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Old 05-18-2010, 11:29 AM   #43
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Good Lord.

Thanks everybody.

I thought i spent a lot of time on here.

A 4 year old thread.........

WTF
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:32 AM   #44
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I see the point your trying to make there... but we're not talking about a $3 big mac here. and there is no design work to remove fries from the package or extra tooling involved.

to re-engineer and stock all the parts to have something like a solid rear axle option.... your talking tens of millions of dollars alone. then factor in the extra space in a shop it takes to store these parts, how much longer it will take to build each car if they had so many options "the way you like it". now your talking HUNDREDS of millions. which would be spread out over the range to re-coup those costs making everyones cars more expensive. It's a MUCH better business decision to build a car that makes MOST people happy, and let the ones who aren't happy spend their own money to make it what they want. You can't have a custom car from an assembly line, that company would be out of business in a heartbeat.


gotta love zombie threads!

I don't disagree with that assessment but my point wasn't toward the live rear axle but toward the "options" within what they are already offering on Camaro's, i.e. I want an LS with a 6.2 engine. (In other words a 1SS with "delete options". That requires nothing more than some special oversight on the assembly line, sort of like the old COPO Camaro's. If that costs a little extra on an individual basis and customers are willing to pay for it, why would GM say "Sorry, we can't make everyone happy."

Maybe I want a leather steering wheel without the C&C package etc. Why can't they do that for a price? They can. They just don't want to.


And yes, +1 for zombie threads.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:14 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Berean View Post
I don't disagree with that assessment but my point wasn't toward the live rear axle but toward the "options" within what they are already offering on Camaro's, i.e. I want an LS with a 6.2 engine. (In other words a 1SS with "delete options". That requires nothing more than some special oversight on the assembly line, sort of like the old COPO Camaro's. If that costs a little extra on an individual basis and customers are willing to pay for it, why would GM say "Sorry, we can't make everyone happy."

Maybe I want a leather steering wheel without the C&C package etc. Why can't they do that for a price? They can. They just don't want to.


And yes, +1 for zombie threads.
I am not disagreeing with the idea... just not sure you realize the additional effort associated with that. GM had to restructure to simplify their business... to streamline and make it more efficient. Oldsmobile, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer... too much overhead and costs. The more efficient you make any process the more money you can put in your pocket for profit and future endeavors... add to that process and you can impact both.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:17 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Berean View Post
I don't disagree with that assessment but my point wasn't toward the live rear axle but toward the "options" within what they are already offering on Camaro's, i.e. I want an LS with a 6.2 engine. (In other words a 1SS with "delete options". That requires nothing more than some special oversight on the assembly line, sort of like the old COPO Camaro's. If that costs a little extra on an individual basis and customers are willing to pay for it, why would GM say "Sorry, we can't make everyone happy."

Maybe I want a leather steering wheel without the C&C package etc. Why can't they do that for a price? They can. They just don't want to.


And yes, +1 for zombie threads.
Dude; read my post above. They CAN'T do things like "they used to" because the times have changed as to what and how things are required to be done BY LAW. They're struggling back from a bankruptcy.

It's now up to 3rd parties to do the kind of customization you want because the manufacturers simply can't afford all the costs of complying with the regulation certifications requirements for every variation you think you want. Putting a different motor in it requires crash and safety testing and emissions certifications for that motor in that car and all that is bloody expensive!! THEY WENT BANKRUPT!!! They HAVE to be more conservative now; that's just the way it is. Be thankful (I know I sure am) that they were able to even build the Camaro we have at all!

You want a different steering wheel? Customize it yourself; to a lot of people that's half the fun of owning cars like this. Being able to customize it so it's "your car" is a great American tradition and in that regard, at least doing that is still a lot like "the old days". The manufacturers can't do things like they used to not because they don't want to but because the laws and requlations don't allow it anymore.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #47
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Well sure you can make everyone happy. Let them order what they want. GM can get away with selling option "packages" because buying a car is a singular event that doesn't happen that often and customers are willing to buy stuff they don't really want or do without, which is exactly why GM operates that way.

If most business used this model, they'd quickly go out of business with the attitude "we can't make everyone happy".

McDonalds "Yes sir, our Big Mac option package comes with pickles, mustard and fries."

Customer "I don't want fries"

McDonalds "No problem sir. We have a plain Big Mac basic option"

Customer "I don't want a plain Big Mac. I want pickles and ketchup"

McDonald "No problem sir. We have our fully loaded 2LT Mac. It has everything you want but it does include fries."

Customer "I just want a Big Mac with pickles and ketchup."

McDonalds "I'm sorry sir, what you're asking for is something only 2% of our customers would buy and it would be too expensive for us to make a Big Mac that way"

Customer "Never mind"

McDonalds "I'm sorry sir but you can't expect us to make every customer happy."

Dude...this is absolutely not an apples to apples comparison. Comparing the assembly of a hamburger to what goes on in the automotive industry? C'mon.....FAIL.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:43 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Doo View Post
Good Lord.

Thanks everybody.

I thought i spent a lot of time on here.

A 4 year old thread.........

WTF
Holly crap! You got me there!!! It looks like the OP's two posts really paid off...
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:50 PM   #49
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Dude...this is absolutely not an apples to apples comparison. Comparing the assembly of a hamburger to what goes on in the automotive industry? C'mon.....FAIL.

Read it a couple more times, you might get my point.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:54 PM   #50
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When this thread "ended" for the first time, I was a junior @ UM. Probably working on my final project. My gawd, it's been 3 1/2 years, lol
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:00 PM   #51
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Putting a different motor in it requires crash and safety testing and emissions certifications for that motor in that car and all that is bloody expensive!!

The 6.2 isn't a "different" motor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
You want a different steering wheel? Customize it yourself; to a lot of people that's half the fun of owning cars like this. Being able to customize it so it's "your car" is a great American tradition and in that regard, at least doing that is still a lot like "the old days". The manufacturers can't do things like they used to not because they don't want to but because the laws and requlations don't allow it anymore.

There's no law or regulation that says GM can't offer a leather steering wheel without offering bluetooth or cargo nets. This conversation is becoming painful.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:01 PM   #52
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When this thread "ended" for the first time, I was a junior @ UM. Probably working on my final project. My gawd, it's been 3 1/2 years, lol
Everyone just take a pill
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:02 PM   #53
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The OP has a point here. I'd love to see GM go back to the old days when you could actually order what you want.

I would have ordered an LS with a 6.2 if that were an option.
Then you would have a 1SS.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:02 PM   #54
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The 6.2 isn't a "different" motor.





There's no law or regulation that says GM can't offer a leather steering wheel without offering bluetooth or cargo nets. This conversation is becoming painful.
Then stop participating. Is it really worth the time. The OP hasn't even come back to the site to post again from what it looks like...
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by 302 Wild Mouse View Post
If you build us another Camaro, I will not buy the car if you dont offer a solid rear axle .

......We all buy these cars to do a little "DragRacing" and at the track the Goat wont hook-up.......We dont buy cars in AMERICA with big horsepower to ride to church! On SUNDAYS were on our way to the TRACK!

Get it?
Camaro is intended to fulfill a segment of style/luxury/comfort/plus horsepower. the V6 and V8 models likely will be used as daily drivers, so they need to have comfort for daily use.

Most people buy expensive cars like a Camaro as a status symbol. Not to race. (though in the past, things were different, when almost all cars had solid axles.)

Someone likely will design a subframe/solid axle for the Camaro eventually though for people who like racing.

Society has also changed in that drag racing, may appeal to a much smaller demographic in 2010, then in the past.

People crave sophisticated vehicles in 2010. they use their car as an office a lot also.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:11 PM   #56
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Camaro is intended to fulfill a segment of luxury/comfort/plus horsepower.

Most people buy expensive cars as a status symbol. Not to race.

Someone likely will design a subframe/solid axle for the Camaro eventually though for people who like racing.
I believe it's either Moser or Strange... I think Killer74Z28's car was the test car for the measurements. There's a thread in here.

If there's any doubt about strength, there are also a 9-inch and I think a 12-bolt center section that are in the works For me, replacing the ride compliant subframe bushings and rear diff' bushings with some poly/solid ones will be the way I'm looking to go. It's looking like if you control the 'hop, you have a better chance at keeping the shafts and pumpkin together.

JMVHO.
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