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Old 05-29-2013, 02:32 PM   #171
Norm Peterson
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Thanks, bandit, had it backwards.


Probably more information than necessary, but there might be something in here that somebody finds useful (Brake & Front End is a monthly independent automotive repair industry magazine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake & Front End site
ABS + ESC: Diagnosis of Accelerometers and Yaw Sensors

Accelerometers measure gravitational pull in gravitational force or G-force. Some cars will have one or two sensors depending on sophistication of the system. Some systems group the accelerometers in a sensor cluster. The typical sensor may cost $400 to $800.


Lateral/Transverse
These sensors are typically found under the center console near the vehicle’s center of gravity.

Your scan tool will read the sensor output in G-force or G. A typical road vehicle will be able to corner around one G. Single-seat race cars can corner at 4- to 5-Gs. Most production car accelerometers have a limit of 4-Gs.


Longitudinal
These sensors measure braking and acceleration. This can be used to determine how hard the driver is accelerating or braking. Longitudinal sensors can also be used to calculate the angle of the vehicle for hill holding.

It is very difficult and even dangerous to drive the vehicle and look at the readings from an accelerometer. You will see only minor movement in the sensor.

The best way to measure the performance of an accelerometer is to rotate it 90 degrees. When a lateral accelerometer is rotated 90º, it should read 1-G. When a longitudinal sensor is rotated on its end, it will read 1-G. This is because gravity is equal to 1-G.

Most accelerometers are wired with three wires. These include a 5-volt power, ground and signal wires. The signal wire will vary the voltage from 0-5-volts depending on G-force.

Norm
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:49 PM   #172
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I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:05 PM   #173
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I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
Im not being an ass,but take a look at post #73.This thing DOES NOT WORK FLAWLESSLY!!!!!! and im pretty sure i have been driving a manual a lot longer the you.Again this thing has no business being on a "High Performance sports car"!
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:14 PM   #174
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I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
You've had the car less than a week and you make this statement that those of us who are experiencing issues with HSA and have been driving standards for 20+ years don't know how to drive a manual????? Really?!?!?

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Old 05-29-2013, 09:18 PM   #175
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Quote:
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I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
Pretty sure the consensus is pretty clear. HSA works okay IF you DON'T know how to drive a manual well. Do you dd your 1le? Do you dd your 1le on any sort of hills in congested southern Cali? If the answer is yes to both, then we must meet and you can show me how to drive without it being a pia.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:54 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
I think the best I can give you there is that your individual car works "flawlessly" for your own personal hand and foot timing.

I'm betting that you aren't trying to drive off as per sequence 3 posted earlier (more or less, clutch out to or just past the friction point before getting the throttle involved, and yes this is a very reasonable way to "drive stick"). No flame intended, I'm just old enough to be somewhere between blunt and downright crotchety about this topic.


That said . . . I have heard rumors that HSA intrusiveness was being dialed back for 2014, so maybe that snuck in as a running production change. That's as far as I'll go to concede that it might be getting better. And no, it still wouldn't be good enough for me. "OFF" means not even a little bit "ON".


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Old 05-29-2013, 10:01 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by cornerspeed92 View Post
Im not being an ass,but take a look at post #73.This thing DOES NOT WORK FLAWLESSLY!!!!!! and im pretty sure i have been driving a manual a lot longer the you.Again this thing has no business being on a "High Performance sports car"!
What does length of driving time with a manual have anything to do with knowledge? Anyone with 10+ years shouldn't be questioned.
This is a camaro, I wouldn't call it a HIGH performance Sports cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgg60 View Post
You've had the car less than a week and you make this statement that those of us who are experiencing issues with HSA and have been driving standards for 20+ years don't know how to drive a manual????? Really?!?!?

Again it works absolutely flawless on mine. Not a single complaint, no tire spin, brakes release the exact moment it needs too. Perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allgrey View Post
Pretty sure the consensus is pretty clear. HSA works okay IF you DON'T know how to drive a manual well. Do you dd your 1le? Do you dd your 1le on any sort of hills in congested southern Cali? If the answer is yes to both, then we must meet and you can show me how to drive without it being a pia.
I have put 2,000 miles on mine since last friday. I daily it so far and i live in an area with severe hills, hell it activates in my own driveway when I let my girlfriend out before i pull into the garage.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:14 PM   #178
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I think the best I can give you there is that your individual car works "flawlessly" for your own personal hand and foot timing.

I'm betting that you aren't trying to drive off as per sequence 3 posted earlier (more or less, clutch out to or just past the friction point before getting the throttle involved, and yes this is a very reasonable way to "drive stick"). No flame intended, I'm just old enough to be somewhere between blunt and downright crotchety about this topic.

Norm
After reading your last couple posts, i could see how some people that are either a) still driving the same way they drove 20 years ago or b) simply being to ***** footed to drive the car properly.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:35 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
What does length of driving time with a manual have anything to do with knowledge? Anyone with 10+ years shouldn't be questioned.
This is a camaro, I wouldn't call it a HIGH performance Sports cars.



Again it works absolutely flawless on mine. Not a single complaint, no tire spin, brakes release the exact moment it needs too. Perfect.



I have put 2,000 miles on mine since last friday. I daily it so far and i live in an area with severe hills, hell it activates in my own driveway when I let my girlfriend out before i pull into the garage.
I disagree,there is a little emblem in the engine compartment that says"GM HIGH PERFORMANCE"that wouldn't be there on a lesser model.The ZL1,1LE.Z28,are hot rods!!!!!!!!there is no dispute on this issue.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:47 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
After reading your last couple posts, i could see how some people that are either a) still driving the same way they drove 20 years ago or b) simply being to ***** footed to drive the car properly.
What's this "new" style of driving a manual you are referring to? Burning up the clutch in 10,000 miles with HSA engaged?

I prefer to keep my 20 year old driving style, than to have some sissy car nanny try to drive it for me.

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Old 05-29-2013, 11:55 PM   #181
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I found out today this stupid crap holds the trailer brakes on my 2012 silverado 3500. Holds the truck and trailer brakes for 3 seconds no matter what the hell I do.
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:07 AM   #182
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What's this "new" style of driving a manual you are referring to? Burning up the clutch in 10,000 miles with HSA engaged?

I prefer to keep my 20 year old driving style, than to have some sissy car nanny try to drive it for me.

Michael
Why would the clutch burn out? I have never had to ride my clutch to get going.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:12 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I think the best I can give you there is that your individual car works "flawlessly" for your own personal hand and foot timing.

I'm betting that you aren't trying to drive off as per sequence 3 posted earlier (more or less, clutch out to or just past the friction point before getting the throttle involved, and yes this is a very reasonable way to "drive stick"). No flame intended, I'm just old enough to be somewhere between blunt and downright crotchety about

That said . . . I have heard rumors that HSA intrusiveness was being dialed back for 2014, so maybe that snuck in as a running production change. That's as far as I'll go to concede that it might be getting better. And no, it still wouldn't be good enough for me. "OFF" means not even a little bit "ON".


Norm
I wonder if GM has made a change to the HSA system. This owner is the second recent delivery (dropspeed was the first) that has not seemed to have near the trouble that others have had. Maybe this is part of the reason for the big quality hold some of us are / have been waiting through. If so, maybe there is a retro for the older cars.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:30 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
After reading your last couple posts, i could see how some people that are either a) still driving the same way they drove 20 years ago or b) simply being to ***** footed to drive the car properly.
Item a) works just fine when you're left to drive by your own skills that you allow yourself to develop. Worked on anything from 100 HP inline-6 shoebox Chevvies to far more powerful V8's and axle gearing that gets you to 55 mph in 1st gear at under 5500 rpm and everything on up through anything built today. Like I've said before, it's easier on the clutch wear surfaces when you engage them at low revs and low power than when you're forced to make them slip more with more power being transmitted through them (exactly what having to overpower the HSA brakes forces you to do). Except when racing, more clutch slip than necessary = having a sloppy clutch skill level.

By the way you phrased item b) it sounds like you think more of a drag-race start is appropriate all the time and everywhere. It isn't. Wait until the snow flies again, or just the first rainstorm after a dry spell, and feel free to get back to this thread with your complaints of excessive TC and ST intervention. Some of us will then feel free to comment that "***** footed" driving is something that even you should learn (be permitted to learn, as it were).


For me, 20 years ago only covers the recent driving history (my younger kid has 20 years of driving experience herself, nearly all of it MT). Time was when you had to demonstrate the ability to start up on a hill without rolling back, as a means of demonstrating that you understood and had learned a semblance of car control.

I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly that back then, failure at the hill start part of the driving test either flunked you completely or maybe you got a license that limited you to driving automatics only. Having passed mine for unrestricted tranny type the first time - we actually tested for the DMV examiner straight out of H.S. Driver's Ed in manual transmission Ford Falcons, the alternatives never mattered to me. So I hope you'll excuse my uncertainty, it's been 50 years.

When I read the 'howstuffworks' article on HSA, I found it to be presented in a scary light all out of proportion to what the situation merits. You'd begin to wonder how people ever managed without it. Pure scare-mongering at its best, and the hidden scary part of that is how many people buy into it without doing any thinking of their own. That article was about HSA in general, not the stall-prone system we're discussing here, so it didn't even think to look for any downsides.


Norm

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-30-2013 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:25 AM   #185
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I think it was bandit4008 that mentioned earlier that his dealer has been testing HSA on the cars that rotated through, and that the HSA behavior was not consistent from car to car.

So it may not be that a few individuals found a special way of driving makes it less invasive. It could just be that they lucked out and got a car where HSA is less invasive than on others.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:03 AM   #186
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Or it learns driver behavior and attempts to compensate.
Anyone try a fuse pull yet?
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:37 PM   #187
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Or it learns driver behavior and attempts to compensate.
Anyone try a fuse pull yet?
No offense Southern Comfort, but your statement made me laugh. It is as if any problem solving / performance improvement is just a fuse pull away! If I get my black 1LE, and don't like the color after a while, you know what I am gonna do.....wait for it.......I'm gonna try a fuse pull!!!!!!!
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