits, dressed as police officers, dressed as pilots, dressed as golfers, carrying a music instrument like they're a musician who aren't any of those things? No? Exactly, so if using those as examples is how far you have to go to try and "make your point" then you don't have a point to make to begin with. "Less credible and presumably delusional" is more fitting to what you posted up which had absolutely nothing to do with auto racing.

I agree Doc but if you think the market for this type of car is for the "racer?" You're delusional. You see Doc, it's a VERY BIG sublimenal message (marketing scheme)being said here by GM. "This car is not for everyone." Which in turn makes more ppl want it. And not to mention more sold WILL BE status symbol cars.

Btw, is the Z/28 a race car or not since you're using the term racer? I ask because I was corrected for using such a term.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:56 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Doc View Post
Let me help you out so you'll "know for certain".

A "real" racer is someone who takes their car out on a track and races it or drives for a team that races cars.

.
A real racer, someone who will tell you it doesn't matter if you win by an inch or mile winning is winning!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahahahahahahahahahhaah

I couldn't help myself with all the "real racer" talk
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:58 PM   #224
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Totally understandable! Just cause you tell your kids and I think it's great you do as I will tell mine, but that doesn't necessarily say that because you're passing it down means it'll continue being a legend. If chevy drops the camaro again and never resurfaces it? You're legend is dead. Back to my point: you're I'm sure old enough to know jimmy Hendrix right? Elvis right? They're legends. Ask your kids presuming they're teens or less and they may have heard of them, may have even listened to them, but they're more influenced with the ppl their own age and what they're growing up seeing or hearing which is not necessarily what we believe in. Crap music, computers in cars, no more concerts, just download this or download that. And muscle car status is just not one of them. Many kids today don't care a lick about history. Music, cars, ect. They find it boring because we lacked technology. We lived in the era where technology wasn't at the forefront just yet. Now if you don't have the latest and greatest to make yourself feel good? You're looked down upon as not getting with the program. Ppl today change everything except maybe their home like they do underwear. Correct me if I'm wrong! But I just don't see this car continuing to be that legendary in 20 yrs when they won't even have a camaro. It's sad but this seems more real than the hopes we have in our heads doesn't it?

Which is why GM brought it back. To capitalize on it. They're not stupid. The market was great for it. But that market is changing very quickly. It's make money now screw what they think approach. You capitalize on something when time is right and charge a premium because in today's society, if you market it well, ppl will line up on top of one another just to buy that wooden nickel they made out to be gold.
Kids today don't find cars boring - they can't afford them.

Go back to the 60s. My dad was in the army then worked at a machine shop. During that time he had a 63 Sport Fury, 64 Dart, later he had 68 Chevelle (and a few others i am forgetting but we get the idea). He made good money with a trade he picked up but was driving the "fast" cars of his day right out of high school.

Fast forward to the late 90s early 2000s - import racing became king because that is what the youth could afford.

Mustang v Camaro was for those older 30s+ who had great jobs. Those cars were 10k more than a Civic Si. The Civic also got 30mpg once gas started rising too.

Technology has changed the social scene but you cant go with friends toa movie on facebook.

Cars are still needed (or better public transport) and the youth still desire them. But keeping prices high on Camaros and mustangs (the fun cars) car builders are turning off younger drivers.

Imports died once big money entered. Once exotic engine builds started taking over the NIRAs/NHRA Imports/NOPIs went away. Youth couldnt afford it so they quit.

Toyota/Subaru went together to make their RWD sports car in an attempt to gain some of that youth back. And while i don't know if that works there is a 23 year old guy at my employment who has one and he plans on tracking it a lot this summer.

No one wants to race a V6 camaro. Those help sell units and keep prices low but anyone wanting to race doesn't want it.

Now you have GM with 3 track cars (but all 3 are over 30k) and out of the reach of younger buyers who would love to have one.

Yes there are legends to be passed down but what happens when your kids opts for the BRZ and then desires Toyotas or Subarus as hit hot rods?

I will tell you now the Cruze is not inspiring todays youth to go racing.

GM is pushing the Corvette to attract younger buyers but it seems that the Camaro is going after an older crowd. And for 2014 it looks like the Camaro will be king at GM and not the Corvette.

This is how I see things - I am thinking of a new C7 and I am in my early 30s.

I am curious to see what the plan is over at GM. Will the Camaro overtake the Corvette for good?
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:12 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Wizard1183 View Post
Totally understandable! Just cause you tell your kids and I think it's great you do as I will tell mine, but that doesn't necessarily say that because you're passing it down means it'll continue being a legend. If chevy drops the camaro again and never resurfaces it? You're legend is dead. Back to my point: you're I'm sure old enough to know jimmy Hendrix right? Elvis right? They're legends. Ask your kids presuming they're teens or less and they may have heard of them, may have even listened to them, but they're more influenced with the ppl their own age and what they're growing up seeing or hearing which is not necessarily what we believe in. Crap music, computers in cars, no more concerts, just download this or download that. And muscle car status is just not one of them. Many kids today don't care a lick about history. Music, cars, ect. They find it boring because we lacked technology. We lived in the era where technology wasn't at the forefront just yet. Now if you don't have the latest and greatest to make yourself feel good? You're looked down upon as not getting with the program. Ppl today change everything except maybe their home like they do underwear. Correct me if I'm wrong! But I just don't see this car continuing to be that legendary in 20 yrs when they won't even have a camaro. It's sad but this seems more real than the hopes we have in our heads doesn't it?

Which is why GM brought it back. To capitalize on it. They're not stupid. The market was great for it. But that market is changing very quickly. It's make money now screw what they think approach. You capitalize on something when time is right and charge a premium because in today's society, if you market it well, ppl will line up on top of one another just to buy that wooden nickel they made out to be gold.
I'm not sure if you are familiar with the hot rod industry, but some of the most popular cars there are '32, '33, '36 fords. you tell me how many guys are still around from that era. the hot rod industry is being held up by the kids and grand children of those who worked on restoring the 30's fords in the garage back in the 40's. it is something that was passed on, and will continue to be passed on. now being in the "digital" age, sure, society will move on to other things, but those hot rods will continue to be legendary to those who care.

the camaro is a car that lots of kids were excited about because of the transformers movie. when those kids are old, they will continue to love the camaro because of how it tied in with their childhood.

Elvis is a legend, and people recognize him as so. maybe not a lot of people listening to him anymore, but he is recognized as a legend none-the-less.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:22 PM   #226
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Had you been a little less condescending I might have thought you made a reasonable point but now I'm certain you're just a "Real" Prick.
you weren't exactly uplifting with your first comment.. lol

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I don't know for certain what makes someone a "Real "Racer but it seems to me that asserting one's own "realness" in any occupation or hobby makes one less credible and presumably delusional.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:34 PM   #227
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I'm not sure if you are familiar with the hot rod industry, but some of the most popular cars there are '32, '33, '36 fords. you tell me how many guys are still around from that era. the hot rod industry is being held up by the kids and grand children of those who worked on restoring the 30's fords in the garage back in the 40's. it is something that was passed on, and will continue to be passed on. now being in the "digital" age, sure, society will move on to other things, but those hot rods will continue to be legendary to those who care.

the camaro is a car that lots of kids were excited about because of the transformers movie. when those kids are old, they will continue to love the camaro because of how it tied in with their childhood.

Elvis is a legend, and people recognize him as so. maybe not a lot of people listening to him anymore, but he is recognized as a legend none-the-less.
I don't disagree, but the %of those who give a shit? It's losing ground quickly. And yes,Elvis is a legend. But in my 6 month old child's eyes when he's a teen? I doubt it. Not even if i preach to him about it. Know why? he simply wont give a shit. Not everyone cares how their parents see things and more so don't. As long as its not illegal or wrong, you can't force them to enjoy the same things you did as a child. It won't ever be forgotten because its history, but the want for it is ultimately lessened and the market becomes very small. Look at the market for swords built in say 16th century. Rare yes, expensive yes. But not that expensive. The market isn't interested in that.

In 40 more yrs, kids will be tweaking their batteries in their cars to run hotter in hopes that the mouse beneath the hood runs a little faster. Ask them to change the oil in our cars and they'll drive the car off a cliff so that you never have to change it again lol.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:13 PM   #228
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I don't disagree, but the %of those who give a shit? It's losing ground quickly. And yes,Elvis is a legend. But in my 6 month old child's eyes when he's a teen? I doubt it. Not even if i preach to him about it. Know why? he simply wont give a shit. Not everyone cares how their parents see things and more so don't. As long as its not illegal or wrong, you can't force them to enjoy the same things you did as a child. It won't ever be forgotten because its history, but the want for it is ultimately lessened and the market becomes very small. Look at the market for swords built in say 16th century. Rare yes, expensive yes. But not that expensive. The market isn't interested in that.
well that holds true for pretty much anything that ages.

so the answer to your original question: "You think this car will still carry its "legendary" status?"

is this... yes, for those who care. just like elvis.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:16 PM   #229
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well that holds true for pretty much anything that ages.

so the answer to your original question: "You think this car will still carry its "legendary" status?"

is this... yes, for those who care. just like elvis.
Lol you're right. For those that care.....
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:33 PM   #230
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Thank you Doc for your highly charged explanation of what a "Real" Racer is. Now I understand your opinion.

Had you been a little less condescending I might have thought you made a reasonable point but now I'm certain you're just a "Real" Prick.
If you can't handle the return then don't open by serving the ball.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:37 PM   #231
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Hold it, Hold it, that's enough!....I can take all the bs about the Z/28, but bashing Elvis is going too far!....Elvis could hack all the bashing to a point, but he drew the line with his Blue Suede Shoes...

If Elvis could get his hands on this new Z/28, my guess is his shoe-policy would apply to the car as well....lol...
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:40 PM   #232
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Kids today don't find cars boring - they can't afford them.

Go back to the 60s. My dad was in the army then worked at a machine shop. During that time he had a 63 Sport Fury, 64 Dart, later he had 68 Chevelle (and a few others i am forgetting but we get the idea). He made good money with a trade he picked up but was driving the "fast" cars of his day right out of high school.

Fast forward to the late 90s early 2000s - import racing became king because that is what the youth could afford.

Mustang v Camaro was for those older 30s+ who had great jobs. Those cars were 10k more than a Civic Si. The Civic also got 30mpg once gas started rising too.

Technology has changed the social scene but you cant go with friends toa movie on facebook.

Cars are still needed (or better public transport) and the youth still desire them. But keeping prices high on Camaros and mustangs (the fun cars) car builders are turning off younger drivers.

Imports died once big money entered. Once exotic engine builds started taking over the NIRAs/NHRA Imports/NOPIs went away. Youth couldnt afford it so they quit.

Toyota/Subaru went together to make their RWD sports car in an attempt to gain some of that youth back. And while i don't know if that works there is a 23 year old guy at my employment who has one and he plans on tracking it a lot this summer.

No one wants to race a V6 camaro. Those help sell units and keep prices low but anyone wanting to race doesn't want it.

Now you have GM with 3 track cars (but all 3 are over 30k) and out of the reach of younger buyers who would love to have one.

Yes there are legends to be passed down but what happens when your kids opts for the BRZ and then desires Toyotas or Subarus as hit hot rods?

I will tell you now the Cruze is not inspiring todays youth to go racing.

GM is pushing the Corvette to attract younger buyers but it seems that the Camaro is going after an older crowd. And for 2014 it looks like the Camaro will be king at GM and not the Corvette.

This is how I see things - I am thinking of a new C7 and I am in my early 30s.

I am curious to see what the plan is over at GM. Will the Camaro overtake the Corvette for good?
No it won't. I see the camaro on its way out the door. GM did us guys and some girls who wanted high performance muscle at a somewhat affordable price a favor in bringing it back. They capitalized on it because the window of opportunity was there. I believe the 6th gen camaro is on its way out the door because they trademarked the chevelle. The muscle era is beginning to weaken believe it or not. Just as it did after the late 60s early 70s. CAFE is beginning to become a full force regulation and eventually we'll have to succumb to either pay a large premium for performance or go with the higher mpg cars they produce. Camaro will not last in what the future holds which is going green.

Didn't one of the GM engineers say, "over his dead body will they put a 4cyl in the camaro?" I could swear I read that somewhere! You know what that means? The 4cyl is going to become the avg engine 70% of the nation will own it seems.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:53 PM   #233
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Wow sorry I'd never spend 70K on a camaro. I'll take something a bit slower that actually has a quality interior.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:54 PM   #234
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I believe the 6th gen camaro is on its way out the door because they trademarked the chevelle.
Trade marking "Chevelle" means nothing. They also still hold the trademark for Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and various models from long ago. Imagine letting that expire and honda grabbing it.....
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:55 PM   #235
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Wow sorry I'd never spend 70K on a camaro. I'll take something a bit slower that actually has a quality interior.
That's because you are missing the point. Like 90% of the people in this thread.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:08 PM   #236
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That's because you are missing the point. Like 90% of the people in this thread.
Nope the point is this is a track car...There's still lots of track cars that have nice interiors. The car will perform no doubt, but for 70K no thanks. I'm assuming there's going to be very small production number for this car.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:09 PM   #237
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With all this "heritage" talk, I think the Z/28 they are building is long over-due...

'67 was the first year for the Camaro and for the Z/28 for racing purposes...the irony is that now it's problably the last model to come out of the 5th gen after five years of production....

I think it's well adapted for what it probably takes to compete at the track these days, and is a perfect fit in the Camaro line...(although a bit late)....The enthusiasm and nostalgia probably fueled the return of the Camaro in the first place....A lot of them bought by us soon to die and be forgotten baby-boomers...lol....

To that end, I'd say the die-hard, true Camaro Z/28 enthusiasts have waited long enough for this car to be built as it is in the 5th gen....There's plenty of awesome, trackable Camaros already available to buy if the Z/28 isn't your bag...

To say why build it like this, who will care in 10, 20 years is ridiculous...Building it now will make sure cars like this and it's heritage will be around for my kids and grand-kids...

I hope those many years younger than I will track/race the crap out of these things for many years to come....
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:14 PM   #238
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Trade marking "Chevelle" means nothing. They also still hold the trademark for Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and various models from long ago. Imagine letting that expire and honda grabbing it.....
We shall see! if you think the camaro isn't going to go away?

This is the last time anyone will see muscle cars as new production vehicles. Technology will wipe this away by 2025.
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