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Old 04-17-2013, 08:22 PM   #1
mercedestech
 
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Tuning Software Help

Looking to buy tuning software, but not sure which product to go with. My LPE fuel pump came with EFI Live instructions for fixing the fuel level sender values, so I'm leaning towards that software. With the pure hell I have gone through trying to find a local tuner I can trust, I just want to have my own software so I can learn as much as I can about the tune that is in my car. I'm not really wanting to use my car to learn on ( by altering the tune) since it is such a large investment, but I would atleast like to be able to look at the tune that is in there and datalog to look for issues.

I just purchased Greg Banish's books to try and get a handle on all of this, and the next logical step is to buy the software so I can try and learn as much as possible about my tune. I am a Master Mercedes-Benz Technician and shop foreman by trade, and have had enough of relying on others to tune my car. All the work to my car has been done by me...except the tune. I think it's time to get a handle on the tuning side of things, even if my efforts just educate me on the how's and why's.

Just looking for input on which works better or is more user friendly. If anyone has a used V2 efi live package or hp tuners package, please let me know.
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1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:15 PM   #2
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Well I don't have tuning software and don't plan to go buy any. Thus I'll give you an opinion - not a recommendation. Go with the software you think you can leverage with any experts you'd like to dialogue with, have take a look at your data log - etc. For instance if you went with EFI Live you could bounce data, info back and forth with Mike at Vengeance ( IIRC you worked with Vengeance for your original tune ). Or maybe SCT since Ted at Jannetty's works with many people long distance. Or HP tuners if you know an expert there. Then over time you will learn and gain confidence to go it alone but until then it would be nice to have a relationship you could leverage.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:03 PM   #3
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I have HP Tuners and EFI Live and have used both on different vehicles. My local tuners tend to lean more toward HP Tuners, but having used both systems I prefer EFI Live. For the E38 ECM's we are using I think it is better in many respects.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:03 PM   #4
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Any idea who has the best price on efi live? Seems like everyone is around the same price, and its a lot more than hp tuners.
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2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Whipple 2.9L, Rotofab CAI and coil covers, XS Power LT's and full 3" exhaust, Vengeance kaotic cam package (trunion kit,dual springs,titanium retainers,hardened pushrods,c5r chain,ls2 tensioner, melling oil pump) Mgw shifter, 160 deg Tstat, prosport gauges, LPE dual pump, FIC 60lb injectors, level 5 DSS Axles

1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:22 PM   #5
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I use both and prefer efilive.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino79 View Post
I use both and prefer efilive.
Where did you purchase yours, and how did you go about learning to use it?
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1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #7
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HP Tuners is the only one to offer a 2.5 bar custom operating system for these pcm's and delivers in at a much better price at only $649 vs $800+ for efilive, not to mention the cost of their single vcm licenses is 25% more expensive than ours meaning if you start tuning multiple vehicles their costs add up quick.

For boosted Camaro applications the HP Tuners package is going to be a better bet IMO.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill@hptuners View Post
HP Tuners is the only one to offer a 2.5 bar custom operating system for these pcm's and delivers in at a much better price at only $649 vs $800+ for efilive, not to mention the cost of their single vcm licenses is 25% more expensive than ours meaning if you start tuning multiple vehicles their costs add up quick.

For boosted Camaro applications the HP Tuners package is going to be a better bet IMO.
Bill, I thought that was only for the E40 ECM's. Also, it only does speed density, right?
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:39 PM   #9
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Just a few questions. Being that my stock tune was read out by an EFI Live autocal, can hptuners somehow convert this file? I guess I could relaod the stock tune using the autocal, then use HP tuners to read the file from the car so that I have my stock tune in hptuners format. Not sure if that would actually work or not??

Also being that my car was last tuned using efi live, could I just read the current file from the car using hptuners so that I can try and alter the areas that are giving me issues? Or would I have to start all over with the stock tune?

Lastly, does anyone know if hptuners has the correct tables to correct the fuel level sender issues when using a LPE dual pump setup? The LPE instructions come with screen shots of tables in efi live to change to make the fuel gauge work correctly, but nothing for hp tuners.
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2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Whipple 2.9L, Rotofab CAI and coil covers, XS Power LT's and full 3" exhaust, Vengeance kaotic cam package (trunion kit,dual springs,titanium retainers,hardened pushrods,c5r chain,ls2 tensioner, melling oil pump) Mgw shifter, 160 deg Tstat, prosport gauges, LPE dual pump, FIC 60lb injectors, level 5 DSS Axles

1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Bill, I thought that was only for the E40 ECM's. Also, it only does speed density, right?
No we've offered it for E38's for quite some time now as well as a handful of E67 operating systems.

For E38/E67 it can be used for speed density only or maf based.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:30 PM   #11
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Bill, thanks for answering all of my PM's. Will be picking up HP tuners in the morning from Summit Racing. Going with the pro version so I can incorporate my wideband in the tuning process, and do logs without the laptop. Can't wait to dig in. Also a huge thank you to Rhino79 for also putting up with my endless string of questioning.
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2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Whipple 2.9L, Rotofab CAI and coil covers, XS Power LT's and full 3" exhaust, Vengeance kaotic cam package (trunion kit,dual springs,titanium retainers,hardened pushrods,c5r chain,ls2 tensioner, melling oil pump) Mgw shifter, 160 deg Tstat, prosport gauges, LPE dual pump, FIC 60lb injectors, level 5 DSS Axles

1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:24 PM   #12
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I've been using HP Tuners for quite a few years now.Very happy with the software.
I also have the EFILive demo that I take a look at it once in a while.
IMO both are great.
I also have the SCT Pro Racer, I'm still learning on that one.......
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:53 PM   #13
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Thanks for all of the help everyone. I purchased HP tuners pro on Monday, and just got around to installing the software. ALOT different than the tunercats program I used with my 94 LT1! I feel a STEEP learning curve coming on. If any of you guys have advice on how to get started, I'm all ears. I purchased two of Greg Banish's books, and have been reading the HP Tuners forums for the last two nights non stop. I'm not even going to attempt to change anything in the tune until I learn as much as I possibly can. So post up your recomendations on starting points, reference material etc.
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1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:49 AM   #14
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:45 PM   #15
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I don't know if I ask the wrong questions or what. I never seem to get many responses to anything I post. I know there are a lot of tuners on this forum, and you all had to start somewhere, so how about helping a fellow gearhead out? Just looking for a starting point or advice on what not to do!
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2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Whipple 2.9L, Rotofab CAI and coil covers, XS Power LT's and full 3" exhaust, Vengeance kaotic cam package (trunion kit,dual springs,titanium retainers,hardened pushrods,c5r chain,ls2 tensioner, melling oil pump) Mgw shifter, 160 deg Tstat, prosport gauges, LPE dual pump, FIC 60lb injectors, level 5 DSS Axles

1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:42 PM   #16
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Email sent, a long one....lol
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedestech View Post
I don't know if I ask the wrong questions or what. I never seem to get many responses to anything I post. I know there are a lot of tuners on this forum, and you all had to start somewhere, so how about helping a fellow gearhead out? Just looking for a starting point or advice on what not to do!

I got the Greg Banish DVD and it has helped me a lot, Definitely not something that's easy to learn.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:46 PM   #18
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Thanks guys! Great email Ryan, thanks so much!
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1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:04 AM   #19
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We have hptuners and efi live but lean towards hptuners. We do package a tune with hptuners if you are interested. It's a great way to get your feet wet tuning without the risk of hurting anything all while getting a professional result
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin@PCMofNC View Post
We have hptuners and efi live but lean towards hptuners. We do package a tune with hptuners if you are interested. It's a great way to get your feet wet tuning without the risk of hurting anything all while getting a professional result
Thanks Alvin. I don't think i'll hurt anything....just going to take awhile to get it dialed in. I'm not new to what makes an engine live or die, just new to trying to tune it myself. I think as long as I make small changes at a time and keep an eye on my logs and wideband, I'll be ok. After all of the information I gathered this week, I have A LOT of respect for you seasoned tuners. You guys make this look easy, and it's anything but easy!
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2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Whipple 2.9L, Rotofab CAI and coil covers, XS Power LT's and full 3" exhaust, Vengeance kaotic cam package (trunion kit,dual springs,titanium retainers,hardened pushrods,c5r chain,ls2 tensioner, melling oil pump) Mgw shifter, 160 deg Tstat, prosport gauges, LPE dual pump, FIC 60lb injectors, level 5 DSS Axles

1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:52 PM   #21
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Its really not a easy job I would say. It is literally something that just comes with experience. We started as a tune only shop that moved into full speed shop. You just don't know until you live and breath tuning for YEARS (12 professionally for me). It is a fun hobby especially those handy with math, stats, excel, etc. The scanners in EFIlive and HPtuners has made it enormously more user friendly. We used to have to crunch the numbers the good ole fashion hard way!
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Alvin@PCMofNC View Post
Its really not a easy job I would say. It is literally something that just comes with experience. We started as a tune only shop that moved into full speed shop. You just don't know until you live and breath tuning for YEARS (12 professionally for me). It is a fun hobby especially those handy with math, stats, excel, etc. The scanners in EFIlive and HPtuners has made it enormously more user friendly. We used to have to crunch the numbers the good ole fashion hard way!
Like I said, I have ALOT of respect for you guys. I figure everyone had to start somewhere, so I'm giving it a shot. I'm very grateful so many of you professional tuners have been kind enough to give me advice and help me get started. I played with tunercats back in the day, but this is a whole new ballgame.
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2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Whipple 2.9L, Rotofab CAI and coil covers, XS Power LT's and full 3" exhaust, Vengeance kaotic cam package (trunion kit,dual springs,titanium retainers,hardened pushrods,c5r chain,ls2 tensioner, melling oil pump) Mgw shifter, 160 deg Tstat, prosport gauges, LPE dual pump, FIC 60lb injectors, level 5 DSS Axles

1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:25 AM   #23
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Oh yeah, I started with tuning about 8-10 years ago as a hobby, and it takes doing it daily for quite some time to really learn the ins and outs. As always, if you have any questions along the way, bounce them off of me.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:08 PM   #24
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Oh yeah, I started with tuning about 8-10 years ago as a hobby, and it takes doing it daily for quite some time to really learn the ins and outs. As always, if you have any questions along the way, bounce them off of me.
Thanks Ryan, I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions once I get into things a little more. Work has been crazy, so I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. I'll keep you posted!
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2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Whipple 2.9L, Rotofab CAI and coil covers, XS Power LT's and full 3" exhaust, Vengeance kaotic cam package (trunion kit,dual springs,titanium retainers,hardened pushrods,c5r chain,ls2 tensioner, melling oil pump) Mgw shifter, 160 deg Tstat, prosport gauges, LPE dual pump, FIC 60lb injectors, level 5 DSS Axles

1994 Z28 MSD optispark, K&N CAI, Magnaflow y pipe..Cat..and cat back. 1998 wheels, custom tune(sold )
1993 Base V6 sold to buy Z28
1994 Purple Pearl V6...sold
1979 Base Car with inline 250ci 6 cyl! My first car in 1989!
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:42 PM   #25
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Lastly, does anyone know if hptuners has the correct tables to correct the fuel level sender issues when using a LPE dual pump setup? The LPE instructions come with screen shots of tables in efi live to change to make the fuel gauge work correctly, but nothing for hp tuners.
We've added the tables to the newest build, which will be available tomorrow morning, 2.24.189 & newer to the 3 main Camaro os id's ie 12639270, 12633056 & 12637084.
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