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Old 05-18-2010, 02:01 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
When this thread "ended" for the first time, I was a junior @ UM. Probably working on my final project. My gawd, it's been 3 1/2 years, lol
Everyone just take a pill
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:02 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Berean View Post
The OP has a point here. I'd love to see GM go back to the old days when you could actually order what you want.

I would have ordered an LS with a 6.2 if that were an option.
Then you would have a 1SS.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:02 PM   #54
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The 6.2 isn't a "different" motor.





There's no law or regulation that says GM can't offer a leather steering wheel without offering bluetooth or cargo nets. This conversation is becoming painful.
Then stop participating. Is it really worth the time. The OP hasn't even come back to the site to post again from what it looks like...
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by 302 Wild Mouse View Post
If you build us another Camaro, I will not buy the car if you dont offer a solid rear axle .

......We all buy these cars to do a little "DragRacing" and at the track the Goat wont hook-up.......We dont buy cars in AMERICA with big horsepower to ride to church! On SUNDAYS were on our way to the TRACK!

Get it?
Camaro is intended to fulfill a segment of style/luxury/comfort/plus horsepower. the V6 and V8 models likely will be used as daily drivers, so they need to have comfort for daily use.

Most people buy expensive cars like a Camaro as a status symbol. Not to race. (though in the past, things were different, when almost all cars had solid axles.)

Someone likely will design a subframe/solid axle for the Camaro eventually though for people who like racing.

Society has also changed in that drag racing, may appeal to a much smaller demographic in 2010, then in the past.

People crave sophisticated vehicles in 2010. they use their car as an office a lot also.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:11 PM   #56
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Camaro is intended to fulfill a segment of luxury/comfort/plus horsepower.

Most people buy expensive cars as a status symbol. Not to race.

Someone likely will design a subframe/solid axle for the Camaro eventually though for people who like racing.
I believe it's either Moser or Strange... I think Killer74Z28's car was the test car for the measurements. There's a thread in here.

If there's any doubt about strength, there are also a 9-inch and I think a 12-bolt center section that are in the works For me, replacing the ride compliant subframe bushings and rear diff' bushings with some poly/solid ones will be the way I'm looking to go. It's looking like if you control the 'hop, you have a better chance at keeping the shafts and pumpkin together.

JMVHO.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:13 PM   #57
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Then you would have a 1SS.
Right, as I pointed out earlier, a 1SS with the ability to delete things I don't want, i.e. spoiler, radio, etc. Not that I would necessarily delete those particular things, the point of the conversation is that GM should give customers the ability to do so without the attitude "we can't make every customer happy", so take our 1SS (or 2SS or whatever) as is and shut up.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:18 PM   #58
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I would have to agreed with the op. solid axle= much stronger ,but I'm not a good one to talk to about this subject seeing how I'm one of the lucky ones that broke mine.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:20 PM   #59
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Right, as I pointed out earlier, a 1SS with the ability to delete things I don't want, i.e. spoiler, radio, etc. Not that I would necessarily delete those particular things, the point of the conversation is that GM should give customers the ability to do so without the attitude "we can't make every customer happy", so take our 1SS (or 2SS or whatever) as is and shut up.
It would be cool if we could do it this way, though, admittedly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
I would have to agreed with the op. solid axle= much stronger ,but I'm not a good one to talk to about this subject seeing how I'm one of the lucky ones that broke mine.
:(
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:42 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berean View Post
The 6.2 isn't a "different" motor.





There's no law or regulation that says GM can't offer a leather steering wheel without offering bluetooth or cargo nets. This conversation is becoming painful.
Yes it is becoming painful. No the 6.2 isn't a different motor but it IS a different motor for the LS. Requires the certification processes.

The only "law" GM was struggling with in those accessory areas was a looming BANKRUPTCY. Not only were they trying to get the Camaro produced at all, but they weren't even sure if they'd have jobs at the end of the month. Offering a leather steering wheel wasn't necessary at that time; 3rd parties can supply that.

It would BE NICE if they could offer things like that; it would BE NICE if they weren't about to go bankrupt when they released the Camaro.

And here's something REALLY nice... I'm going to stop reading and posting in this thread because I don't need the pain!
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:05 PM   #61
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Being able to customize it so it's "your car" is a great American tradition
I don't know if it's necesarrily an "American" tradition.... haha

but ya, everything in the manufacturing world is about eliminating Non-Value Added work, and extra overhead. putting a different option on a car like a leather steering wheel on something that otherwise wouldn't have it isn't really that easy. They have to stock extra ones, make a trip to a different parts bin, buy more leather etc etc. they literally analyze the assembly floor to the point where they know how many steps an assembler takes in a day (and they're always trying to minimize it)

It's just a different world than it was. Mass produced products will always try to hit the middle of the range so that it's easy to add/subtract things later if you want, but so that they don't have to do it on an assembly line. Ideally, an assembly line wants to make identical cars over and over. Strictly speaking any variations eat efficienies and time.

Do I wish I could choose every single component that goes on to my car from the factory? absolutely! will it ever happen? absolutely not

but to an extent, I absolutely can have whatever I want with todays aftermarket. I wasn't around in the days of the first camaro's (i'm only 25) but I doubt the aftermarket was as accesible and wide spread as it is today. That is something auto manufacturers actually take into account believe it or not.

I don't know why everyone is getting so upset. I'm actually finding this conversation sort of interesting.
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:06 PM   #62
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:09 PM   #63
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Yes it is becoming painful. No the 6.2 isn't a different motor but it IS a different motor for the LS. Requires the certification processes.
Doc has a point here. Testing still has to be done in every model that gets a change. So because the LS was technically not designed for the v8, they'd have to test it if they put one in.
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:18 PM   #64
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Doc has a point here. Testing still has to be done in every model that gets a change. So because the LS was technically not designed for the v8, they'd have to test it if they put one in.
Read the thread. I clarified (twice) that an LS with a 6.2 is basically a 1SS with option deletes. No certification required.

The main point I've been making all along is that GM should have more flexibility in how they allow customers to order cars instead of the attitude of "we can't make every customer happy"

Sheesh.
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:46 PM   #65
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Read the thread. I clarified (twice) that an LS with a 6.2 is basically a 1SS with option deletes. No certification required.

The main point I've been making all along is that GM should have more flexibility in how they allow customers to order cars instead of the attitude of "we can't make every customer happy"

Sheesh.

Yes, you keep saying that. But it ISN"T the same. it may be close, but it's NOT the same. As far as the law and certification processes are concerned.

and on the assembly line.

different interior components, brakes, wheels... all those "option deletes" so neatly encompassed into one phrase result in a custom car. Which an assembly plant can not afford to put out in todays market.

It's not so much an "attitude" that they can't please everyone, as it is a business necessity.

Yes they used to do that stuff... and look where it got them. Right smack dab in the middle of bailouts. and don't kid yourself, that was not a result of a couple years of bad production. It was a cumulative effect of decades of mismanagement.
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Old 05-18-2010, 04:09 PM   #66
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For every new option that's offered, the cost of producing EVERY Camaro goes up - whether they have the new option or not. It's adding more steps and more complexity to the assembly process. If GM had offered a totally stripped-down 1SS, it would have made my 2LT more expensive, so I'm glad they didn't.
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:26 PM   #67
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Sorry, I have to disagree with the OP on this one.

I do more road driving than drag racing in this car, and I love the independent rear suspension. Don't put in a log and make this car suck at handling like the Mustang.
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:39 PM   #68
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You want a solid axel on a modern car

Why not Put some Leaf Springs on it to.
not to mention the Drum brakes and Caburetor. Hey you could just stop it with your feet as well.

Guess these days thing are to modern for people. We should build a time machine and go back 40 yrs ago when all the roads were straight and a corner was an endagered species
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