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Old 02-12-2008, 04:11 PM   #1
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GM's down for another quater!

Looks like GM posted another quater with a loss. They are now offering buyouts to help cut overhead costs. Will this effect the price of the camaro? Toyota looks like they will be #1 sometime in 08. Any thoughts if GM will cut some of the production lines down and come up with a more standard line of cars?
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Old 02-12-2008, 04:28 PM   #2
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I hate to say it, but the thing that is killing GM is they need an affordable Hybrid. Toyota is killing everyone with their hybrids. If they were to build an hybrid Equinox and a hybrid the size of the Cobalt they would sell tons. I know they are building a hybrid Tahoe and Silverado, but who can really afford them?
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Old 02-12-2008, 04:30 PM   #3
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I think one of their biggest hopes to salvage their sales is the Camaro and that will require the tried and true formula that Mustang is still using: lots of cheap V6's and more expensive/fewer V8's.

In order for the Camaro to survive it'll have to be a high-volume product (as has been stated plenty of times before) and for that to work it'll have to be priced very competitively. GM isn't really known for the expensive, low-volume cars (like Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, etc) so they'll play to their strength.

In short I doubt it'll have much influence on the overall price of the Camaro, but that's just my $.02.
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Old 02-12-2008, 04:57 PM   #4
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I think this is a GREAT time to post this up. GM's not as bad as it seems...you see, media outlets don't EVER tell the WHOLE story. So check this out, Mr. Bob Lutz clears the air:

(found on the GM Fastlane blog)

Quote:
One More Thing About January ...

By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman

You’ve already heard about our financial results for 2007. Yes, we posted a sizable loss, but it was not a surprise. As Rick Wagoner noted this morning, almost all of that loss was attributed to a special charge in the third quarter.

Right now, though, I want to share some little-noticed facts about our January sales.
As you may or may not know, General Motors was one of the few automakers to show an overall sales gain in January, 2.1 percent. However, the big story to us, and it’s one I’ve not seen widely reported, was our 11.2 percent in retail sales.

We had a large, and planned, reduction in fleet sales, most of that to daily rental fleets. And yet to do what we did on the fleet side and still see an increase in overall sales means only one thing… retail sales are up. And that’s exactly what we want to see.

I haven’t read a lot about it … in fact today I just read a story about how Impala sales are “sinking” because of the reduction in sales to daily rentals. While that may be true, technically, the real story, I think, is that in January, Impala retail sales were up 44 percent over last January. That’s an astounding number, one that bodes well for Impala and for Chevrolet.

That’s not all … Cobalt retail sales were up 65 percent, and so were Aveo retail sales. Those numbers represent good quality sales, and good quality market share.

And what they really spell out to me is the simple fact that Malibu (up 58 percent overall and 198 percent retail) is driving Chevrolet showroom traffic, probably including a good number of folks who have never set foot in a Chevy showroom before, or at least not for quite some time.

They come to see this new Malibu everyone’s talking about, and they look around, and they see the Impala, and the Cobalt, and the Aveo, and they see what a great value those cars represent, and they’re buying.

And it’s the same story across the board… Malibu, CTS and Enclave are all selling almost as soon as they come off the haulers. The traffic they’re bringing in is contributing mightily to this overall retail sales boost. It also helped make our January inventory levels the lowest since 1983. There’s an imbalance there, of course, because our truck inventory is high. But overall, our passenger car sales are helping to offset that.

This is a direct result of changing our approach to the market. We used to grab every sale, including daily rentals, no matter how unprofitable or ultimately deteriorating to the value of vehicle and brand. And if we wanted to go back to that, we could probably boost our share back up to 27 percent or so tomorrow.

But we’re in this for the long haul now… to reestablish our brands, to boost our residuals, and to improve the value and image of our vehicles. That’s why the retail sales numbers are so important, and that’s why I’d like to get the word out there about them. Somebody has to.
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:10 PM   #5
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Wow, excellent article Dragon...really helps clear up a lot of the US-car bashing that goes on in the media.
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadHatter99 View Post
Wow, excellent article Dragon...really helps clear up a lot of the US-car bashing that goes on in the media.
It sure does, but It's nothing really.

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Old 02-12-2008, 08:48 PM   #7
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Their massive losses are mostly from that thing in the fall. They posted profits in just about all of their other markets and had greater total sales this past year than in 2006. http://www.reportonbusiness.com/serv...080212.wgm0212
In fact, if it weren't for the lost tax credits and such, they would have probably turned a profit. Most, if not all, of the money that was lost wasn't real, even though it looks massive.


2007 was a so so year for GM, in my mind.
2008 will see a large number of sales of the Malibu, CTS, continued sales of their crossovers, the G8, and so on. Nearly every brand new vehicle the GM has released in the last year is kicking ass. 2008 will reap those benefits that begun in the fall. And in 2009 the Camaro will hit showroom floors.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:30 PM   #8
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Yup, this whole loss thing is really overblown by the media. Yes, the third quarter loss was a loss, but it doesn't reflect on operations. It really was a special item. And the sales gain in January is impressive, considering it was made while reducing fleet sales and while consumer expenditures are weak. Obviously that gain was helped by the Malibu, CTS, and Enclave, and it shows just how good these new products really are. If GM can stop blaming CAFE and using it as an excuse to go back to the bad old days, GM should do alright.
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:51 PM   #9
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Time will tell. I am 90% sure Toyota will pass GM and be the #1 automaker in the US.
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:14 PM   #10
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I thought Toyota already held that distinction?

Also, why is it that big of a surprise that GM is down for a quarter? Virtually every single other company is down as we are on the brink of a recession as I hear (which wouldn't affect Toyota as much with their global market) so... whoopie?
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roflmao View Post
I thought Toyota already held that distinction?

Also, why is it that big of a surprise that GM is down for a quarter? Virtually every single other company is down as we are on the brink of a recession as I hear (which wouldn't affect Toyota as much with their global market) so... whoopie?
Nope. The General Retained that spot this year.

Time will tell for next year, but the chances are neither in their favor, nor against as far as I can tell. GM's overall sales have, in fact, decreased - but that is due mostly to the reduction in rental fleets.

Their retail sales have increased more than 50% on some cars!!!

And just an FYI, both GM and Toyota have a 9+ million vehicle gobal market, so....
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roflmao View Post
I thought Toyota already held that distinction?

Also, why is it that big of a surprise that GM is down for a quarter? Virtually every single other company is down as we are on the brink of a recession as I hear (which wouldn't affect Toyota as much with their global market) so... whoopie?
GM still has a massive homefield advantage. And last time I heard they were the #1 selling maker in every market except Japan, where they don't sell any. They also turned a profit in nearly all the other markets, except for the US.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:35 AM   #13
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Ah didn't realize GM had THAT heavy of an international influence in the market. Still, home base is here and with the economy going the way it is, still makes sense?

Maybe that thing with Toyota was the overall world market? I remember a big article on something with Toyota dethroning something for the first time in history somewhere
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:52 AM   #14
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Hmm, thought I posted this, but it must not have gone through: I personally think being #2 is good for GM. It takes the pressure of keeping the numbers crown off and lets them focus on the real task at hand. Pursuing the #1 spot has done bad things to Toyota. I'll take quality over quantity, and if the product is good, the sales will follow.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stovt001 View Post
Hmm, thought I posted this, but it must not have gone through: I personally think being #2 is good for GM. It takes the pressure of keeping the numbers crown off and lets them focus on the real task at hand. Pursuing the #1 spot has done bad things to Toyota. I'll take quality over quantity, and if the product is good, the sales will follow.
You did post that...it's just been a while and in a different thread over the same topic.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:09 AM   #16
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Ooops, sorry about that. Well, I mean it. A smaller but better GM is just fine with me.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roflmao View Post
Ah didn't realize GM had THAT heavy of an international influence in the market. Still, home base is here and with the economy going the way it is, still makes sense?

Maybe that thing with Toyota was the overall world market? I remember a big article on something with Toyota dethroning something for the first time in history somewhere
They became the most profitable a little while ago, and 1st quarter last year I think they had more sales than GM, but GM made up for that in the second half of the year. In terms of global sales GM is still #1. basically for every two cars they sell in the US, they sell 3 elsewhere. Remember, there are other brands like Saab, Vauxhall, Opel, Holden, that have fairly strong sales in their local markets of Sweeden, England, Germany, and Australia. More Buicks are sold in China than in the US. To them, they rank with BMW's and Acura's. The Aveo (and its clones) is one of the best selling cars in the world. They are still in very good shape in terms of vehicle sales around the world, and in the US market. They will still sell over 3.5 million in North America, and over 5.5 million more around the world. Vehicle sales was roughly $180 billion for GM last year, their costs were about the same. So where did the 38 billion come from? Well simply put, nowhere. I can't fully explain it, but basically from what I understand it was a massive tax deductable or something that had been put off and twisted and tweaked, somehow it ended being 39B in the fall. But nothing like that can happen this year, I assume. Any financial experts on this site? namely corporate taxes?
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:46 AM   #18
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Its just an accounting thing. Its a loss, but not the same type of loss as "well we built tons of cars we couldn't sell". It was strictly an accounting loss. It affects the valuation of the Company and its ability to perform to an extent.
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:19 AM   #19
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And I believe a good chunk of that 38 billion was the payout into the retirement fund for the UAW. That's an ENORMUS plus!! That fund is supposed to last upwards of 80 years: meaning no retirement payouts from GM - it'll take a couple of years to recoupe the payout into the fund - but this is going to free up Lots of money to put into new vehicles, and vehicle quality.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:12 PM   #20
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Ok guys now i feel better because i had a feeling that GM would go outta business or toyoduh is making more and better vehicles or is this true
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:21 AM   #21
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I doubt they will go under just resize and rethink the way they do business. One thinkg they could do is cut the Union out. Unions where once good but now it is all about give me this and I won't sit on my ass for 55 minutes out of each hour. Or pay overtime after 8 hours each day. Wonder why the cost out ways the safety and luxury of each GM car.
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