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Old 05-30-2013, 02:16 PM   #188
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A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Conversely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.

Last edited by natmad; 05-30-2013 at 05:45 PM. Reason: sppelling...
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:19 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natmad View Post
A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Converely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.
.......yeah what he said!
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:08 PM   #190
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On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily.
How embarassing would it be to get beat by a car that's 2 seconds slower because the Hill Nanny?

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Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
No offense Southern Comfort, but your statement made me laugh. It is as if any problem solving / performance improvement is just a fuse pull away! If I get my black 1LE, and don't like the color after a while, you know what I am gonna do.....wait for it.......I'm gonna try a fuse pull!!!!!!!
I'm actually contemplating the fuse pull, except it will disable more than just HSA. Pulling fuse #40 and #43 will disable HSA, but you also lose ABS and Traction Control, and you get some lights on the dash.

But heck my first Camaro didn't have any of that stuff.......
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:17 PM   #191
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My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:26 PM   #192
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My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.
I can only wish mine worked that way.......
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:49 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natmad View Post
A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Converely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.
Agree 100%.

BTW it's a good thing they don't measure the lightning lap from a standing start in the uphill esses.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:12 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.
You are very lucky then. If only everyone's HSA worked that way, we probably would have nearly 200 replies in here.

Want to trade cars for one the holds the brakes for 2 seconds? I'm sure plenty would oblige you. lol
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:56 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
I wonder if GM has made a change to the HSA system. This owner is the second recent delivery (dropspeed was the first) that has not seemed to have near the trouble that others have had. Maybe this is part of the reason for the big quality hold some of us are / have been waiting through. If so, maybe there is a retro for the older cars.
You might be on to something there!!
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:06 PM   #196
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Just got back from testing the fuse pull. Here are the results:

Pulled the following two fuses:

Fuse 40 Antilock Brake System Valves
Fuse 43 Antilock Brake System Pump

Upon startup, Brake, ABS, and Stabilitrak lights stay lit.
Also displays "Service Power Steering"

I guess the electric power steering on the 2012+ ties in with the ABS somehow.

HSA is totally gone after fuse pull, as well as Traction Control and ABS. Steering feels slightly heavier at parking lot speed, but not very noticeable at normal speeds. It's strange, it doesn't feel like power steering is gone, just slightly less boosted.

Not an optimal solution, but something I wanted to try for proof of concept. I just might keep it this way until a better solution is found. No HSA, and no need to turn off traction control everytime I start the car.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:31 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by SSRS1LE View Post
Just got back from testing the fuse pull. Here are the results:

Pulled the following two fuses:

Fuse 40 Antilock Brake System Valves
Fuse 43 Antilock Brake System Pump

Upon startup, Brake, ABS, and Stabilitrak lights stay lit.
Also displays "Service Power Steering"

I guess the electric power steering on the 2012+ ties in with the ABS somehow.

HSA is totally gone after fuse pull, as well as Traction Control and ABS. Steering feels slightly heavier at parking lot speed, but not very noticeable at normal speeds. It's strange, it doesn't feel like power steering is gone, just slightly less boosted.

Not an optimal solution, but something I wanted to try for proof of concept. I just might keep it this way until a better solution is found. No HSA, and no need to turn off traction control everytime I start the car.
You could wire in a switch. So you can flip it to deactivate HSA when you want but have everything else too.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:57 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by SSRS1LE View Post
Just got back from testing the fuse pull. Here are the results:

Pulled the following two fuses:

Fuse 40 Antilock Brake System Valves
Fuse 43 Antilock Brake System Pump

Upon startup, Brake, ABS, and Stabilitrak lights stay lit.
Also displays "Service Power Steering"

I guess the electric power steering on the 2012+ ties in with the ABS somehow.

HSA is totally gone after fuse pull, as well as Traction Control and ABS. Steering feels slightly heavier at parking lot speed, but not very noticeable at normal speeds. It's strange, it doesn't feel like power steering is gone, just slightly less boosted.

Not an optimal solution, but something I wanted to try for proof of concept. I just might keep it this way until a better solution is found. No HSA, and no need to turn off traction control everytime I start the car.
The "warning lights lit" result was absolutely predictable even if I hadn't read this month's Brake & Front End magazine - everything involving computer-commanded brake application is piggybacked on top of ABS. Take ABS down and the rest of this 'house of cards' falls (and this is precisely what worries me about people relying on these systems to save their sorry a$$e$).

What you don't know is whether the EPAS draws a signal through either of those fuses or if the message is set because one or more of ABS, TC, or ST has been rendered inop (yes, you took the ST down, too). Replacing the fuses and disconnecting one wheel sensor might tell you which of the above possibilities it is. Just remember that you'll still have shut all of the nannies off.


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Old 05-30-2013, 08:13 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
The "warning lights lit" result was absolutely predictable even if I hadn't read this month's Brake & Front End magazine - everything involving computer-commanded brake application is piggybacked on top of ABS. Take ABS down and the rest of this 'house of cards' falls (and this is precisely what worries me about people relying on these systems to save their sorry a$$e$).
That's my favorite magazine! On a serious note, this was not a long term solution. I just wanted to try "something" to disable HSA, because no one else has yet.

A better solution I would like to try is to disconnect the multi-axis acceleration sensor, because unplugging that should affect a few less systems. At least ABS should still work, and perhaps avoid the Power Steering message too.

In another post, MPHS_AGM had picked up a full set of 2013 Service Manuals, and was researching into wiring diagrams and such. Last info is that the sensor is under the center console somewhere, but I'd like to get some better specifics so I know exactly what I'm looking for before I just start tearing panels apart.

Anyone have their center console apart and see anything that looks like it could be a multi-axis acceleration sensor?
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:14 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
No offense Southern Comfort, but your statement made me laugh. It is as if any problem solving / performance improvement is just a fuse pull away! If I get my black 1LE, and don't like the color after a while, you know what I am gonna do.....wait for it.......I'm gonna try a fuse pull!!!!!!!
I wasn't suggesting it as a cure. If it modifies the behavior maybe it may offer another clue.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:28 PM   #201
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I wasn't suggesting it as a cure. If it modifies the behavior maybe it may offer another clue.
I know. Just having a bit of fun, and you might be right about it leading to something else.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:25 PM   #202
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I know. Just having a bit of fun, and you might be right about it leading to something else.
It's all good. Any news on yours yet?
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:17 AM   #203
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It's all good. Any news on yours yet?
It is at the dealer, splitter installed and detailed for delivery tonight. I went after work to see it, but they had it out filling it up. I then went back after my wife and I took care of some business and they had it locked up inside. We will see it, and drive it (never have driven a 1LE before) tonight when we pick it up. I did not sleep much last night! Are they holding CHP at Commerce?

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Old 05-31-2013, 07:11 AM   #204
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Just in time for the weekend and CHP in ATL.
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