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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 06-28-2013, 05:44 PM   #26
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To maximize your results, yes.
Ok but I feel lost, doesn't the size of the lifters depend on the size of the cam?
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:15 PM   #27
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I think Chase should start one of those Sunday morning car shows. Nice to be able to learn something instead of watching a half hour of product plugs.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:05 PM   #28
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Ok but I feel lost, doesn't the size of the lifters depend on the size of the cam?
No, the lifter size is determined by the hole in the block that they fit in.
The pushrod length changes sometimes, depending on the cup where the bottom of the pushrod sits in the lifter is. I think a LS7 lifter is taller.

The rocker arm ratio can change the dynamic of the valve events. A 1.8:1 rocker ratio will increase lift and duration.

The engine seems to want to stall at times because the valves are open at the same time, bleeding off compression, or cylinder pressure. At higher RPM this happens too fast to make a big difference. So the engine runs smooth.

Some cams have a few degrees of advance built into them this lowers where the Power will be made in RPM's.this is called the power band.

Now lets confuse them some more. On the automatic cars with the L99 engine we have what is called Variable Valve Timing cams, this automatically advances and retards the cam. It will have both , low end power and upper end power.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:36 PM   #29
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Don't most L99 do the LS3 conversion to avoid all that anyway? Meaning the VVT
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:45 PM   #30
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Ok but I feel lost, doesn't the size of the lifters depend on the size of the cam?
No the lifters stay the same!
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:56 PM   #31
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Don't most L99 do the LS3 conversion to avoid all that anyway? Meaning the VVT
Some do and have done in the past, but the technology has advance so that you can almost get the best of both worlds, Meaning good drivability and high horsepower with aftermarket cams. L99 engines change cam degrees up to 50 degrees, but with a bigger cam a limiter is used. L99 engines have a little lower compression because they have valve reliefs in the pistons.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:57 PM   #32
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No, the lifter size is determined by the hole in the block that they fit in.
The pushrod length changes sometimes, depending on the cup where the bottom of the pushrod sits in the lifter is. I think a LS7 lifter is taller.

The rocker arm ratio can change the dynamic of the valve events. A 1.8:1 rocker ratio will increase lift and duration.

The engine seems to want to stall at times because the valves are open at the same time, bleeding off compression, or cylinder pressure. At higher RPM this happens too fast to make a big difference. So the engine runs smooth.

Some cams have a few degrees of advance built into them this lowers where the Power will be made in RPM's.this is called the power band.

Now lets confuse them some more. On the automatic cars with the L99 engine we have what is called Variable Valve Timing cams, this automatically advances and retards the cam. It will have both , low end power and upper end power.
All lifter bores are the same. The pushrod lengths are determined with usually .050 lifter preload on the lifters plus the distance of the lifter cup to the rocker cup.

Yes a 1.8 will add lift BUT you will be having to use ALOT spring pressure to help control the valves! Especially with an aftermarket cam and better lobes. 1.8 rockers are a bad idea on a 1.7 ratio cam.

Not all cams have OVERLAP (when both valves are open at the same time! So I'm not sure what your trying to say. Cars might want to stall be ause they are untuned or poorly tuned.

I think you need to do some more reading because a cam is advanced it doesn't mean the "power band" will be lower.

So please stop spreading Internet misinformation.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:03 PM   #33
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Don't most L99 do the LS3 conversion to avoid all that anyway? Meaning the VVT
They do that mainly because there are no tuners that cam properly tune a VVT cam OR they just prefer a traditional 3 bolt cam and traditional tune.

Rhino79 has proven to be very good at tuning L99's and has had a few new cam grinds from mild to gawd damn!

A good way to keep drivability is to have a matched torque converter to the cam you select.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:30 PM   #34
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No the lifters stay the same!
Then what does change?

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They do that mainly because there are no tuners that cam properly tune a VVT cam OR they just prefer a traditional 3 bolt cam and traditional tune.

Rhino79 has proven to be very good at tuning L99's and has had a few new cam grinds from mild to gawd damn!

A good way to keep drivability is to have a matched torque converter to the cam you select.
So if I get a cam with a big overlap that loses drivability right? And you're saying that a torque converter will give it drivability?
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:41 PM   #35
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What changes are the base diameter of the cam if its that big, is what changes needing a longer pushrod. But most cams will usually require 7.4's chromoly of course. That's when proper pushrod length checkers come in. You gotta measure for peace of mind.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:44 PM   #36
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Yes the bigger the cam the bigger the stall speed some will require a certain stall speed some might like a loose converter others like is tight. You just gotta ask the vender from where the cam is coming from which converter would be optimal. Gears will also help tame that beast as well. It's called supporting mods bud. It's all gotta compliment each other.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:51 PM   #37
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All lifter bores are the same. The pushrod lengths are determined with usually .050 lifter preload on the lifters plus the distance of the lifter cup to the rocker cup.

Yes a 1.8 will add lift BUT you will be having to use ALOT spring pressure to help control the valves! Especially with an aftermarket cam and better lobes. 1.8 rockers are a bad idea on a 1.7 ratio cam.

Not all cams have OVERLAP (when both valves are open at the same time! So I'm not sure what your trying to say. Cars might want to stall be ause they are untuned or poorly tuned.

I think you need to do some more reading because a cam is advanced it doesn't mean the "power band" will be lower.

So please stop spreading Internet misinformation.
I never said all Cams have overlap, but a cam with a lot of duration and a narrow LSA will have a lot of overlap causing the LOPEY sound most Hot Rodders Like. Which I assumed the guy was talking about when he said the engine sounded like it was stalling.

Not all engines have the same lifter bores. ALL Gen3&4 LS engines do, but a Smallblock 2nd gen engine is a different lifter bore.

Read more: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...#ixzz2LgrKsAqK

Advancing the valve events boosts low-end torque at the expense of high-rpm horsepower, while retarding the cam has the opposite effect.

Since arranging the valve events to boost high-rpm horsepower hurts low-rpm torque, and vice versa, the installed centerline of a camshaft is ultimately a compromise, however, the beauty of VVT systems is that they eliminate this compromise entirely by advancing the cam phasing at low rpm, and slowly retarding it as rpm increases. This allows maximizing low-end torque without compromising top end power, and maximizing top end power without compromising low-end torque. Furthermore, VVT also broadens the torque curve before the peak, and prevents horsepower from dropping off rapidly after the horsepower peak. “With variable valve timing, we typically see a 5-10 percent improvement in output at the ends of the torque and power curves,” Godbold says. “This means that torque output will improve dramatically 1,000-2,000 rpm below the torque peak, and the engine will continue making usable power up to 1,000 rpm above its power peak instead of falling off a table. Clearly, VVT flattens the torque curve substantially. (Billy Godbold is Comp Cams Guy.)

As one of the few companies that offer VVT-equipped crate motors, Mast Motorsports has conducted extensive dyno testing of GM’s VVT system on its 416ci L99 motors, which are rated at 595 hp. Retarding the cam for max top end grunt typically yields roughly 610 hp and 555 lb-ft of torque. Advancing the cam for max low-end performance nets 592 hp and 565 lb-ft of torque. It’s the classic case of compromise, but engaging the VVT results in a pull that retains both the peak horsepower (610) and peak torque of 565 lb-ft from the two prior pulls.

When tuned for maximum torque, Mast Motorsports’ 416ci L99 prefers 5 degrees of advance, while it produces maximum horsepower with 4 degrees of retard. To fully take advantage of the VVT system, however, Mast advances the cam an additional 2-3 degrees at idle and retards the cam an extra 4-5 degrees at 7,000 rpm. This not only bulks up low-end torque below the engine’s torque peak, but it also dramatically reduces the rate at which horsepower drops off after the engine’s 6,400-rpm power peak. Compared to when the cam is advanced for max torque, retarding the cam for max power produces 18 extra peak horsepower at 6,400 rpm. By continually delaying the intake closing after peak power, at 6,900 rpm the difference is a staggering 40 hp.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:00 AM   #38
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Umm we are talking about Ls blocks here Gen 3/4 here. So now your going to cut and paste? Lol oh boy
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:01 AM   #39
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Yes the bigger the cam the bigger the stall speed some will require a certain stall speed some might like a loose converter others like is tight. You just gotta ask the vender from where the cam is coming from which converter would be optimal. Gears will also help tame that beast as well. It's called supporting mods bud. It's all gotta compliment each other.
This is what I'm trying to understand first what to do to support the cam, gears I understand but I don't get much else I'm sorry if I'm thread hacking and making this beyond the basics
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:22 AM   #40
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This is what I'm trying to understand first what to do to support the cam, gears I understand but I don't get much else I'm sorry if I'm thread hacking and making this beyond the basics
Ok well you got the tq converter and gears, as far a drivetrain is concerned you'll also need a bigger Trans cooler. Stalls create heat.

To support the cam you'll need IMHO a katech C5r chain, matching valve springs to the cam (I am a fan of the BTR aka Brian Tooley platinum springs which have a "0" failure rate) you'll need to delete that weak chain tensioner for the Ls3 and put the Ls2 dampner. You'll also need a trunion upgrade by comp, up to you on the pump. L99's have proven to be good bit mellings 10296 is an upgrade to to the materials and blue printing already on it, and higher oil pressures. You'll also need a good set of headers. Depending on the mileage get new GM lifters or BTR SLR lifters. Then there the morel/lunaty link bar lifters.

Hope that helps.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:25 AM   #41
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Umm we are talking about Ls blocks here Gen 3/4 here. So now your going to cut and paste? Lol oh boy
I'm using that reference to make a point, and yes when someone tries to cut me down and make me sound stupid, I will prove them wrong by cutting and pasting and providing a link.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:41 AM   #42
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Well you posted some wrong info, with you stating Ls7 lifters are taller tells me that you are a novice, so please I suggest you keep reading and or ask questions. If you feel that you can't take being corrected then I don't know what to say, I am not here to make enemies either (per your pm) but I don't suger coat anything and I just say it like it is sir.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:04 AM   #43
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I haven't only worked on 6.2L engines, I've had my first LS style engine since 2001 it came in a truck it's actually a LM7 5.3L. I put the LS7 lifters in it and I checked the length. I needed a 7.375 Pushrod. I believe if I remember correctly it was confirmed on LS1tech and on performancetruck.net. I think all the engines are using LS7 lifters now.
I'm not a novice and I appreciate you calling me sir, that shows you have some manners. I've worked on Fords, and Chrysler engines too, The first I remember is chrysler slant 6 from a 65 Valiant. I was about 9 the engine was just 4 years younger. I don't think anything I posted was wrong, you just didn't understand it the right way and what I copied and pasted proves it.And if I read right we weren't being engine specific, just CAM BASICS.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:51 AM   #44
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Ok well you got the tq converter and gears, as far a drivetrain is concerned you'll also need a bigger Trans cooler. Stalls create heat.

To support the cam you'll need IMHO a katech C5r chain, matching valve springs to the cam (I am a fan of the BTR aka Brian Tooley platinum springs which have a "0" failure rate) you'll need to delete that weak chain tensioner for the Ls3 and put the Ls2 dampner. You'll also need a trunion upgrade by comp, up to you on the pump. L99's have proven to be good bit mellings 10296 is an upgrade to to the materials and blue printing already on it, and higher oil pressures. You'll also need a good set of headers. Depending on the mileage get new GM lifters or BTR SLR lifters. Then there the morel/lunaty link bar lifters.

Hope that helps.

The only thing I've done inside my engine bay is my CAI intake, my ARH headers and a catch can, that list you have in your post I've seen before and yes it does help cause I can use it to get more opinions thank you

I've also see guys install a stall converter with their cams, I'm guessing that's on the bigger cams and doesn't allow the car to stall like you guys were talking about when it sounds like its ready to shut down?

Also should I port my heads at the same time to save time and energy down the road? And any other mods that make sense at the same time but doesn't neccisserally have to support the cam that I should do?


Thanks again for your help, I may not get it 100% but I do understand more now then 2 days ago
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Old 06-29-2013, 06:01 AM   #45
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I've also see guys install a stall converter with their cams, I'm guessing that's on the bigger cams and doesn't allow the car to stall like you guys were talking about when it sounds like its ready to shut down?
Torque Converter Basics
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:27 AM   #46
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Thank you Chase
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:23 AM   #47
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When changing Cams, I would just to be safe install new lifters.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:31 AM   #48
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It was easier on the SBC but to change these lifters on gen3/4 and 5's you need to remove the heads and most folks won't want to go thru the hassle of changing them.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:05 PM   #49
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When changing Cams, I would just to be safe install new lifters.
Agreed. I added rods and a spring set when I did mine
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:11 PM   #50
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Supporting mods are always critical to reliability. Do it right and do it once.
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