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Old 04-22-2013, 07:30 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
Plenty of doubt in my mind and I've been running SCCA Time-Trials against a GT-R for three years. What's your track experience again? My expectation is to run faster laps than a GT-R.

Furthermore...GT-R in hot weather will run maybe a couple laps at 8/10's or more before it overheats and goes into engine protect mode. At which point it becomes a rolling chicane. With all the extra coolers, there is no reason the NA Z/28 shouldn't run strong all trackday long.

I don't give a crap about a one-lap-wonder, I want a trackday car that will run all day long and then drive it home.



Ariel Atom is a very fine track car choice! "Light is right" and the cheap cost to run it is a beautiful thing.

But it is a 180 degree difference from a romping stomping hand-built, high-revving torque monster 427 engine in a car with huge brakes and professional level damping.

Some of us will enjoy both experiences for the unique joys each has to offer.



And some of us who have been driving Porsche's (GT3's) are looking forward to Z/28 ownership. Grass may not be as green across the fence as you think it is. Hope you have a mighty fat wallet to pay the running cost of that Porsche. A GT3 on average will cost you $3000-4000 per track day. $3000-4000 per hour if you are consistent 8/10's+. Not including the event fee, insurance and/or any mechanical failures, agricultural excursion damage, or contact with other objects.



Jezus guys, the Z/28 is not a race car. It is a track day car. If you don't understand the difference, then please figure it out. Apples/oranges. I am not being ugly or making a personal attack, but please understand the meaning of the terminology you are using.

Race car is not a Trackday car.

It will run faster laps on a road course than 95% of other street cars in OE trim vs OE trim. Watch and see.

ive had some track time in my short racing life. obviously there is no swaying votes on the die hard z28 fans... but when it comes down to it, this car is still heavy and not the perfect idea of a camaro track car. gm will get it right on the next smaller platform. but this one is to shut up alot of the naggers about the true track car...of which this still isnt really.... sure other cars have high repair rates and cost to drive... dont you think this car will? believe me after pounding on those ceramic brakes all day.... its gonna be an expensive fix. there are many other cars that can be had for true racing and be well under this cars price. gm is advertising this as their " track car"...well its not... its a track day car that has no other purpose but the occasional lapping day..... its not good for the street..... and for its price, not going to be great for the track.... id rather buy a new z06. much more capable on the track and street.

and like you said" track day car" . that being said, the ariel atom is the best bang for your buck oin a track day car. not a 70K camaro....
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:34 PM   #184
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how is this so hard for people to understand?

The ZL1 is ALREADY up there with porsche's, R8's, z06 (standard), ferrari's, ariel atom 3, etc... LOOK at the lap times. Nurburgring lap times. VIR lap times.

and the z/28 is to be advertised to be 3 seconds faster around a 3 mile course... which puts it ABOVE all those high dollar cars up there ^.

even at 80k, with those numbers, this car will still be bang for buck. give me some cars that you think will outperform the z/28 at that price range. new for new, stock for stock. no monster miata BS, i even have a hard time with people trying to compare the ariel atom to a full size car with seating for 4 too... we all know that these are apples to oranges comparisons.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:37 PM   #185
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ive had some track time in my short racing life. obviously there is no swaying votes on the die hard z28 fans... but when it comes down to it, this car is still heavy and not the perfect idea of a camaro track car. gm will get it right on the next smaller platform. but this one is to shut up alot of the naggers about the true track car...of which this still isnt really.... sure other cars have high repair rates and cost to drive... dont you think this car will? believe me after pounding on those ceramic brakes all day.... its gonna be an expensive fix. there are many other cars that can be had for true racing and be well under this cars price. gm is advertising this as their " track car"...well its not... its a track day car that has no other purpose but the occasional lapping day..... its not good for the street..... and for its price, not going to be great for the track.... id rather buy a new z06. much more capable on the track and street.

and like you said" track day car" . that being said, the ariel atom is the best bang for your buck oin a track day car. not a 70K camaro....
you say there are "many"... give us 3.

3 NEW cars that will have comparable performance to a z/28 around the track for under 70k.

ariel atom v8 is WELL over the camaro's price. a quick google search showed they are over $200k

and according to C&D, the ariel atom 3 was slower than the zl1 around VIR. not to mention its a single seater, no door or roof, open wheel track car.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:43 PM   #186
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like ive said, this car is in a class of its own. so you have to compare it to cars of the same purpose. track purpose cars...areil atom... hands down. 30k. light. track purpose and daily driver. best car. other than that...z06. still get radio, nav.... this is why gm will have a hard time selling this to anyone other than a true camaro enthusiast. there is no market for a 70k camaro that has no radio and is intended for the track. most people have dedicated track cars that are in this catagory. in a catagory close to this would be cars like the M3, S5, boss 302, gtr, z06. higher scale.... cayman R, mercedes black series, even the new viper... i know viper has had track cars in the past, but those are TRUE track cars with roll cages ready to race. this camaro is not that serious. but you could compare it to a viper of that caliber


people looking for a NEW track purpose 2nd or 3rd car, are few nad far between. anyone serious about track days has a car for that and isnt planning on spending 70K for it. people looking for a 2nd or 3rd car for a "toy" will more than likely be looking in the used car market. and in that field, you open up all other types of competition. for 70 or 80K like you said, id be looking for a panamera turbo so me and 3 of my friends can all enjoy the laps . but seriously, there will be alot of other used options for this purpose that will fulfill anyones track day urge and save them money. all a track day car needs to really be quick is the right set of wheels and tires, and brakes. obviously thats what they did with the camaro.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:53 PM   #187
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like ive said, this car is in a class of its own. so you have to compare it to cars of the same purpose. track purpose cars...areil atom... hands down. 30k. light. track purpose and daily driver. best car. other than that...z06. still get radio, nav.... this is why gm will have a hard time selling this to anyone other than a true camaro enthusiast. there is no market for a 70k camaro that has no radio and is intended for the track. most people have dedicated track cars that are in this catagory. in a catagory close to this would be cars like the M3, S5, boss 302, gtr, z06. higher scale.... cayman R, mercedes black series, even the new viper... i know viper has had track cars in the past, but those are TRUE track cars with roll cages ready to race. this camaro is not that serious. but you could compare it to a viper of that caliber
1. ariel atom 3 is not 30k lol. and like i said, it was beat by the zl1.
2. M3, S5, boss 302, cayman R, mercedes c63 black? these cars are all a joke for the z/28. heck, they are a joke for the zl1...
3. the other cars you listed are all at least 30k above the 70k mark, set aside the Z06 which still starts 5k above the 70k mark and..
4. unless you get the z07 (which is 100k+), the standard z06 WILL be lapped by this car.

did you even look at the lap times i linked?

again... 3 cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen View Post
people looking for a NEW track purpose 2nd or 3rd car, are few nad far between. anyone serious about track days has a car for that and isnt planning on spending 70K for it. people looking for a 2nd or 3rd car for a "toy" will more than likely be looking in the used car market. and in that field, you open up all other types of competition. for 70 or 80K like you said, id be looking for a panamera turbo so me and 3 of my friends can all enjoy the laps . but seriously, there will be alot of other used options for this purpose that will fulfill anyones track day urge and save them money. all a track day car needs to really be quick is the right set of wheels and tires, and brakes. obviously thats what they did with the camaro.
this is a preference thing. but if your going to compare cars, to be fair you need to compare new to new. otherwise you can get a used 80's f1 car and call it a day lol
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:58 PM   #188
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I would ask of the experts, why then is there even more than one make/model of car that is tracked?...If all the prices and data are known, why isn't the best valued one, price and performance wise, the only car that's worth tracking/racing?....lol
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:59 PM   #189
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did you not read what i said? there is no car in this class! because theres no void to be filled! thats hwy i said it goes in other classes that it may compete with. and the ariel atom is 56K...and the z06, yeah id still take it over this camaro... it has a radio and lower ownership cost and will be way more fun to drive around a track than the heavy pig camaro. cayman r is priced similar to the estimated z28 price. this is probably the closest car in its category other than the boss 302, z06 and even the exotics.. so there you have it. no matter the price. all those cars are still in its league. this category isnt based on $ obviously. its based on capability.


when you think of track day cars, you have to compare cost of car to performance. there are plenty of other cars that will run close to this z28 and be thousands less. and thats something consumers have to weigh. should i buy a 70K camaro that runs X time? or 40K car that runs X seconds slower in the lap than the 70K camaro? because who cares what a professional racing driver lapped this car in..... if you cant do that same time, it dont mean $hit!
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:07 PM   #190
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did you not read what i said? there is no car in this class! because theres no void to be filled! thats hwy i said it goes in other classes that it may compete with. and the ariel atom is 56K...and the z06, yeah id still take it over this camaro... it has a radio and lower ownership cost and will be way more fun to drive around a track than the heavy pig camaro. cayman r is priced similar to the estimated z28 price. this is probably the closest car in its category other than the boss 302, z06 and even the exotics.. so there you have it. no matter the price. all those cars are still in its league. this category isnt based on $ obviously. its based on capability.


when you think of track day cars, you have to compare cost of car to performance. there are plenty of other cars that will run close to this z28 and be thousands less. and thats something consumers have to weigh. should i buy a 70K camaro that runs X time? or 40K car that runs X seconds slower in the lap than the 70K camaro? because who cares what a professional racing driver lapped this car in..... if you cant do that same time, it dont mean $hit!
im not following you.. first you say there are better cars for the cost, then you say its not about cost, then you say its about value compared to 40k cars? your all over the place lol.

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I would ask of the experts, why then is there even more than one make/model of car that is tracked?...If all the prices and data are known, why isn't the best valued one, price and performance wise, the only car that's worth tracking/racing?....lol
this is true, and i was just entertaining his thoughts.

if everything is just numbers, why do we see mustangs and challengers on the road?
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:08 PM   #191
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this is the same idea behind if gm brings out the Holden ute as the el camino..... gm will have this category on lock down. it will be the best god damn car/truck on the market! because the market doesn't exist for it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:11 PM   #192
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im not following you.. first you say there are better cars for the cost, then you say its not about cost, then you say its about value compared to 40k cars? your all over the place lol.



this is true, and i was just entertaining his thoughts.

if everything is just numbers, why do we see mustangs and challengers on the road?
there are better performers for the money. not all new, but slightly used. and the category this car will be in is obviously a higher category because theres not alot of lower level performers that make a car like this, most are high end. and comparing value for value, yeah like i said theres better value for your money.


all these numbers are compared ot the ZL1 running the ring. id like to see 1 camaro owner who had their ZL1 running the ring as quickly as GM got it...... ill bet theres not a single guy on here who is running the times GM got out of the car.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:18 PM   #193
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ill bet theres not a single guy on here who is running the times GM got out of the car.
Wouldn't the same be true of every other car that is tested by it's manufacturer?
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:20 PM   #194
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yup. my point is, everyone is saying its 3 seconds quicker than the zl1......ok...well, average joe, show me!
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:20 PM   #195
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Wouldn't the same be true of every other car that is tested by it's manufacturer?
thinking is hard
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:39 PM   #196
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if everything is just numbers, why do we see mustangs and challengers on the road?
I think this was VolksWagen's overall strategy back in the day...lol...
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