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Old 05-26-2013, 04:22 PM   #151
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Been playing with this the last few days. I found that the experienced driver method of dealing with hills doesn't work. Try to bare with me as this is hard to explain.

I tried leaving on a hill with the usual blip of the throttle and a somewhat aggressive lift of the clutch like I have done for years when driving a manual. Almost stalled the engine.

Then I tried leaving as though I was on flat ground. A slight touch on the throttle and a slow gradual lift of the clutch. Pulled away like butter.

It seems as though us experienced manual drivers are just too fast for the system. I know it sounds crazy, but try pulling gently away as soon as the light changes. No anticipation of the HSA release point. No attempt to avoid rolling back. Just a normal flat ground in traffic low rpm launch. Let the torque get the car rolling and I think you will notice it as being less intrusive.
I've started to notice this as well...if I'm anticipating the HSA I'm more likely to stall or jerk the car forward. If I treat it like a normal start, I rarely ever have issues. I would like to see an option to turn it on/off though
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Old 05-28-2013, 10:53 AM   #152
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So i have been working with the service department at the dealership where i bought my car. The HSA was new for 2013 and initially they had almost no information on how the system is supposed work. Since then, they have been in repeated contact with GM and they have been testing new cars on the lot as they rotate through. I get the impression that GM is less than helpful and at this time there is no way to totally disable the system. One thing they found with the testing was that there was there was quite a bit of variance from car to car in terms of what incline was required to activate the HSA. The only thing they can do is recalibrate the 0 incline. Based on this ,i suggested that we raise the front of the car a couple of degrees when we do the calibration. If this works, then at least the HSA won't come on uless you are on a really steep hill. I am going down the the dealership this Saturday to test this and will report back
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:57 PM   #153
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Damn thing got me again over the weekend. stopped on a slight hill where I needed to drive straight across the road. You have to be quick here because it is close to an overpass (hill blocks view of traffic coming from the right). I give a bit of throttle and ease off the clutch...not moving...not moving...more throttle...more...SQUEAL (burnout as soon as HSA kicks off)...

Look like a dumbass in his 1st standard tans car...
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:15 PM   #154
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The only thing they can do is recalibrate the 0 incline. Based on this ,i suggested that we raise the front of the car a couple of degrees when we do the calibration. If this works, then at least the HSA won't come on uless you are on a really steep hill. I am going down the the dealership this Saturday to test this and will report back
So when you lower the car back down after recalibrating it will think its pointing downhill even though it is on level ground. Correct? Given that the HSA activates in reverse when you back up a hill won't your recalibration result in activation in reverse on level ground?
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:22 PM   #155
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So when you lower the car back down after recalibrating it will think its pointing downhill even though it is on level ground. Correct? Given that the HSA activates in reverse when you back up a hill won't your recalibration result in activation in reverse on level ground?
My thoughts exactly. I think having it kick on every time you back up would be worse that occasionally on take off.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #156
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I can't believe what you guys are willing to do just to avoid HSA. It would almost seem as the avoidance tactics are more of a pain in the ass to me.
I'd take the PITA of any of the methods proposed so far to the excitement of stalling in the path of oncoming traffic.


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Old 05-28-2013, 03:25 PM   #157
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it takes more throttle when you are starting from a stop up a steep hill then it does on flat ground because the load on the vehicle is greater, and that increased RPM exposes the clutch to more slipping before it is fully engaged, so if you use this system, it should help reduce clutch wear.
Debatable. Overcoming more brake drag than the absolute minimum necessary to hold you still on the given slope is likely to increase clutch wear.


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Old 05-28-2013, 03:33 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Dropspeed
That is how it worked for me in my car

As an experiment I will go to the same store/inclined parking tonight and try a couple different things to see what happens...I will report my findings later tonight!

I will try 3 things once I see HSA is activated

1) Step on the gas and release the clutch at the same time
2) Step on the gas without releasing the clutch
3) Start to release the clutch without stepping on the gas.

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Like I said, I have a feeling sequence 3 is why people are having issues with HSA.
And sequence 3 is exactly what many experienced MT drivers follow in normal driving in order to minimize the amount of clutch slippage. With EFI there are many situations where you can get the car rolling without opening the throttle at all. To a considerable extent, the "stall-saver" routine built into EFI to compensate for suddenly added engine loads such as A/C or heavy electric demand at idle in neutral is helping.

Worst case when you're being sloppy, you might roll back an inch or two except on the more extreme slopes.


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Old 05-28-2013, 03:37 PM   #159
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It might activate more when backing up a hill, but since i've never had to back up a hill, i'll take that over the other. And for the rare occasion that i might have to back uphill, i can pull the parking brake up to the first click and disable the HSA
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:40 PM   #160
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I'm sure someone . . . will figure something out.
I'm beginning to think that a DIY defeat may be possible if you can figure out how to tell the electronics that the car is not in a forward gear going uphill or in reverse going downhill. I'd start looking around the transmission and its shifter . . .


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Old 05-28-2013, 03:47 PM   #161
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By the way, i'm not so sure about the downhill activation. There have been many times since i bought the car that i have been stuck in stop and go traffic pointing downhill at 6+ degrees and never had the HSA activate. I need to find an suitable hill and try this.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:50 PM   #162
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You have to want to be backing up. There is a "which transmission gear am I in" input to the HSA logic as well as minimum slope.


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Old 05-28-2013, 04:07 PM   #163
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By the way, i'm not so sure about the downhill activation. There have been many times since i bought the car that i have been stuck in stop and go traffic pointing downhill at 6+ degrees and never had the HSA activate. I need to find an suitable hill and try this.
It doesn't activate going downhill. It only activates going uphill, but does so going forward and in reverse if you're backing up a hill.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:34 PM   #164
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It might activate more when backing up a hill, but since i've never had to back up a hill, i'll take that over the other. And for the rare occasion that i might have to back uphill, i can pull the parking brake up to the first click and disable the HSA
But once the sensor is tricked into thinking the nose is lower than it actually is, it wall always think its backing up hill. And every time you need to back up it will engage HSA. Not just when on a hill.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:09 AM   #165
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There seems to be some dissagreement about what conditions cause the HSA to activate. In first or reverse, uphill & downhill. I am wondering if everyone is just repeating what they have heard and not actually verified the operation. The following is how my system works which has been verified several times.

2103 2SS

1. HSA activation occurs the moment the car come to a complete stop facing uphill with the clutch depressed and the brakes applied. The car DOES NOT have to be in gear, nuetral will activate the HSA. I don't even think the computer knows what gear its in except for reverse which is needed for the backup camera and backup lights.
2. HSA DOES NOT activate under any circumstances that i can find when facing downhill. backing uphill is not a problem. It could be i have not found a steep enough hill and i am going to find a steeper hil to try. I used the same incline for reverse testing that i used for uphill.

We can speculate all we want. when i recalibrate the zero on Saturday, i'll know for sure if this will work. I'm sure this post will cause some heated replies, but this is how my system works
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:54 AM   #166
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2. HSA DOES NOT activate under any circumstances that i can find when facing downhill. backing uphill is not a problem. It could be i have not found a steep enough hill and i am going to find a steeper hil to try. I used the same incline for reverse testing that i used for uphill.

We can speculate all we want. when i recalibrate the zero on Saturday, i'll know for sure if this will work. I'm sure this post will cause some heated replies, but this is how my system works
It DOES activate when reversing uphill. Just verified again in my driveway 2 minutes ago. I could shoot and post video proof, but its probably easier for you to find a steeper hill and try it in your car.

Looking forward to your recalibration test results. Just make sure you can reverse on flat ground without activation before you declare victory.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:54 PM   #167
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Yes HSA works in reverse as well as forward gears. It does also measure incline as well, but that appears to be a boolean, ie either yes there is an incline or no there is not an incline - not a measure of degree. In the case of incline == true, then the brake pressure used by the driver is duplicated to hold the car.

The incline test can be fooled with a sudden stop on flat ground, so the actual measuring device may be an accelerometer.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:34 PM   #168
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I believe the measuring device is the pitch sensor - this can measure inclination directly as well as infer something about acceleration/deceleration based on the car's pitch angle under braking.

Nobody seems to be having HSA intervene on ground that's almost but not quite level, so there is some angular tolerance involved.


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Old 05-29-2013, 01:53 PM   #169
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There are two things that work.As long as the brake and clutch aren't pressed at the same time it wont activate,as well if you put the parking brake at the 1st click,even if the clutch and brake are pressed at the same time,it wont activate.I tried it today while trying to go over the frwy.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:18 PM   #170
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The service technician at the dealership confirmed that it is the longitudinal accelerometer
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:32 PM   #171
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Thanks, bandit, had it backwards.


Probably more information than necessary, but there might be something in here that somebody finds useful (Brake & Front End is a monthly independent automotive repair industry magazine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake & Front End site
ABS + ESC: Diagnosis of Accelerometers and Yaw Sensors

Accelerometers measure gravitational pull in gravitational force or G-force. Some cars will have one or two sensors depending on sophistication of the system. Some systems group the accelerometers in a sensor cluster. The typical sensor may cost $400 to $800.


Lateral/Transverse
These sensors are typically found under the center console near the vehicle’s center of gravity.

Your scan tool will read the sensor output in G-force or G. A typical road vehicle will be able to corner around one G. Single-seat race cars can corner at 4- to 5-Gs. Most production car accelerometers have a limit of 4-Gs.


Longitudinal
These sensors measure braking and acceleration. This can be used to determine how hard the driver is accelerating or braking. Longitudinal sensors can also be used to calculate the angle of the vehicle for hill holding.

It is very difficult and even dangerous to drive the vehicle and look at the readings from an accelerometer. You will see only minor movement in the sensor.

The best way to measure the performance of an accelerometer is to rotate it 90 degrees. When a lateral accelerometer is rotated 90º, it should read 1-G. When a longitudinal sensor is rotated on its end, it will read 1-G. This is because gravity is equal to 1-G.

Most accelerometers are wired with three wires. These include a 5-volt power, ground and signal wires. The signal wire will vary the voltage from 0-5-volts depending on G-force.

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Old 05-29-2013, 08:49 PM   #172
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I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:05 PM   #173
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I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
Im not being an ass,but take a look at post #73.This thing DOES NOT WORK FLAWLESSLY!!!!!! and im pretty sure i have been driving a manual a lot longer the you.Again this thing has no business being on a "High Performance sports car"!
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:14 PM   #174
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I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
You've had the car less than a week and you make this statement that those of us who are experiencing issues with HSA and have been driving standards for 20+ years don't know how to drive a manual????? Really?!?!?

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Old 05-29-2013, 09:18 PM   #175
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I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
Pretty sure the consensus is pretty clear. HSA works okay IF you DON'T know how to drive a manual well. Do you dd your 1le? Do you dd your 1le on any sort of hills in congested southern Cali? If the answer is yes to both, then we must meet and you can show me how to drive without it being a pia.
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