Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
SDTW Custom Wheels & Tires
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Specific Models / Packages > Camaro 1LE Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-19-2013, 04:47 AM   #1
X25


 
X25's Avatar
 
Drives: '16 C7 Z51
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 3,051
Known issues (road-course) tracking 1LEs?

I am seriously considering getting a 1SS 1LE and use it for track days, and was wondering if there are ny known issues with these cars. A few possible concerns that come to my mind:
- It does not come with a dry-sump, and LS3s without it suffer at the track on Corvettes. Any possibility for oil starvation? I heard of upgraded oil pickup points in the pan, but that sounds more like a mitigation than solution.
- Does it eat brakes? It is quite heavy; what pads do you guys use?
- Does it need brake cooling upgrades? How do the brakes hold up at the track?
- How are the seats? Do they provide enough support, or do people usualy go with aftermarket?
X25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 08:33 AM   #2
toehead93


 
Drives: 2014 2SS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: wpb fl
Posts: 3,130
I believe the pickups are for fuel not oil. Brakes are the same as the SS so they will be eaten depending how hard you are on them, faster higher speed tracks that require more braking will be worse. I suggest high temp fluid and stainless braided brake lines. I have Hawk HP plus pads so i cannot speak for the stock pads. The seats are ok, the 2014 recaros will be much better, i was flying around my car last weekend in Daytona and plan to get CG locks for my car to hold me in place, i will be able to use them on my 2014 1LE with recaros.
__________________
Used Racing Brake 2 Peice Rotors for sale:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344754

Summit White 2014 2SS 1LE
Recaros, NPP exhaust, Nav
2010 2SS A6 - sold.
toehead93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:05 AM   #3
Dropspeed
2013 Camaro SS1LECTSVZ28
 
Dropspeed's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 AGM 1SS/1LE
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Suburbs of Detroit, MI
Posts: 2,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
...... The seats are ok, the 2014 recaros will be much better, i was flying around my car last weekend in Daytona and plan to get CG locks for my car to hold me in place, i will be able to use them on my 2014 1LE with recaros.
If you were flying around your car because the seats are not supporting you the CG lock will not help as it only keeps the belt tight. Save your money, take the male end of the seat belt and rotate it 180 degrees before inserting it into the female end.....then grab the portion that goes across your chest and pull it up and this will tighten up the belt the same way a CG lock does.
__________________
Dropspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 11:37 AM   #4
JJKJ
 
JJKJ's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS 1LE
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Marion, Ia
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozer View Post
I am seriously considering getting a 1SS 1LE and use it for track days, and was wondering if there are ny known issues with these cars. A few possible concerns that come to my mind:
- It does not come with a dry-sump, and LS3s without it suffer at the track on Corvettes. Any possibility for oil starvation? I heard of upgraded oil pickup points in the pan, but that sounds more like a mitigation than solution.
- Does it eat brakes? It is quite heavy; what pads do you guys use?
- Does it need brake cooling upgrades? How do the brakes hold up at the track?
- How are the seats? Do they provide enough support, or do people usualy go with aftermarket?
I see you come from the Corvette world as well so you're aware of the sustained high-g corner starvation issue with the LS3. I think it wasn't an issue with Camaros in the past because unless they were modified, they couldn't obtain the sustained 1+g necessary to create the starvation issue.

The 1LE is the first LS3-equipped Camaro to obtain the 1+g lateral capability. I'm curious to see if we start to see the same failures at the track that the Corvette community experienced prior to the GS dry-sump option.

The 1LE just hit the streets last fall and the weather hasn't turned enough for many of us to have much track time (except those lucky SoCal folks). I can tell you that the pads aren't nearly aggressive as my GS pads were so I'm not expecting much for heavy track use.

I'll wait to see what the '14 Recaros bring for seat improvement, but expect that I'll be replacing the driver's seat with a track-oriented seat. I've done just one autox with mine and without any bolster adjustment or the seatbelt cinch feature the Corvette had, there isn't much holding you in place during cornering. In addition, if you are 6' or more (I'm 6'2"), you'll need a seat that sits lower to comfortably clear a helmet.
__________________
John
13 VR 2SS/RS 1LE (sold)
01 Z28 M6 HT
JJKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:16 PM   #5
gajagfan


 
gajagfan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 3,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJKJ View Post
I see you come from the Corvette world as well so you're aware of the sustained high-g corner starvation issue with the LS3. I think it wasn't an issue with Camaros in the past because unless they were modified, they couldn't obtain the sustained 1+g necessary to create the starvation issue.

The 1LE is the first LS3-equipped Camaro to obtain the 1+g lateral capability. I'm curious to see if we start to see the same failures at the track that the Corvette community experienced prior to the GS dry-sump option.

The 1LE just hit the streets last fall and the weather hasn't turned enough for many of us to have much track time (except those lucky SoCal folks). I can tell you that the pads aren't nearly aggressive as my GS pads were so I'm not expecting much for heavy track use.

I'll wait to see what the '14 Recaros bring for seat improvement, but expect that I'll be replacing the driver's seat with a track-oriented seat. I've done just one autox with mine and without any bolster adjustment or the seatbelt cinch feature the Corvette had, there isn't much holding you in place during cornering. In addition, if you are 6' or more (I'm 6'2"), you'll need a seat that sits lower to comfortably clear a helmet.
Do you have the sun roof, or is the helmet issue a problem even if you do not have one. I sat in a non-sun roof car, and thought there was plenty of room (about 6'2" also), but I did not have my helmet on.
gajagfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 02:09 PM   #6
toehead93


 
Drives: 2014 2SS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: wpb fl
Posts: 3,130
I'm 6'-4" with the seat all the way down I fit in.
__________________
Used Racing Brake 2 Peice Rotors for sale:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344754

Summit White 2014 2SS 1LE
Recaros, NPP exhaust, Nav
2010 2SS A6 - sold.
toehead93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 02:10 PM   #7
BlackinBlack

 
BlackinBlack's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Corvette Z06 Blade Silver
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJKJ View Post
I see you come from the Corvette world as well so you're aware of the sustained high-g corner starvation issue with the LS3. I think it wasn't an issue with Camaros in the past because unless they were modified, they couldn't obtain the sustained 1+g necessary to create the starvation issue.

The 1LE is the first LS3-equipped Camaro to obtain the 1+g lateral capability. I'm curious to see if we start to see the same failures at the track that the Corvette community experienced prior to the GS dry-sump option.
I believe the oil pan on the Camaro LS3 is different than the wet sump LS3 pan on the Corvette . From what I understand it is deeper and holds more oil (8QT vs 6QT). A deep pan with more oil should allow for better immersion of the pickup and prevent oil starvation. The ZL1 LSA also is wet sump and no one has reported issues on all the tracked ZL1 cars. There are a bunch that have a ton of track time too.
__________________
2016 2LZ Z06 Blade Silver

2013 ZL1 BLACK on BLACK <SOLD>
Roto-Fab CAI

2010 2SS/RS BLACK on BLACK <SOLD>
3" MBRP 304 Stainless Exhaust
Roto-Fab CAI
BlackinBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 03:54 PM   #8
JJKJ
 
JJKJ's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS 1LE
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Marion, Ia
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
Do you have the sun roof, or is the helmet issue a problem even if you do not have one. I sat in a non-sun roof car, and thought there was plenty of room (about 6'2" also), but I did not have my helmet on.
No sunroof, this is track car. I thought I would have plenty of room too because I can sit in my car with a hat on without rubbing the roof. I was surprised when I put the helmet on and rubbed the roof.
__________________
John
13 VR 2SS/RS 1LE (sold)
01 Z28 M6 HT
JJKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 03:57 PM   #9
JJKJ
 
JJKJ's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS 1LE
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Marion, Ia
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackinBlack View Post
I believe the oil pan on the Camaro LS3 is different than the wet sump LS3 pan on the Corvette . From what I understand it is deeper and holds more oil (8QT vs 6QT). A deep pan with more oil should allow for better immersion of the pickup and prevent oil starvation. The ZL1 LSA also is wet sump and no one has reported issues on all the tracked ZL1 cars. There are a bunch that have a ton of track time too.
You car correct sir, and bring up a point I had forgotten about the oil pan differences.
__________________
John
13 VR 2SS/RS 1LE (sold)
01 Z28 M6 HT
JJKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 03:58 PM   #10
X25


 
X25's Avatar
 
Drives: '16 C7 Z51
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 3,051
Quote:
Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
I believe the pickups are for fuel not oil. Brakes are the same as the SS so they will be eaten depending how hard you are on them, faster higher speed tracks that require more braking will be worse. I suggest high temp fluid and stainless braided brake lines. I have Hawk HP plus pads so i cannot speak for the stock pads. The seats are ok, the 2014 recaros will be much better, i was flying around my car last weekend in Daytona and plan to get CG locks for my car to hold me in place, i will be able to use them on my 2014 1LE with recaros.
Himm, a BBK might be in order, then. How about cooling? I guess it doesn't hurt to put good brake ducting on a car that weighs 3880 lbs, either

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
If you were flying around your car because the seats are not supporting you the CG lock will not help as it only keeps the belt tight. Save your money, take the male end of the seat belt and rotate it 180 degrees before inserting it into the female end.....then grab the portion that goes across your chest and pull it up and this will tighten up the belt the same way a CG lock does.
I didn't like CG-lock. It clearly bites into the seat belt fabric, and I'm sure it will compromise its integrity in the long run. Moreover, it is quite balky, and you can honestly have the same effect by pushing your seat all the way back, locking your seat-belt (by jerking it fast), and pushing the seat back to its normal position, further tightening it so the seat belt lock would not release. A $10 foam seat belt cover by your torso would also help at this case

To be honest, I don't even do this seat belt lock trick anymore. I bought a torso belt from G-Force (pic below), and I use it to lock my butt to the seat. I learned that as long as my but does not move, it doesn't matter if my upper body moves a bit, I can still down-shift and brake without interference of my belly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JJKJ View Post
I see you come from the Corvette world as well so you're aware of the sustained high-g corner starvation issue with the LS3. I think it wasn't an issue with Camaros in the past because unless they were modified, they couldn't obtain the sustained 1+g necessary to create the starvation issue.

The 1LE is the first LS3-equipped Camaro to obtain the 1+g lateral capability. I'm curious to see if we start to see the same failures at the track that the Corvette community experienced prior to the GS dry-sump option.

The 1LE just hit the streets last fall and the weather hasn't turned enough for many of us to have much track time (except those lucky SoCal folks). I can tell you that the pads aren't nearly aggressive as my GS pads were so I'm not expecting much for heavy track use.

I'll wait to see what the '14 Recaros bring for seat improvement, but expect that I'll be replacing the driver's seat with a track-oriented seat. I've done just one autox with mine and without any bolster adjustment or the seatbelt cinch feature the Corvette had, there isn't much holding you in place during cornering. In addition, if you are 6' or more (I'm 6'2"), you'll need a seat that sits lower to comfortably clear a helmet.
I thought about changing my seats in my Z06 as well, but recently decided not to do so for a car that is driven at the street, too:
  1. Most aftermarket set-ups that preserve the sliders end up increasing the seat height. The fixed (side) mount seats are a pain at the street, and is also cumbersome when someone else needs to use your car (like service, for instance).
  2. 4 pt. seat belt harnesses let you submarine, so you need to use 5/6 pt. harnesses. When you do, you will be pinned to the seat, which has catastrophic affects besides its benefits:
  3. During an accident, your body will be pinned, while your head will move freely, seriously jeopardizing your spine/stem. You will have to use a helmet with a HANS device at all times for your safety. Clearly, you cannot do this at the street, so you will have to use stock seat belts at the street.
  4. When you do, especially if you chose to go with a seat that has high bolsters by the sides, the seat belt will not cover your lap as good as it does on a stock seat, letting you very easily submarine during an accident.
  5. Going back to using it at the track, now that you are 'pinned' to the seat, you will be yet another 'column' along with the A/B columns of the car that holds the roof in its place. If you happen to flip the car, if your roof collapses, your head will be right there as a 'structural member' to push it back!! If you used a stock seat with stock belts, your body would most likely find a spot to fit in without becoming a structural member. Race cars avoid this issue by the use of mandatory roll-cage; will you have a roll cage in your daily driven car?
  6. Finally, there are stories of people who had their warranty claim rejected just because the service manager (or GM rep) saw racing seats/harness and decided the car is actually used for racing. So you would need to remove all that every time you go to the service, in case someone short-sighted in the service chain judges you on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackinBlack View Post
I believe the oil pan on the Camaro LS3 is different than the wet sump LS3 pan on the Corvette . From what I understand it is deeper and holds more oil (8QT vs 6QT). A deep pan with more oil should allow for better immersion of the pickup and prevent oil starvation. The ZL1 LSA also is wet sump and no one has reported issues on all the tracked ZL1 cars. There are a bunch that have a ton of track time too.
Camaro's LS3 certainly does not have a solution as elegant as the dry sump in Corvette Grand Sports. If I recall correctly, the problem was with long 1+ G left-hand turns where the oil pick-up gets just air. If the upgraded oil pan works fine to remedy this situation and if it fits, it could be a big hit for the non-dry-sump-LS3 Corvette owners, too
X25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 04:05 PM   #11
gajagfan


 
gajagfan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 3,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJKJ View Post
No sunroof, this is track car. I thought I would have plenty of room too because I can sit in my car with a hat on without rubbing the roof. I was surprised when I put the helmet on and rubbed the roof.
I may be equally surprised! I should know in a couple more weeks. Thanks for the info!
gajagfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 05:32 PM   #12
Bad@ssCamaro
Rogers' Rocks :-)
 
Bad@ssCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 1SS/1LE
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Western MA
Posts: 5,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozer View Post
Himm, a BBK might be in order, then. How about cooling? I guess it doesn't hurt to put good brake ducting on a car that weighs 3880 lbs, either


I didn't like CG-lock. It clearly bites into the seat belt fabric, and I'm sure it will compromise its integrity in the long run. Moreover, it is quite balky, and you can honestly have the same effect by pushing your seat all the way back, locking your seat-belt (by jerking it fast), and pushing the seat back to its normal position, further tightening it so the seat belt lock would not release. A $10 foam seat belt cover by your torso would also help at this case

To be honest, I don't even do this seat belt lock trick anymore. I bought a torso belt from G-Force (pic below), and I use it to lock my butt to the seat. I learned that as long as my but does not move, it doesn't matter if my upper body moves a bit, I can still down-shift and brake without interference of my belly.



I thought about changing my seats in my Z06 as well, but recently decided not to do so for a car that is driven at the street, too:
  1. Most aftermarket set-ups that preserve the sliders end up increasing the seat height. The fixed (side) mount seats are a pain at the street, and is also cumbersome when someone else needs to use your car (like service, for instance).
  2. 4 pt. seat belt harnesses let you submarine, so you need to use 5/6 pt. harnesses. When you do, you will be pinned to the seat, which has catastrophic affects besides its benefits:
  3. During an accident, your body will be pinned, while your head will move freely, seriously jeopardizing your spine/stem. You will have to use a helmet with a HANS device at all times for your safety. Clearly, you cannot do this at the street, so you will have to use stock seat belts at the street.
  4. When you do, especially if you chose to go with a seat that has high bolsters by the sides, the seat belt will not cover your lap as good as it does on a stock seat, letting you very easily submarine during an accident.
  5. Going back to using it at the track, now that you are 'pinned' to the seat, you will be yet another 'column' along with the A/B columns of the car that holds the roof in its place. If you happen to flip the car, if your roof collapses, your head will be right there as a 'structural member' to push it back!! If you used a stock seat with stock belts, your body would most likely find a spot to fit in without becoming a structural member. Race cars avoid this issue by the use of mandatory roll-cage; will you have a roll cage in your daily driven car?
  6. Finally, there are stories of people who had their warranty claim rejected just because the service manager (or GM rep) saw racing seats/harness and decided the car is actually used for racing. So you would need to remove all that every time you go to the service, in case someone short-sighted in the service chain judges you on that.


Camaro's LS3 certainly does not have a solution as elegant as the dry sump in Corvette Grand Sports. If I recall correctly, the problem was with long 1+ G left-hand turns where the oil pick-up gets just air. If the upgraded oil pan works fine to remedy this situation and if it fits, it could be a big hit for the non-dry-sump-LS3 Corvette owners, too
First off, Welcome to Camaro5, it's great to see more people that have track experience here on the forum. I for one will be utilizing any and all info about it since I am a complete noob. I have my 1LE ordered and can't wait to get it on the track .

I must say though that information you shared about Seat belts and harnesses, etc. has me a bit unnerved. These are definitely serious issues that are not to be taken lightly and I know that when I do get to that track, I want to feel comfortable that I have the right setup. This car will not be towed to the track and it will serve double duty in sharing responsibilities as my other daily driver.

If I utilize a harness bar, with a 5 pt. setup, are there ways to set up a HANS device to it? I should set it up the same for the passenger side also, especially if I have an instructor in the car, correct?
__________________
2015 CRT 1SS/1LE RS/Recaro's/NPP/Nav/Rear vision pkg./BA speaker upgrade.
ARH 1 7/8 headers, CAI, BMR 1.25 drop springs, JPSS Billet Bushings, Peddars Cradle Bushings, DSS driveshaft ...421 whp...so far.

Bad@ssCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 06:15 PM   #13
X25


 
X25's Avatar
 
Drives: '16 C7 Z51
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 3,051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro View Post
First off, Welcome to Camaro5, it's great to see more people that have track experience here on the forum. I for one will be utilizing any and all info about it since I am a complete noob. I have my 1LE ordered and can't wait to get it on the track .

I must say though that information you shared about Seat belts and harnesses, etc. has me a bit unnerved. These are definitely serious issues that are not to be taken lightly and I know that when I do get to that track, I want to feel comfortable that I have the right setup. This car will not be towed to the track and it will serve double duty in sharing responsibilities as my other daily driver.

If I utilize a harness bar, with a 5 pt. setup, are there ways to set up a HANS device to it? I should set it up the same for the passenger side also, especially if I have an instructor in the car, correct?
Thank you! The idea of having a very capable yet affordable track car is intoxicating for sure, and I might add one next my current car in future GM's power-train architecture is also very stout and well built unlike many similar import 'track cars', so it is a no-brainer.

HANS device is something you buy for your size since you end up wearing it. Therefore, it might not be the best idea to just buy the device for any passenger's use. If you end up buying racing harness, you MUST get it for yourself (even if the vendor says it's not a big deal), and ask any passenger to use one, or just use the stock seat belts if they don't. Many instructors who care about this now have their own wearable HANS device (like Simpson's Hybrid Pro Rage that I own), so they can quickly buckle up to any car that has a racing harness. I should note that many other instructors simply don't care much about it, or they just put a race collar instead of a real HANS device.

FYI, the only HANS device that I know of that does NOT need a racing harness is Simpson R3. It comes with enough tethers/straps to stabilize itself without the need for the racing seat belts. So, if I were an instructor, I'd get one of those, and just keep wearing it regardless of the student car having harness or not.
X25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 07:24 PM   #14
Bad@ssCamaro
Rogers' Rocks :-)
 
Bad@ssCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 1SS/1LE
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Western MA
Posts: 5,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozer View Post
Thank you! The idea of having a very capable yet affordable track car is intoxicating for sure, and I might add one next my current car in future GM's power-train architecture is also very stout and well built unlike many similar import 'track cars', so it is a no-brainer.

HANS device is something you buy for your size since you end up wearing it. Therefore, it might not be the best idea to just buy the device for any passenger's use. If you end up buying racing harness, you MUST get it for yourself (even if the vendor says it's not a big deal), and ask any passenger to use one, or just use the stock seat belts if they don't. Many instructors who care about this now have their own wearable HANS device (like Simpson's Hybrid Pro Rage that I own), so they can quickly buckle up to any car that has a racing harness. I should note that many other instructors simply don't care much about it, or they just put a race collar instead of a real HANS device.

FYI, the only HANS device that I know of that does NOT need a racing harness is Simpson R3. It comes with enough tethers/straps to stabilize itself without the need for the racing seat belts. So, if I were an instructor, I'd get one of those, and just keep wearing it regardless of the student car having harness or not.
Thanks for the info I think a racing harness and a race collar would be a great place to start. As I progress, I will consider those other options as you suggested.
__________________
2015 CRT 1SS/1LE RS/Recaro's/NPP/Nav/Rear vision pkg./BA speaker upgrade.
ARH 1 7/8 headers, CAI, BMR 1.25 drop springs, JPSS Billet Bushings, Peddars Cradle Bushings, DSS driveshaft ...421 whp...so far.

Bad@ssCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.