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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 04-20-2013, 01:59 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
Blah, blah, blah. We all know that there's always people with expensive cars that take them to a dragstrip. In fact, many never take them to any kind of track. There will be Z/28 owners who garage it for a collector/investment; take it to the drags; never go on the track... just cruise around town. Saying that over and over doesn't change the fact that the car is not designed for the dragstrip nor does the market it's designed for care about that.



You realize they're going to still reduce weight in the 6th gen right? It's being discussed and will continue to be discussed multiple times...
Sure they are but without substantially different build materials etc from the ATS the Camaro will not weigh a huge difference from the current Alpha car.
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:07 AM   #202
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Sure they are but without substantially different build materials etc from the ATS the Camaro will not weigh a huge difference from the current Alpha car.
I don't know... after seeing what Stielow and team were willing to do with a car already in existence I wouldn't bet against them doing something extra with a car that's still in the design phase. The nice thing about this kind of effort is that eventually it starts to trickle down to the lower models with lower prices.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Bomino View Post
source?

i just did a quick search on an 06 z06.

3147 lbs (motortrend)

3180 lbs (Wikipedia)

2013 - 3199 lbs (autoweek)


oh my how we have derailed this thread...

"And thanks to a litany of racing-derived components, Z06 weighs in at 3,199 lbs. curb and 3,041 lbs. dry, making it the lightest of the 2013 Corvette models."
This info is from http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-z06-sports-car.html
I'd have to say that is probably the most accurate source for a corvette spec.
BTW, full tank of gas weighs about 140lbs.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:39 PM   #204
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I don't know... after seeing what Stielow and team were willing to do with a car already in existence I wouldn't bet against them doing something extra with a car that's still in the design phase. The nice thing about this kind of effort is that eventually it starts to trickle down to the lower models with lower prices.

Agreed. With the current popularity of the Gen 5 and the need to maintain sales momentum, they would be silly not to make the new camaro hundreds of lbs lighter. That would also greatly increase all aspects of performance anddddd...make a superlight (or more appropriately, track weight) Z28 possible!
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:12 PM   #205
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Curious that so many would object to the proposition that a Z28 would be tested on the 1/4 mile track. The 1/4 mile test is the standard measuring stick for every car magazine on every car they get their hands on. We all draw huge assumptions based on the 1/4 mile and 60' times it will post, as well as braking. Some of the Car Mags post a database of all the cars they've tested and I, for one, generally use that to rack and stack where my car and others fit in.

The original Z28 spent many an hour at the drag strip and most were very pleased with it's performance. I'm guessing, most people who will own a new Z28 will never hit a road course for lots of reasons, mostly that tracks are few and far between and expensive to run, especially since a set of tires could be gone in one track day. The drag strip cost $20 and is a venue where you can legally "open it up". However, some of our military guys lucky enough to get an assignment to Europe will have the blast of a lifetime!

My guess: 12.1@118
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:42 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by ParisTNDude View Post
Curious that so many would object to the proposition that a Z28 would be tested on the 1/4 mile track. The 1/4 mile test is the standard measuring stick for every car magazine on every car they get their hands on. We all draw huge assumptions based on the 1/4 mile and 60' times it will post, as well as braking. Some of the Car Mags post a database of all the cars they've tested and I, for one, generally use that to rack and stack where my car and others fit in.

The original Z28 spent many an hour at the drag strip and most were very pleased with it's performance. I'm guessing, most people who will own a new Z28 will never hit a road course for lots of reasons, mostly that tracks are few and far between and expensive to run, especially since a set of tires could be gone in one track day. The drag strip cost $20 and is a venue where you can legally "open it up". However, some of our military guys lucky enough to get an assignment to Europe will have the blast of a lifetime!

My guess: 12.1@118
It's not that people are opposed to it being tested at 1/4 mile track, it's the notion that there are some people think that the Z/28 should dominate at the 1/4 mile track if it's the new king. This car was introduced as the ultimate Camaro road course car, Have you not heard or seen Jerry Ruess' introduction for the Z/28? He clearly states what the objective of the car is for. The majority of people here already know that.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:55 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by ParisTNDude View Post
Curious that so many would object to the proposition that a Z28 would be tested on the 1/4 mile track. The 1/4 mile test is the standard measuring stick for every car magazine on every car they get their hands on. We all draw huge assumptions based on the 1/4 mile and 60' times it will post, as well as braking. Some of the Car Mags post a database of all the cars they've tested and I, for one, generally use that to rack and stack where my car and others fit in.

The original Z28 spent many an hour at the drag strip and most were very pleased with it's performance. I'm guessing, most people who will own a new Z28 will never hit a road course for lots of reasons, mostly that tracks are few and far between and expensive to run, especially since a set of tires could be gone in one track day. The drag strip cost $20 and is a venue where you can legally "open it up". However, some of our military guys lucky enough to get an assignment to Europe will have the blast of a lifetime!
The concern isn't as much that somebody eventually will run this car at the dragstrip as it is that there are people who would shift the Z/28's publicly-perceived focus away from its road course intent.

Placing so much emphasis on dragstrip stats skews the way the car is viewed even within the enthusiast segment. ETs and trap speeds is one thing, but as soon as you mention 60' times you've shown a clear dragstrip focus and a desire to make a dragstrip car out of the Z/28. That's where the objections lie.

On edit, simply opening it up in a straight line isn't challenging enough for some of us.

Worst downstream case would be for Chevy to listen to the dragstrip moaners about how 7 liters and 500+ HP wasn't performing in a straight line up to expectations, and they proceed to soften the road course capabilities to crutch the dragstrip numbers as a result.


"Standard measuring sticks" aside, we don't all have the drag racer's outlook and don't even think the same way. Suppose the corner-carvers here had asked what skidpad and slalom performances could be expected from the COPOs? With the implication being that some whining would result if those measurements came in below the performance level of, say, a base SS. That's what concentrating on dragstrip results for the Z/28 and hinting at comparisons to the ZL1 sounds like as heard out toward the other end of the enthusiast spectrum. Try to understand.


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Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-02-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:22 PM   #208
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:38 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
The concern isn't as much that somebody eventually will run this car at the dragstrip as it is that there are people who would shift the Z/28's publicly-perceived focus away from its road course intent.

Placing so much emphasis on dragstrip stats skews the way the car is viewed even within the enthusiast segment. ETs and trap speeds is one thing, but as soon as you mention 60' times you've shown a clear dragstrip focus and a desire to make a dragstrip car out of the Z/28. That's where the objections lie.

On edit, simply opening it up in a straight line isn't challenging enough for some of us.

Worst downstream case would be for Chevy to listen to the dragstrip moaners about how 7 liters and 500+ HP wasn't performing in a straight line up to expectations, and they proceed to soften the road course capabilities to crutch the dragstrip numbers as a result.


"Standard measuring sticks" aside, we don't all have the drag racer's outlook and don't even think the same way. Suppose the corner-carvers here had asked what skidpad and slalom performances could be expected from the COPOs? With the implication being that some whining would result if those measurements came in below the performance level of, say, a base SS. That's what concentrating on dragstrip results for the Z/28 and hinting at comparisons to the ZL1 sounds like as heard out toward the other end of the enthusiast spectrum. Try to understand.


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Old 05-02-2013, 04:11 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
The concern isn't as much that somebody eventually will run this car at the dragstrip as it is that there are people who would shift the Z/28's publicly-perceived focus away from its road course intent.

Placing so much emphasis on dragstrip stats skews the way the car is viewed even within the enthusiast segment. ETs and trap speeds is one thing, but as soon as you mention 60' times you've shown a clear dragstrip focus and a desire to make a dragstrip car out of the Z/28. That's where the objections lie.

On edit, simply opening it up in a straight line isn't challenging enough for some of us.

Worst downstream case would be for Chevy to listen to the dragstrip moaners about how 7 liters and 500+ HP wasn't performing in a straight line up to expectations, and they proceed to soften the road course capabilities to crutch the dragstrip numbers as a result.


"Standard measuring sticks" aside, we don't all have the drag racer's outlook and don't even think the same way. Suppose the corner-carvers here had asked what skidpad and slalom performances could be expected from the COPOs? With the implication being that some whining would result if those measurements came in below the performance level of, say, a base SS. That's what concentrating on dragstrip results for the Z/28 and hinting at comparisons to the ZL1 sounds like as heard out toward the other end of the enthusiast spectrum. Try to understand.


Norm
Well said, I think part of the problem in this thread has been both sides though. OP asked a question, and some of the very first responses I have highlighted were pretty negative and harsh. Basically the vibe I got from alot of posters here in this thread was "DONT CARE NOT BUILT FOR IT SO NO ONE SHOULD CARE WHAT IT DOES ON THE 1/4 AND SHOULD NEVER EVEN THINK OF TAKING IT TO THE DRAGSTRIP"

I agree 1/4 is not be all end all performance test but like others said, its gonna be tested in the 1/4, and there will be people who take it there. Maybe the OP just wanted to know if someone challenged him at a stoplight how the Z/28 would fare, or maybe he was just stirring up some conversation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
My guess on the z/28 1/4 times and mph is ZERO because nobody who buys one is going to want to be seen at a FREAKING DRAGSTRIP. I honestly don't get the 1/4 mile thing sometimes. It's not the be-all end-all of performance.
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
No sh*t. Z/28 1/4 mi times: Boring.

Nurburgring, Laguna Seca, VIR, now those are times that show the engineering that went into the car and ones I look forward to learning.

And most critical- can it hold up to do it all day, day after day?

#74 on my Z/28 list of important facts: drag racing performance.
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I mean this with all due respect but I think you are missing the point of this beast. This car is more about handling and the "whole package" than just raw power.....
these are just some of the posts that came off to me as a bit aggressive, its not like the OP asked what it was gonna take to put it in the tens.

And I see where all the Z/28 purists / corner carver guys are coming from too. Yeah the Z/28 is not gonna be a monster on the 1/4 but thats because its going to devour pretty much any car on the race track because thats what this car was built for. That is where this car will excel.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:19 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Well said, I think part of the problem in this thread has been both sides though. OP asked a question, and some of the very first responses I have highlighted were pretty negative and harsh. Basically the vibe I got from alot of posters here in this thread was "DONT CARE NOT BUILT FOR IT SO NO ONE SHOULD CARE WHAT IT DOES ON THE 1/4 AND SHOULD NEVER EVEN THINK OF TAKING IT TO THE DRAGSTRIP"

I agree 1/4 is not be all end all performance test but like others said, its gonna be tested in the 1/4, and there will be people who take it there. Maybe the OP just wanted to know if someone challenged him at a stoplight how the Z/28 would fare, or maybe he was just stirring up some conversation.

these are just some of the posts that came off to me as a bit aggressive, its not like the OP asked what it was gonna take to put it in the tens.

And I see where all the Z/28 purists / corner carver guys are coming from too. Yeah the Z/28 is not gonna be a monster on the 1/4 but thats because its going to devour pretty much any car on the race track because thats what this car was built for. That is where this car will excel.
For sure it's all about the track and whatnot...I get that...but to not take a 427 Camaro down the 1/4 mile?....Who could resist that?...lol...
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:22 PM   #212
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For sure it's all about the track and whatnot...I get that...but to not take a 427 Camaro down the 1/4 mile?....Who could resist that?...lol...
I wouldnt be able to resist that. Hell if I had a Z/28 I would hit up the drag strip for sure, then the next weekend hit up a road track and vice versa.

One of the reasons I would hit up the drag strip, to piss people here off hahahaha but the real reason would be bc I can bc it would my car and I can do whatever the hell I want with it.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:11 AM   #213
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I think part of the problem in this thread has been both sides though. OP asked a question, and some of the very first responses I have highlighted were pretty negative and harsh.
I'm afraid that drag racing a cornering car is one of those "hot-button" topics that will always attract a few heated responses. Just that it may not be widely recognized as such outside the realm of corner-carving.


At my own levels of dragstrip skill(?) and (in)experience, it wouldn't be a snap decision for me to ever drag race a Z/28 even though Atco (apparently one of the places with generally better atmospheric conditions) is only 15 or so miles from my house. Too easy to embarrass both myself and the car. I wouldn't even bet on salvaging enough for a good "if only" bench racing/excuse session afterward.



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Old 05-03-2013, 01:52 PM   #214
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.....ZL1 is made to launch hard, at high RPM's, and even with slicks on it...it's been beefed up mechanically to unbelievably high standards for OEM factory equipment..., now as far as the 1LE, Z-28 rear axle and shafts <likely they will be the same>....dicey proposition for drag racing with hard launches...just sayin...not designed for it, But they will be at the track horsing around in the '1320 non the less. Dumping the clutch isn't required in road racing....and there may be something in the warranty to reflect that. Who knows...
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:53 PM   #215
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a couple of guys have gotten a bone stock with stock tires Z06 into the 10s. A lot are in the 11s.

With drag radials a few more have gotten into the 10 second area.


This camaro is what 300-400lbs heavier but with a drag radial and a great driver - i would think a very low 11 or maybe a high 10 would be possible.

Dumping the clutch at 5000rpm is never ideal (unless you have a beefed up drivetrain and proper slicks) for a launch.

With drag radials and with the gearting - i think this Z/28 could be a monster at the drag strip. I expect to see a few of them once they start rolling out of show rooms
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:35 PM   #216
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a couple of guys have gotten a bone stock with stock tires Z06 into the 10s. A lot are in the 11s.

With drag radials a few more have gotten into the 10 second area.


This camaro is what 300-400lbs heavier but with a drag radial and a great driver - i would think a very low 11 or maybe a high 10 would be possible.

Dumping the clutch at 5000rpm is never ideal (unless you have a beefed up drivetrain and proper slicks) for a launch.

With drag radials and with the gearting - i think this Z/28 could be a monster at the drag strip. I expect to see a few of them once they start rolling out of show rooms
A Z06 is actually about 625 pounds lighter than a Z/28. According the Chevy website the Z06 curb weight is 3175. Everything we have seen on the Z/28 suggests it will weigh about 3800. I doubt it will come anywhere close to a low 11 on just a DR
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:44 PM   #217
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I had this in a different thread, but thought it fit here better.


This IS "Over" 500/500

POWER-TESTING THE FINAL PRODUCT
Livernois Motorsports is experienced at building all kinds of LS engines for street
and racing applications. The company likes the LS7 as a wet-sump engine
because it makes just as much power throughout the rpm band as the stock
dret-sump, installs anywhere a normal LS V-8 engine would go, and has incredible
street cred. The wet-sump LS7 is not for customers wanting a track-ready Pro
Touring car—in that case, the dry-sump version of the LS7 is ideal.
Note: Power numbers are all corrected using correctionf factor SAE J607 (29.92
Hg, 60 degrees F, dry air) and testing was performed with the GM Performance
Parts controller (GM PN 19166567) handling fuel and ignition.
ENGINE SPEED DRY-SUMP WET-SUMP
RPM LB-FT HP LB-FT HP
2,800 438.5 233.8 439.3 234.2
2,900 434.9 240.1 437.9 241.8
3,000 431.4 246.4 438.1 250.3
3,100 437.2 258.0 441.8 260.8
3,200 444.0 270.5 447.9 272.9
3,300 450.1 282.8 454.0 285.3
3,400 452.0 292.6 456.6 295.6
3,500 454.6 302.9 457.8 305.1
3,600 457.0 313.3 460.5 315.6
3,700 464.3 327.1 468.8 330.2
3,800 469.6 339.7 473.1 342.3
3,900 475.2 352.9 483.0 358.6
4,000 480.6 366.0 486.6 370.6
4,100 490.5 382.9 490.3 382.7
4,200 493.4 394.6 498.5 398.7
4,300 495.0 405.3 499.7 409.1
4,400 502.0 421.0 506.9 424.6
4,500 506.6 434.1 508.0 435.3
4,600 509.7 446.4 514.8 450.9
4,700 513.5 459.5 519.5 464.9
4,800 511.5 467.5 518.0 473.4
4,900 514.7 480.2 520.6 485.7
5,000 514.3 489.6 515.5 490.8
5,100 513.8 499.0 520.6 505.0
5,200 510.1 505.1 514.5 509.4
5,300 511.9 516.6 509.0 513.6
5,400 505.2 519.5 508.6 522.9
5,500 506.9 530.8 508.6 532.7
5,600 504.4 537.8 508.7 537.0
5,700 497.9 540.4 501.3 544.0
5,800 493.9 545.5 493.2 544.7
5,900 487.3 547.5 483.6 543.2
6,000 481.3 549.8 485.3 554.4
6,100 477.9 555.0 473.8 550.3
6,200 465.7 549.8 467.3 551.7
6,300 461.8 554.0 460.8 552.7
6,400 450.7 549.3 453.6 552.7
6,500 443.1 548.4 444.0 549.5
6,600 435.1 546.8 435.1 546.8
6,700 426.0 543.5 425.3 542.6
6,800 417.0 539.8 417.8 541.0
6,900 403.8 530.5 407.7 535.6
7,000 395.8 527.5 404.3 538.9
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:59 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
.....ZL1 is made to launch hard, at high RPM's, and even with slicks on it...it's been beefed up mechanically to unbelievably high standards for OEM factory equipment..., now as far as the 1LE, Z-28 rear axle and shafts <likely they will be the same>....dicey proposition for drag racing with hard launches...just sayin...not designed for it, But they will be at the track horsing around in the '1320 non the less. Dumping the clutch isn't required in road racing....and there may be something in the warranty to reflect that. Who knows...
at


Well said!
I recall close to a 100 lbs were saved using the 1LE diff and half shafts over the ZL1 unit.
Additional factors that may hurt the launch is the reduced weight transfer due to stiffer shocks/springs and lowered stance.
The last item I have not researched thus am just guessing, but typically track cars have closer gear spacing between 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th leaving a tall first gear and big gap to 2nd (not good for the drags with sticky tires, easy to burn clutches and/or bog).
I believe 6th will still be used to knock down the effective final drive using the 3.91 rear to get good mpg.
If any one knows the actual Trans gear ratios that would interest me to compare to ZL1 and SS
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:01 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I had this in a different thread, but thought it fit here better.


This IS "Over" 500/500

POWER-TESTING THE FINAL PRODUCT
Livernois Motorsports is experienced at building all kinds of LS engines for street
and racing applications. The company likes the LS7 as a wet-sump engine
because it makes just as much power throughout the rpm band as the stock
dret-sump, installs anywhere a normal LS V-8 engine would go, and has incredible
street cred. The wet-sump LS7 is not for customers wanting a track-ready Pro
Touring car—in that case, the dry-sump version of the LS7 is ideal.
Note: Power numbers are all corrected using correctionf factor SAE J607 (29.92
Hg, 60 degrees F, dry air) and testing was performed with the GM Performance
Parts controller (GM PN 19166567) handling fuel and ignition.
ENGINE SPEED DRY-SUMP WET-SUMP
RPM LB-FT HP LB-FT HP
2,800 438.5 233.8 439.3 234.2
2,900 434.9 240.1 437.9 241.8
3,000 431.4 246.4 438.1 250.3
3,100 437.2 258.0 441.8 260.8
3,200 444.0 270.5 447.9 272.9
3,300 450.1 282.8 454.0 285.3
3,400 452.0 292.6 456.6 295.6
3,500 454.6 302.9 457.8 305.1
3,600 457.0 313.3 460.5 315.6
3,700 464.3 327.1 468.8 330.2
3,800 469.6 339.7 473.1 342.3
3,900 475.2 352.9 483.0 358.6
4,000 480.6 366.0 486.6 370.6
4,100 490.5 382.9 490.3 382.7
4,200 493.4 394.6 498.5 398.7
4,300 495.0 405.3 499.7 409.1
4,400 502.0 421.0 506.9 424.6
4,500 506.6 434.1 508.0 435.3
4,600 509.7 446.4 514.8 450.9
4,700 513.5 459.5 519.5 464.9
4,800 511.5 467.5 518.0 473.4
4,900 514.7 480.2 520.6 485.7
5,000 514.3 489.6 515.5 490.8
5,100 513.8 499.0 520.6 505.0
5,200 510.1 505.1 514.5 509.4
5,300 511.9 516.6 509.0 513.6
5,400 505.2 519.5 508.6 522.9
5,500 506.9 530.8 508.6 532.7
5,600 504.4 537.8 508.7 537.0
5,700 497.9 540.4 501.3 544.0
5,800 493.9 545.5 493.2 544.7
5,900 487.3 547.5 483.6 543.2
6,000 481.3 549.8 485.3 554.4
6,100 477.9 555.0 473.8 550.3
6,200 465.7 549.8 467.3 551.7
6,300 461.8 554.0 460.8 552.7
6,400 450.7 549.3 453.6 552.7
6,500 443.1 548.4 444.0 549.5
6,600 435.1 546.8 435.1 546.8
6,700 426.0 543.5 425.3 542.6
6,800 417.0 539.8 417.8 541.0
6,900 403.8 530.5 407.7 535.6
7,000 395.8 527.5 404.3 538.9
Is this testing on an engine dyno? If so, then the 555 hp @6100 rpm would net 471.75 rwhp with a 15% parasitic loss, correct? What modifications were done to the motor for them to have gained an additional 50 hp over what the Z06 had?
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:10 PM   #220
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No modifications on left side dret sump, converted to wet sump on right side.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:14 PM   #221
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No modifications on left side dret sump, converted to wet sump on right side.
So just changing one side to wet-sump adds 50 HP?
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1976 LT Black/White 305 V8 (Bone Stock) except for Cragar chrome rims (yep - #2)
1985 Z-28 Black/Black 305 L69 M5(Bone Stock) I know: slow

Current Camaro:
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:19 PM   #222
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No one side of the above spreadsheet. The engine obviously has more power than GM has advertised. Hence the "Over" 500/500 in their Z/28 marketing.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:46 PM   #223
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No one side of the above spreadsheet. The engine obviously has more power than GM has advertised. Hence the "Over" 500/500 in their Z/28 marketing.
Oh, ok, Thanks for the explanation...
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1976 LT Black/White 305 V8 (Bone Stock) except for Cragar chrome rims (yep - #2)
1985 Z-28 Black/Black 305 L69 M5(Bone Stock) I know: slow

Current Camaro:
2015 CRT 1SS/1LE RS/Recaro's/NPP/Nav/Rear vision pkg./BA speaker upgrade.

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Old 05-03-2013, 08:00 PM   #224
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You got it!
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:31 PM   #225
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at


Well said!
I recall close to a 100 lbs were saved using the 1LE diff and half shafts over the ZL1 unit.
Additional factors that may hurt the launch is the reduced weight transfer due to stiffer shocks/springs and lowered stance.
The last item I have not researched thus am just guessing, but typically track cars have closer gear spacing between 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th leaving a tall first gear and big gap to 2nd (not good for the drags with sticky tires, easy to burn clutches and/or bog).
I believe 6th will still be used to knock down the effective final drive using the 3.91 rear to get good mpg.
If any one knows the actual Trans gear ratios that would interest me to compare to ZL1 and SS
..
thanks, and here ya' go, 1LE and Z-28 have same ratios <same TR6060>...ZL1 has same ratios except for 5th and 6th

Z-28/1LE TR6060
First 2.66
Second 1.78
Third 1.30
Fourth 1.00
Fifth. .74
Sixth .50
Final drive 3.91
19" wheels

ZL1 TR6060
First 2.66
Second 1.78
Third 1.30
Fourth 1.00
Fifth. .80
Sixth .63
Final drive 3.73
20" wheels
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