Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics

Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-18-2013, 05:59 PM   #101
Zfatuated

 
Drives: BAC Mono
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Reno
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
Hey friend. Im just going by what you and your constituents are claiming. "Its a street legal race car that you can drive to the track"

I know Im not the end all to be all, but I think they should of built it full spec, found other places to save the weight, and skipped out on the Carbon Ceramics to save cost.

Id buy the crap out of a 500 hp Z/28 that managed to lose 300 lbs without carbon ceramics, priced around a ZL1 that I could still tour around in. Now we are talking.
I never used those words or anything close to them. Not sure who did (don't recall seeing those posts) but they are not accurate.

Have you tracked a car with big carbon brakes? I have, many in fact. Two of my cars had $25k carbon/silicon/carbide rotor'ed brake systems with billet calipers. I suspect you are not aware of what benefits a "real" brake system can offer, particularly on a heavy car. In the interest of having an informed discussion based on facts and not knee-jerk reactions, why don't you dig into that subject? Come back and we can then discuss it again if you like?
Zfatuated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 06:00 PM   #102
Wizard1183

 
Wizard1183's Avatar
 
Drives: ABM SS2/RS M6
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lafayette,LA
Posts: 1,281
Send a message via Yahoo to Wizard1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
According to Al O. 250 lbs. equals 1 second on a track. The brakes alone could make that back up.
Not in the qrtr mile they don't. Brakes do nothing until after the race.
__________________


Life is short, drive it like you stole it!
Wizard1183 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 06:01 PM   #103
orthojoe
 
Drives: Subaru BRZ, Porsche Boxster Spyder
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: California
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
Id buy the crap out of a 500 hp Z/28 that managed to lose 300 lbs without carbon ceramics, priced around a ZL1 that I could still tour around in. Now we are talking.
1) carbon ceramics save weight, but not as much as you would think. I helped a friend convert a carbon ceramic setup back to irons and the total weight difference was 24 pounds. FWIW, I think the carbon ceramic brakes are needed for the z/28 for fade resistance because of it's weight. Yes, it is a heavy car.

2) We dont know what the z/28 will be priced at yet. It could very well be not too far off from a ZL1

3) I suppose 'touring' is relative, but you can option a/c back in. I would guess that a/c adds about 25 pounds

Last edited by orthojoe; 04-18-2013 at 07:48 PM.
orthojoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 06:08 PM   #104
Wizard1183

 
Wizard1183's Avatar
 
Drives: ABM SS2/RS M6
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lafayette,LA
Posts: 1,281
Send a message via Yahoo to Wizard1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
Hey friend. Im just going by what you and your constituents are claiming. "Its a street legal race car that you can drive to the track"

Well yes it is. Hope its a short drive and nice and cool outside. Saving 300lbs is worth it but its not like they shaved enough off to make the car a non pig. Ill wager that the car still comes in at almost 4000 lbs with full tank.

I know Im not the end all to be all, but I think they should of built it full spec, found other places to save the weight, and skipped out on the Carbon Ceramics to save cost. Bring it in at around the cost of a ZL1 and made more enough of them for the masses.

Then if I want to race it, I can choose to remove the carpet, the speakers, the radio etc if I wanted to.

Id buy the crap out of a 500 hp Z/28 that managed to lose 300 lbs without carbon ceramics, priced around a ZL1 that I could still tour around in. Now we are talkin
g.
Then it wouldn't be a Z/28. The car was designed for a track. I agree I'd love a car that you speak of. But that's be a street legal strip car which is what I want with the LS7 as a factory install.
__________________


Life is short, drive it like you stole it!
Wizard1183 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 06:08 PM   #105
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
Does aerodynamics and wind drag factor into your equation?
Yes as Al was speaking regarding the Z/28 itself.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 06:16 PM   #106
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizard1183 View Post
Not in the qrtr mile they don't. Brakes do nothing until after the race.
No the road course.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 06:17 PM   #107
Wizard1183

 
Wizard1183's Avatar
 
Drives: ABM SS2/RS M6
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lafayette,LA
Posts: 1,281
Send a message via Yahoo to Wizard1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
No the road course.
This thread is about the qrtr mile.
__________________


Life is short, drive it like you stole it!
Wizard1183 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 06:18 PM   #108
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079
Yes my remarks were for comments by another poster.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:14 PM   #109
Sweet Zness
Because I Can
 
Sweet Zness's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IOM G8GT 11 Victory Red SS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sanford
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
I never used those words or anything close to them. Not sure who did (don't recall seeing those posts) but they are not accurate.

Have you tracked a car with big carbon brakes? I have, many in fact. Two of my cars had $25k carbon/silicon/carbide rotor'ed brake systems with billet calipers. I suspect you are not aware of what benefits a "real" brake system can offer, particularly on a heavy car. In the interest of having an informed discussion based on facts and not knee-jerk reactions, why don't you dig into that subject? Come back and we can then discuss it again if you like?

Sir I am fully aware of what a great suspension/braking system will do for a car of any size.

The discussion I am trying to have is that if this is a track superstar Camaro that is specifically built for racing warriors. Then its silly to only be able to use it in a friendly track day setting. Just for shits and giggles.

Its like we are saying "Hey look, we took out the carpet, left one speaker, put these massive breaks on it so the less than one half of one percent of the worlds population would be ok to race it in a friendly only setting"

Tell me if you believe they couldn't save 300 lbs elsewhere through materials, or parts that wouldn't compromise it as a daily? If your answer is yes, then they should of gone this route, cut off the ceramics priced it just a hair above the ZL1 and sold a lot more of them to Camaro Enthusiasts.

I mean, unless your saying that factory installed Carbon Ceramics is the ONLY way to go to make a Z/28.
Sweet Zness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:19 PM   #110
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
Sir I am fully aware of what a great suspension/braking system will do for a car of any size.

The discussion I am trying to have is that if this is a track superstar Camaro that is specifically built for racing warriors. Then its silly to only be able to use it in a friendly track day setting. Just for shits and giggles.

Its like we are saying "Hey look, we took out the carpet, left one speaker, put these massive breaks on it so the less than one half of one percent of the worlds population would be ok to race it in a friendly only setting"

Tell me if you believe they couldn't save 300 lbs elsewhere through materials, or parts that wouldn't compromise it as a daily? If your answer is yes, then they should of gone this route, cut off the ceramics priced it just a hair above the ZL1 and sold a lot more of them to Camaro Enthusiasts.

I mean, unless your saying that factory installed Carbon Ceramics is the ONLY way to go to make a Z/28.
What else do you want in it? A stereo? Have a local shop install one. No big deal.
It IMO wont be much more than a ZL1.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:22 PM   #111
Sweet Zness
Because I Can
 
Sweet Zness's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IOM G8GT 11 Victory Red SS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sanford
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizard1183 View Post
Then it wouldn't be a Z/28. The car was designed for a track. I agree I'd love a car that you speak of. But that's be a street legal strip car which is what I want with the LS7 as a factory install.

Its exactly what I wanted.

Let me propose this to you though man.

If GM said, we cut the sound deadening, removed the carpet, got rid of the speakers and stereo, and the AC to save 300 lbs to make this Z/28.

Then said, Or we could find other areas to save the weight. And still make this car which would you pick?

Does it have to save weight by only pulling out the stereo or AC? Is there disappointment in it not having crank up windows?

You kill the carbon ceramics or even better make it an option. You can still put some killer suspension on it, or a better brake system. Just not one that is about a 10K cost to this car.

Now we have an all around winner.


Its an opinion man.
Sweet Zness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:24 PM   #112
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079
They apparently only removed the carpet and sound deadener in the trunk. Big deal put it in.

"Removed interior sound deadener and carpeting from the trunk"

Then order the AC. It's been said over and over again by former GM engineers that crank windows would add weight (and HUGE cost) for new cars.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:28 PM   #113
Sweet Zness
Because I Can
 
Sweet Zness's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IOM G8GT 11 Victory Red SS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sanford
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
What else do you want in it? A stereo? Have a local shop install one. No big deal.
It IMO wont be much more than a ZL1.

LOL...no offense to those that do this. I haven't changed out a head unit on a car since probably the early 90's. Its just not my cup of tea. Don't like the non factory look.
Sweet Zness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:30 PM   #114
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
LOL...no offense to those that do this. I haven't changed out a head unit on a car since probably the early 90's. Its just not my cup of tea. Don't like the non factory look.
Then have speakers put in with the stereo in it.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:32 PM   #115
Sweet Zness
Because I Can
 
Sweet Zness's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IOM G8GT 11 Victory Red SS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sanford
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
They apparently only removed the carpet and sound deadener in the trunk. Big deal put it in.

"Removed interior sound deadener and carpeting from the trunk"

Then order the AC. It's been said over and over again by former GM engineers that crank windows would add weight (and HUGE cost) for new cars.
As for the windows part, its a way of making a point to those who say "well its not a Z/28 then".

Same as when they got rid of flip up lights on the Corvette.

You keep saying put on this and add that. Now my 70-80K Camaro is skyrocketing up in price even more. That's my point. Add stereo, add AC, Add carpeting and sound deadening material. As opposed to using lighter rims or smaller rims. Lighter weight body materials, etc etc.
Sweet Zness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:33 PM   #116
Sweet Zness
Because I Can
 
Sweet Zness's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IOM G8GT 11 Victory Red SS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sanford
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Then have speakers put in with the stereo in it.
Maybe Im wrong but didn't I read that the wiring is even deleted.
Sweet Zness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:36 PM   #117
90503


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 10,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
As for the windows part, its a way of making a point to those who say "well its not a Z/28 then".

Same as when they got rid of flip up lights on the Corvette.

You keep saying put on this and add that. Now my 70-80K Camaro is skyrocketing up in price even more. That's my point. Add stereo, add AC, Add carpeting and sound deadening material. As opposed to using lighter rims or smaller rims. Lighter weight body materials, etc etc.
I'd say that ship has already sailed...It is what it is, not gonna be different at this point...
90503 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:41 PM   #118
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
Maybe Im wrong but didn't I read that the wiring is even deleted.
Dude c'mon?!
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 08:44 PM   #119
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
As for the windows part, its a way of making a point to those who say "well its not a Z/28 then".

Same as when they got rid of flip up lights on the Corvette.

You keep saying put on this and add that. Now my 70-80K Camaro is skyrocketing up in price even more. That's my point. Add stereo, add AC, Add carpeting and sound deadening material. As opposed to using lighter rims or smaller rims. Lighter weight body materials, etc etc.
Really crank windows make it a Z/28?
It obviously has very light weight and smaller rims. I guess you missed my post stating that only the trunk is missing carpet and sound deadening. Your arguments are not reasonable.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 09:17 PM   #120
Bomino
 
Bomino's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2ss/rs
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Nurburgring
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
Blah blah blah, a bunch of ... Blah blah
The z/28 is meant for the hardcore. THIS, you seem to not understand. Look at everything they did to the car, removed a/c, sound, rear glass, wiring, CCR... Even though some of this makes veeeery little to no difference on the track, it's so that GM could back themselves up when they say that this car is made for the HARDCORE track enthusiast. Sure there are other things they could have done, like using lighter chassis components, suspension, etc.. But then the production costs rocket. They had to work with the platform they have which is heavy.

Like GM has said, this car is meant for the track rat... They don't care that you like a/c. Or sound. If you do, they WILL tell you to get a zl1, and stay away from the z/28. if you REALLY want the z/28, you can still option a/c in.

Besides, who is gonna DD a car with 40 treadware tires?

Edit: 60 tw, not 40... Whoops
__________________

Last edited by Bomino; 04-18-2013 at 09:32 PM.
Bomino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 09:27 PM   #121
90503


 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 10,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomino View Post

Like GM has said, this car is meant for the track rat..

Besides, who is gonna DD a car with 40 treadware tires?
Maybe the same guy who would use his blinkers to change lane positions on the race-track?...lol...
90503 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 09:35 PM   #122
orthojoe
 
Drives: Subaru BRZ, Porsche Boxster Spyder
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: California
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
The discussion I am trying to have is that if this is a track superstar Camaro that is specifically built for racing warriors. Then its silly to only be able to use it in a friendly track day setting. Just for shits and giggles.
OK. It's painfully obvious you don't attend track days. How is building/selling a car for track days silly? Those of us that track as a hobby find a production car aimed for us specifically very appealing and refreshing. Yes, it's for shits and giggles. It's a track TOY. Why would you want to make a TOY practical? NOTHING about the car is practical. That's what a Camry is for.

Quote:
Its like we are saying "Hey look, we took out the carpet, left one speaker, put these massive breaks on it so the less than one half of one percent of the worlds population would be ok to race it in a friendly only setting"
1) it's spelled BRAKES not break
2) less than 0.5% of the world's population is a HUGE number of Camaros in general to sell. That's about 35 million cars.

Yes. This car is aimed for a very small segment of buyers. Very small. Very niche. If you are complaining about the car, it wasn't meant for you. It's a tough pill to swallow for some. What is wrong with the ZL1? You just don't like the badge?

Quote:
Tell me if you believe they couldn't save 300 lbs elsewhere through materials, or parts that wouldn't compromise it as a daily? If your answer is yes, then they should of gone this route, cut off the ceramics priced it just a hair above the ZL1 and sold a lot more of them to Camaro Enthusiasts.
1) Perhaps to Camaro enthusiasts that want to pretend they are 'hardcore', but not track day enthusiasts, which is who the Z/28 was built for.
2) We don't know what the Z/28 will be priced at. I personally think it will cost more than the ZL1, but not by a lot, which is what you are asking for.
3) You seem fixated on the ceramics. With a car that weighs 3800 pounds, brake fade/overheat is going to be a problem IF YOU TRACK THE CAR, and the ceramics are the solution to that problem.
4) The concept of removing A/C and stereo on a track/enthusiast focused car is not new:
The original Subaru STi: had no speakers or stereo.
Porsche Boxster Spyder and Cayman R: no radio, no A/C
Porsche GT3RS: A/C delete and radio delete available

All the people whining about the Z/28 have no intention of ever tracking the car and want it as a daily driver. You're whining because it's the wrong car for YOU.
orthojoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #123
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z51 or a 2014 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,079


Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
Maybe the same guy who would use his blinkers to change lane positions on the race-track?...lol...
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 10:25 PM   #124
NightmareZL1
Can't stop ***ifying
 
NightmareZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: Ashen 2013 Gray ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 270
hmmm, nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
FAIL! Use a 1/4 calculator and you get 11.8.
Keep dreaming. That calculator apparently doesn't work right. The 2012 Z06 with 800 less lbs does a 11.9 (by motortrend) The obese camaro, even on a diet, will still only ne a 12.6 at best.

Keep hoping, and prepare for disappointment. I wouldn't be surprised if the Z/28 is slower at the Ring also. The track that the Z/28 was faster than the ZL1 on had only a 0.3 mile straight and was a heavy brake and traction type track. the Ring with big straights and bumpy surfaces is ZL1 mag ride territory. Sorry.

Hell, slap those tires and wheels on the ZL1 and bye bye Z/28.

I am a fan of the Camaro (have). And a fan of the LS7 (had). But have little faith in the LS7 towing the camaro's big butt around.
__________________
Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp
NightmareZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #125
ShnOmac


 
ShnOmac's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Have any proof?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
You skipped my question so I will ask again.... Can you show me where the SCCA has stated that the Z/28 will not be allowed to run in any class?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Zness View Post
The discussion I am trying to have is that if this is a track superstar Camaro that is specifically built for racing warriors. Then its silly to only be able to use it in a friendly track day setting. Just for shits and giggles.
You seem to be conveniently ignoring my question. Where does it say in the SCCA rule book that the Z/28 will not be allowed to run in ANY class?
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.