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Old 06-24-2009, 07:20 PM   #51
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While the Camaro has all the buzz in the automotive world right now, I don't see it winning this particular award. There are way too many quality issues with this car for it to be put up on a pedestal.

I know I will take heat for saying that, but unlike a lot of people who are willing to chalk the issues up to the Camaro being "first year model" car and letting it go because they are GM diehards. I have owned no less than 4 "first model year" cars over the past 10 years, of various make, and none of them exhibited as many or the types of issues that already plague the Gen5 Camaro. In fact, with 3 of those cars, I had NO issues in terms of quality.

Are any of the issues thus far major? No, and they are certainly not making me rethink my decision to buy a Gen5, but I doubt you will get the same level of oversight from a neutral party.

(Please proceed to bash the "Ford" guy if you must.)

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Old 06-24-2009, 07:27 PM   #52
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As I said earlier (clearly no one bothers to read anything I actually say before screaming "OMFGWTFBBQ!?!? Genesis boooo!!!!!") while I believe the Camaro is the superior car in many respects, it is my understanding that this award is as much about significance as it is superiority. A legitimate performance car from Korea is significant because it is a first. Never happened before. Tons of legitimate performance cars have come from America. That said, I am getting my Camaro (convertible) for very specific reasons. It will be a weekend/summer/day-trip cruiser, and as such comfort, power, decent performance, but most of all jaw-dropping, knee-weakening good distinct looks are of prime importance, and the Camaro delivers in those areas like no other car. Now if it were my daily driver, where efficiency, nimbleness, handling, easy of maneuverability and parking, visibility and practicality were more important than looks, the Hyundai would definitely be considered. Different tools for different jobs. That is why I will get a Camaro but think the Genesis should win the award.

By the way, the North American Car of the Year award isn't and has never been about where a car is made. It is simply for cars sold in North America voted on by judges who are from North America.
This is the reason I think the Fusion Hybrid will win the award. The most patented car ever, with class leading MPG city and highway. Not too bad to go up against the Camry Hybrid and kick it's ass.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:50 PM   #53
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In all honesty, I think the Genesis Coupe should get it. It represents such a giant leap for Hyundai, and a very good showing for their first performance car. Even if it isn't necessarily the best car, it is no doubt significant.
While I agree with what you say about the Genesis in regards to Hyundai...when there's a manufacturer-specific "best" award...then it can win. The car, when compared to others on the list, doesn't have what it takes. If it wins, I'll be very disappointed.


I think the Taurus + Hybrid stand a good chance...quite the impressive vehicle.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:19 PM   #54
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My vote is the new Fusion Hybrid, or Taurus SHO. For the SHO, it depends if it has any QA issues
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:41 PM   #55
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You would really hope that North American Car of the Year would be from North America.

I'd go for the Camaro but then I am bias.

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Old 06-24-2009, 09:45 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by stovt001 View Post
...A legitimate performance car from Korea is significant because it is a first. Never happened before. Tons of legitimate performance cars have come from America... Now if it were my daily driver, where efficiency, nimbleness, handling, easy of maneuverability and parking, visibility and practicality were more important than looks, the Hyundai would definitely be considered.
Like I said, I agree to disagree. I would hope that the Genesis would win the International Car of The Year Award.

As you stated - this is the first performance car coming from Hyundai in Korea, therefore it has a great deal of significance to the auto industry. (I really do value your opinion. )

I would like to see North American awards stay with domestic makers while they remain going concerns. International Awards for foreign automakers. That is just my humble opinion.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:51 PM   #57
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Anything American is fine... CTS, Lacrosse, Camaro are the top for me (not in order). If American doesn't win, I hope the Panamera does. I don't like the car at all, but I don't mind Porsche.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:56 PM   #58
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While the Camaro has all the buzz in the automotive world right now, I don't see it winning this particular award. There are way too many quality issues with this car for it to be put up on a pedestal.

I know I will take heat for saying that, but unlike a lot of people who are willing to chalk the issues up to the Camaro being "first year model" car and letting it go because they are GM diehards. I have owned no less than 4 "first model year" cars over the past 10 years, of various make, and none of them exhibited as many or the types of issues that already plague the Gen5 Camaro. In fact, with 3 of those cars, I had NO issues in terms of quality.

Are any of the issues thus far major? No, and they are certainly not making me rethink my decision to buy a Gen5, but I doubt you will get the same level of oversight from a neutral party.

(Please proceed to bash the "Ford" guy if you must.)
I think that being on the board has made us realize the problems way too much. I agree with your comment for the most part, but the vast majority of people have had no problems with their camaros. I don't hate ford, I just don't like their current lineup. I like the mustang and the edge. The rest of their cars are too neutral and plain, or they're just ugly. Not to try to put down a brand because of that, they make some terrific quality cars, I personally find most of them ugly. That's just my preference, and I hope it doesn't bother you... Plenty of people find the camaro ugly, too.
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Old 06-24-2009, 10:31 PM   #59
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I think that being on the board has made us realize the problems way too much. I agree with your comment for the most part, but the vast majority of people have had no problems with their camaros. I don't hate ford, I just don't like their current lineup. I like the mustang and the edge. The rest of their cars are too neutral and plain, or they're just ugly. Not to try to put down a brand because of that, they make some terrific quality cars, I personally find most of them ugly. That's just my preference, and I hope it doesn't bother you... Plenty of people find the camaro ugly, too.
Why would that bother me? I have two Mopars (Aspen and Crossfire Convertible) in the garage right now along with my GT500 and a '65 Mustang Fastback. In the past, these same spaces have been filled by several GM products. I am not a "Ford" guy any more than I am a "GM" guy or a "Chrysler" guy. As long as it is American, I'll be open to buying it.

I do agree the problems do tend to be magnified on the Camaro forums, but I've also heard people questioning the quality aspect of the car at work, and the folks I am talking about to are not car people at all.
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Old 06-24-2009, 10:33 PM   #60
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The brand should not be looked at when making this award. Just a car...

Camaro is hands down the best. Look at just the crashes so far how safe they have been. And no other car is causing crashes just from parking it on side of the road.

Any other car on the list is boring in comparison.
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:35 PM   #61
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Volkswagen's Golf/Golf TDI is going to blindside the Camaro and Genesis....
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:17 AM   #62
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The GTI is almost exactly like the Mustang - a very nice touch up to an already very nice design, but held back by using old powertrains. I'm very upset VW decided to not use the new 2.0T found in the A4 and European GTI in the American spec version.

You know, the anti-foreign sentiment here is really starting to bother me. It bothers me just as much as the anti-domestic sentiment found elsewhere. This whole country-of-origin bias is just depressing. By pre-judging a car based on the country it comes from, you're really closing your eyes to some great vehicles. Every major auto-producing country that sells in the NA market has something of real value. Sure, from an economic standpoint there is justification for being concerned about NA manufacturing capacity, but from an enthusiast standpoint, it makes no sense to snub a perfectly good car just because of some nationalistic bias. Segregating an award into "international" and "North American" is nothing short of bigoted and narrow-minded. Now I'm a proud American, don't care about political correctness, but I can sure respect foreign manufacturers. Seems that makes me the minority here.

/soapbox.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:26 AM   #63
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Porsche Panamera
Are you kidding me? The only reason that car might sell is because of the Porsche name, otherwise that car is the most hideous thing I've ever seen.
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Old 06-25-2009, 01:27 AM   #64
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You know, the anti-foreign sentiment here is really starting to bother me. It bothers me just as much as the anti-domestic sentiment found elsewhere. This whole country-of-origin bias is just depressing. By pre-judging a car based on the country it comes from, you're really closing your eyes to some great vehicles.
/soapbox.
It's a Camaro forum. I don't think it's supposed to be a fanbase for cars like that. As great a forum as it is.

I think your generalizing way to much into maybe someones opinion expressed.

The forum is not going to evolve into a foreign car fan club if that's what your thinking.
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:29 AM   #65
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[QUOTE=stovt001;616771]Sedan won last year. And unlike say the BMW 3 series sedan and coupe, the Genesis sedan and coupe have very little in common. The sedan is pure luxury, little performance; the coupe is the opposite.QUOTE]

Sorry, I knew the coupe was much different from the sedan, but I was just going by what the admin posted on the Homepage stating the coupe won last year. That's why I was having a problem with it being a nominee again this year.
I get a GM employee discount on my Camaro would be one good reason I'm biased, not to mention my second car was an Iroc Z. Hyundai got the award last year even though it was the sedan. Different car yes, but this isn't the Oscar awards where you should be able to take home 8 or more awards. Gotta give GM major kudos for finally bringing back the new Camaro as a head turner and for offering a 400HP car for mid thirties. Whether it's sexy, but heavy, it is still an American Icon just like the vette with has had the car of the year.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:49 AM   #66
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Uhh...I think the reason it's known as "North American Car of the Year" is because it's awarded at the NORTH AMERICAN International Auto Show...

As long as a GM wins, I'm happy. Ford too.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:22 AM   #67
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I just have to chime in.... I hope the Camaro wins because I own one...

If it will get those AWFUL Prius commercials off the air, you know the ones, with the Wizard of OZ looking vegetation and that AWFUL music, then please let the Prius win...
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:09 PM   #68
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The genesis coupe is going to take it.
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:33 PM   #69
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Why would that bother me? I have two Mopars (Aspen and Crossfire Convertible) in the garage right now along with my GT500 and a '65 Mustang Fastback. In the past, these same spaces have been filled by several GM products. I am not a "Ford" guy any more than I am a "GM" guy or a "Chrysler" guy. As long as it is American, I'll be open to buying it.

I do agree the problems do tend to be magnified on the Camaro forums, but I've also heard people questioning the quality aspect of the car at work, and the folks I am talking about to are not car people at all.
I just didn't want to get the "guy that attacks the guy with the mustang" tag. I like all American cars because they're American more than the competitors, also.
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:40 PM   #70
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The Camaro is the most breathtaking design by far. Hell, I wasn't even going to buy another car....and then I say the concept Camaro!
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:40 PM   #71
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Do you even know what the Genesis coupe is? Or the Tiburon? Other than both are made by Hyundai and are coupes? While the Tiburon is FWD, the Genesis is RWD and on a completely different platform. That is exactly like saying the Camaro is just a spit shined and renamed Monte Carlo coupe. Think about it. And "wanna-be performance car"? Well, you might be interested to know the V6 Genesis Coupe outperforms the V6 Camaro, so that must make the V6 Camaro a "wanna be performance car" too. Finally, Hyundai has not "tried and failed" for years to get a performance car right. The Genesis coupe was their first real attempt, and they succeeded delightfully.
Dude I agree, you have all your facts right. However I just can’t get past the first Hyundai Excel that used to burn through the piston rings at just over 50k miles and filled my neighborhood with white smoke. There’s not much originality with this brand either, some of their vehicle look like a knockoff of higher end cars. Have you seen the Geneses sedan? Although appealing to the eye, It looks like a Mercedes E class, a BMW 7 series and a Lexus did a three way. Not impressed!
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:18 PM   #72
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Some D*%m import will win. It seems the imports have been taking most of the awards the last few years. I think the judges mentally mark down any car from an American manufacturer. I was watching Motorweek the other day and they had their top car in all the classes and I think only 2 American cars were selected. The CTS-V and another I don't remember.
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:36 PM   #73
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Some D*%m import will win. It seems the imports have been taking most of the awards the last few years. I think the judges mentally mark down any car from an American manufacturer. I was watching Motorweek the other day and they had their top car in all the classes and I think only 2 American cars were selected. The CTS-V and another I don't remember.
Yeah, I don't know if the Japs pay them off, or if they just listen to the media too much. Americans are making some of the best cars on the planet, and the people who have voices that consumers listen to choose to send to Japan for cars ... Crazy.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:06 PM   #74
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Yeah, I don't know if the Japs pay them off, or if they just listen to the media too much. Americans are making some of the best cars on the planet, and the people who have voices that consumers listen to choose to send to Japan for cars ... Crazy.
...."German Engineering"......VW Golf/TDI will take it.....
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:10 PM   #75
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...."German Engineering"......VW Golf/TDI will take it.....
Yeah, Europeans actually earn their reputation -- mostly the Germans. I like the cc, passat, and jetta more than the Golf, though... Guess people are starting to get serious about this global warming thing... I'm still waiting for Ashton to come out and say that he punk'd everyone using Al Gore.
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