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Old 05-28-2013, 01:22 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Jim968 View Post
So when you lower the car back down after recalibrating it will think its pointing downhill even though it is on level ground. Correct? Given that the HSA activates in reverse when you back up a hill won't your recalibration result in activation in reverse on level ground?
My thoughts exactly. I think having it kick on every time you back up would be worse that occasionally on take off.
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It's a Dingledarm. It's there to dampen side fumbling. If your marzelvanes fumble too much they can cause total protonic reversal. It gets ugly from there. This is really the biggest problem with the new Camaro. That and the tri-pronged blivot.

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Old 05-28-2013, 02:21 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Cody6.2 View Post
I can't believe what you guys are willing to do just to avoid HSA. It would almost seem as the avoidance tactics are more of a pain in the ass to me.
I'd take the PITA of any of the methods proposed so far to the excitement of stalling in the path of oncoming traffic.


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Old 05-28-2013, 02:25 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
it takes more throttle when you are starting from a stop up a steep hill then it does on flat ground because the load on the vehicle is greater, and that increased RPM exposes the clutch to more slipping before it is fully engaged, so if you use this system, it should help reduce clutch wear.
Debatable. Overcoming more brake drag than the absolute minimum necessary to hold you still on the given slope is likely to increase clutch wear.


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Old 05-28-2013, 02:33 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropspeed
That is how it worked for me in my car

As an experiment I will go to the same store/inclined parking tonight and try a couple different things to see what happens...I will report my findings later tonight!

I will try 3 things once I see HSA is activated

1) Step on the gas and release the clutch at the same time
2) Step on the gas without releasing the clutch
3) Start to release the clutch without stepping on the gas.

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Originally Posted by S3XPanther View Post
Like I said, I have a feeling sequence 3 is why people are having issues with HSA.
And sequence 3 is exactly what many experienced MT drivers follow in normal driving in order to minimize the amount of clutch slippage. With EFI there are many situations where you can get the car rolling without opening the throttle at all. To a considerable extent, the "stall-saver" routine built into EFI to compensate for suddenly added engine loads such as A/C or heavy electric demand at idle in neutral is helping.

Worst case when you're being sloppy, you might roll back an inch or two except on the more extreme slopes.


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Old 05-28-2013, 02:37 PM   #159
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It might activate more when backing up a hill, but since i've never had to back up a hill, i'll take that over the other. And for the rare occasion that i might have to back uphill, i can pull the parking brake up to the first click and disable the HSA
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:40 PM   #160
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I'm sure someone . . . will figure something out.
I'm beginning to think that a DIY defeat may be possible if you can figure out how to tell the electronics that the car is not in a forward gear going uphill or in reverse going downhill. I'd start looking around the transmission and its shifter . . .


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Old 05-28-2013, 02:47 PM   #161
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By the way, i'm not so sure about the downhill activation. There have been many times since i bought the car that i have been stuck in stop and go traffic pointing downhill at 6+ degrees and never had the HSA activate. I need to find an suitable hill and try this.
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:50 PM   #162
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You have to want to be backing up. There is a "which transmission gear am I in" input to the HSA logic as well as minimum slope.


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Old 05-28-2013, 03:07 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by bandit4008 View Post
By the way, i'm not so sure about the downhill activation. There have been many times since i bought the car that i have been stuck in stop and go traffic pointing downhill at 6+ degrees and never had the HSA activate. I need to find an suitable hill and try this.
It doesn't activate going downhill. It only activates going uphill, but does so going forward and in reverse if you're backing up a hill.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:34 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by bandit4008 View Post
It might activate more when backing up a hill, but since i've never had to back up a hill, i'll take that over the other. And for the rare occasion that i might have to back uphill, i can pull the parking brake up to the first click and disable the HSA
But once the sensor is tricked into thinking the nose is lower than it actually is, it wall always think its backing up hill. And every time you need to back up it will engage HSA. Not just when on a hill.
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It's a Dingledarm. It's there to dampen side fumbling. If your marzelvanes fumble too much they can cause total protonic reversal. It gets ugly from there. This is really the biggest problem with the new Camaro. That and the tri-pronged blivot.

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Old 05-29-2013, 09:09 AM   #165
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There seems to be some dissagreement about what conditions cause the HSA to activate. In first or reverse, uphill & downhill. I am wondering if everyone is just repeating what they have heard and not actually verified the operation. The following is how my system works which has been verified several times.

2103 2SS

1. HSA activation occurs the moment the car come to a complete stop facing uphill with the clutch depressed and the brakes applied. The car DOES NOT have to be in gear, nuetral will activate the HSA. I don't even think the computer knows what gear its in except for reverse which is needed for the backup camera and backup lights.
2. HSA DOES NOT activate under any circumstances that i can find when facing downhill. backing uphill is not a problem. It could be i have not found a steep enough hill and i am going to find a steeper hil to try. I used the same incline for reverse testing that i used for uphill.

We can speculate all we want. when i recalibrate the zero on Saturday, i'll know for sure if this will work. I'm sure this post will cause some heated replies, but this is how my system works
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:54 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by bandit4008 View Post
2. HSA DOES NOT activate under any circumstances that i can find when facing downhill. backing uphill is not a problem. It could be i have not found a steep enough hill and i am going to find a steeper hil to try. I used the same incline for reverse testing that i used for uphill.

We can speculate all we want. when i recalibrate the zero on Saturday, i'll know for sure if this will work. I'm sure this post will cause some heated replies, but this is how my system works
It DOES activate when reversing uphill. Just verified again in my driveway 2 minutes ago. I could shoot and post video proof, but its probably easier for you to find a steeper hill and try it in your car.

Looking forward to your recalibration test results. Just make sure you can reverse on flat ground without activation before you declare victory.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:54 AM   #167
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Yes HSA works in reverse as well as forward gears. It does also measure incline as well, but that appears to be a boolean, ie either yes there is an incline or no there is not an incline - not a measure of degree. In the case of incline == true, then the brake pressure used by the driver is duplicated to hold the car.

The incline test can be fooled with a sudden stop on flat ground, so the actual measuring device may be an accelerometer.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:34 PM   #168
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I believe the measuring device is the pitch sensor - this can measure inclination directly as well as infer something about acceleration/deceleration based on the car's pitch angle under braking.

Nobody seems to be having HSA intervene on ground that's almost but not quite level, so there is some angular tolerance involved.


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