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Old 04-18-2013, 07:01 PM   #103
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Id buy the crap out of a 500 hp Z/28 that managed to lose 300 lbs without carbon ceramics, priced around a ZL1 that I could still tour around in. Now we are talking.
1) carbon ceramics save weight, but not as much as you would think. I helped a friend convert a carbon ceramic setup back to irons and the total weight difference was 24 pounds. FWIW, I think the carbon ceramic brakes are needed for the z/28 for fade resistance because of it's weight. Yes, it is a heavy car.

2) We dont know what the z/28 will be priced at yet. It could very well be not too far off from a ZL1

3) I suppose 'touring' is relative, but you can option a/c back in. I would guess that a/c adds about 25 pounds

Last edited by orthojoe; 04-18-2013 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:08 PM   #104
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Hey friend. Im just going by what you and your constituents are claiming. "Its a street legal race car that you can drive to the track"

Well yes it is. Hope its a short drive and nice and cool outside. Saving 300lbs is worth it but its not like they shaved enough off to make the car a non pig. Ill wager that the car still comes in at almost 4000 lbs with full tank.

I know Im not the end all to be all, but I think they should of built it full spec, found other places to save the weight, and skipped out on the Carbon Ceramics to save cost. Bring it in at around the cost of a ZL1 and made more enough of them for the masses.

Then if I want to race it, I can choose to remove the carpet, the speakers, the radio etc if I wanted to.

Id buy the crap out of a 500 hp Z/28 that managed to lose 300 lbs without carbon ceramics, priced around a ZL1 that I could still tour around in. Now we are talkin
g.
Then it wouldn't be a Z/28. The car was designed for a track. I agree I'd love a car that you speak of. But that's be a street legal strip car which is what I want with the LS7 as a factory install.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:08 PM   #105
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Does aerodynamics and wind drag factor into your equation?
Yes as Al was speaking regarding the Z/28 itself.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:16 PM   #106
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Not in the qrtr mile they don't. Brakes do nothing until after the race.
No the road course.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:17 PM   #107
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No the road course.
This thread is about the qrtr mile.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:18 PM   #108
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Yes my remarks were for comments by another poster.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:14 PM   #109
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I never used those words or anything close to them. Not sure who did (don't recall seeing those posts) but they are not accurate.

Have you tracked a car with big carbon brakes? I have, many in fact. Two of my cars had $25k carbon/silicon/carbide rotor'ed brake systems with billet calipers. I suspect you are not aware of what benefits a "real" brake system can offer, particularly on a heavy car. In the interest of having an informed discussion based on facts and not knee-jerk reactions, why don't you dig into that subject? Come back and we can then discuss it again if you like?

Sir I am fully aware of what a great suspension/braking system will do for a car of any size.

The discussion I am trying to have is that if this is a track superstar Camaro that is specifically built for racing warriors. Then its silly to only be able to use it in a friendly track day setting. Just for shits and giggles.

Its like we are saying "Hey look, we took out the carpet, left one speaker, put these massive breaks on it so the less than one half of one percent of the worlds population would be ok to race it in a friendly only setting"

Tell me if you believe they couldn't save 300 lbs elsewhere through materials, or parts that wouldn't compromise it as a daily? If your answer is yes, then they should of gone this route, cut off the ceramics priced it just a hair above the ZL1 and sold a lot more of them to Camaro Enthusiasts.

I mean, unless your saying that factory installed Carbon Ceramics is the ONLY way to go to make a Z/28.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:19 PM   #110
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Sir I am fully aware of what a great suspension/braking system will do for a car of any size.

The discussion I am trying to have is that if this is a track superstar Camaro that is specifically built for racing warriors. Then its silly to only be able to use it in a friendly track day setting. Just for shits and giggles.

Its like we are saying "Hey look, we took out the carpet, left one speaker, put these massive breaks on it so the less than one half of one percent of the worlds population would be ok to race it in a friendly only setting"

Tell me if you believe they couldn't save 300 lbs elsewhere through materials, or parts that wouldn't compromise it as a daily? If your answer is yes, then they should of gone this route, cut off the ceramics priced it just a hair above the ZL1 and sold a lot more of them to Camaro Enthusiasts.

I mean, unless your saying that factory installed Carbon Ceramics is the ONLY way to go to make a Z/28.
What else do you want in it? A stereo? Have a local shop install one. No big deal.
It IMO wont be much more than a ZL1.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:22 PM   #111
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Then it wouldn't be a Z/28. The car was designed for a track. I agree I'd love a car that you speak of. But that's be a street legal strip car which is what I want with the LS7 as a factory install.

Its exactly what I wanted.

Let me propose this to you though man.

If GM said, we cut the sound deadening, removed the carpet, got rid of the speakers and stereo, and the AC to save 300 lbs to make this Z/28.

Then said, Or we could find other areas to save the weight. And still make this car which would you pick?

Does it have to save weight by only pulling out the stereo or AC? Is there disappointment in it not having crank up windows?

You kill the carbon ceramics or even better make it an option. You can still put some killer suspension on it, or a better brake system. Just not one that is about a 10K cost to this car.

Now we have an all around winner.


Its an opinion man.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:24 PM   #112
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They apparently only removed the carpet and sound deadener in the trunk. Big deal put it in.

"Removed interior sound deadener and carpeting from the trunk"

Then order the AC. It's been said over and over again by former GM engineers that crank windows would add weight (and HUGE cost) for new cars.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:28 PM   #113
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What else do you want in it? A stereo? Have a local shop install one. No big deal.
It IMO wont be much more than a ZL1.

LOL...no offense to those that do this. I haven't changed out a head unit on a car since probably the early 90's. Its just not my cup of tea. Don't like the non factory look.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:30 PM   #114
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LOL...no offense to those that do this. I haven't changed out a head unit on a car since probably the early 90's. Its just not my cup of tea. Don't like the non factory look.
Then have speakers put in with the stereo in it.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:32 PM   #115
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They apparently only removed the carpet and sound deadener in the trunk. Big deal put it in.

"Removed interior sound deadener and carpeting from the trunk"

Then order the AC. It's been said over and over again by former GM engineers that crank windows would add weight (and HUGE cost) for new cars.
As for the windows part, its a way of making a point to those who say "well its not a Z/28 then".

Same as when they got rid of flip up lights on the Corvette.

You keep saying put on this and add that. Now my 70-80K Camaro is skyrocketing up in price even more. That's my point. Add stereo, add AC, Add carpeting and sound deadening material. As opposed to using lighter rims or smaller rims. Lighter weight body materials, etc etc.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:33 PM   #116
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Then have speakers put in with the stereo in it.
Maybe Im wrong but didn't I read that the wiring is even deleted.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #117
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As for the windows part, its a way of making a point to those who say "well its not a Z/28 then".

Same as when they got rid of flip up lights on the Corvette.

You keep saying put on this and add that. Now my 70-80K Camaro is skyrocketing up in price even more. That's my point. Add stereo, add AC, Add carpeting and sound deadening material. As opposed to using lighter rims or smaller rims. Lighter weight body materials, etc etc.
I'd say that ship has already sailed...It is what it is, not gonna be different at this point...
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:41 PM   #118
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Maybe Im wrong but didn't I read that the wiring is even deleted.
Dude c'mon?!
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:44 PM   #119
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As for the windows part, its a way of making a point to those who say "well its not a Z/28 then".

Same as when they got rid of flip up lights on the Corvette.

You keep saying put on this and add that. Now my 70-80K Camaro is skyrocketing up in price even more. That's my point. Add stereo, add AC, Add carpeting and sound deadening material. As opposed to using lighter rims or smaller rims. Lighter weight body materials, etc etc.
Really crank windows make it a Z/28?
It obviously has very light weight and smaller rims. I guess you missed my post stating that only the trunk is missing carpet and sound deadening. Your arguments are not reasonable.
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