Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
TireRack
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Specific Models / Packages > Camaro 1LE Forum

Camaro 1LE Forum Camaro 1LE Package releated discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-29-2013, 08:54 PM   #176
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 2,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
I just received my 1le last friday. I have messed with the HSA, it works flawlessly if you know how to drive a manual.
I think the best I can give you there is that your individual car works "flawlessly" for your own personal hand and foot timing.

I'm betting that you aren't trying to drive off as per sequence 3 posted earlier (more or less, clutch out to or just past the friction point before getting the throttle involved, and yes this is a very reasonable way to "drive stick"). No flame intended, I'm just old enough to be somewhere between blunt and downright crotchety about this topic.


That said . . . I have heard rumors that HSA intrusiveness was being dialed back for 2014, so maybe that snuck in as a running production change. That's as far as I'll go to concede that it might be getting better. And no, it still wouldn't be good enough for me. "OFF" means not even a little bit "ON".


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 09:01 PM   #177
KlugSS
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornerspeed92 View Post
Im not being an ass,but take a look at post #73.This thing DOES NOT WORK FLAWLESSLY!!!!!! and im pretty sure i have been driving a manual a lot longer the you.Again this thing has no business being on a "High Performance sports car"!
What does length of driving time with a manual have anything to do with knowledge? Anyone with 10+ years shouldn't be questioned.
This is a camaro, I wouldn't call it a HIGH performance Sports cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgg60 View Post
You've had the car less than a week and you make this statement that those of us who are experiencing issues with HSA and have been driving standards for 20+ years don't know how to drive a manual????? Really?!?!?

Again it works absolutely flawless on mine. Not a single complaint, no tire spin, brakes release the exact moment it needs too. Perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allgrey View Post
Pretty sure the consensus is pretty clear. HSA works okay IF you DON'T know how to drive a manual well. Do you dd your 1le? Do you dd your 1le on any sort of hills in congested southern Cali? If the answer is yes to both, then we must meet and you can show me how to drive without it being a pia.
I have put 2,000 miles on mine since last friday. I daily it so far and i live in an area with severe hills, hell it activates in my own driveway when I let my girlfriend out before i pull into the garage.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 09:14 PM   #178
KlugSS
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I think the best I can give you there is that your individual car works "flawlessly" for your own personal hand and foot timing.

I'm betting that you aren't trying to drive off as per sequence 3 posted earlier (more or less, clutch out to or just past the friction point before getting the throttle involved, and yes this is a very reasonable way to "drive stick"). No flame intended, I'm just old enough to be somewhere between blunt and downright crotchety about this topic.

Norm
After reading your last couple posts, i could see how some people that are either a) still driving the same way they drove 20 years ago or b) simply being to ***** footed to drive the car properly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 09:35 PM   #179
cornerspeed92


 
cornerspeed92's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
What does length of driving time with a manual have anything to do with knowledge? Anyone with 10+ years shouldn't be questioned.
This is a camaro, I wouldn't call it a HIGH performance Sports cars.



Again it works absolutely flawless on mine. Not a single complaint, no tire spin, brakes release the exact moment it needs too. Perfect.



I have put 2,000 miles on mine since last friday. I daily it so far and i live in an area with severe hills, hell it activates in my own driveway when I let my girlfriend out before i pull into the garage.
I disagree,there is a little emblem in the engine compartment that says"GM HIGH PERFORMANCE"that wouldn't be there on a lesser model.The ZL1,1LE.Z28,are hot rods!!!!!!!!there is no dispute on this issue.
cornerspeed92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 10:47 PM   #180
Michael2000
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
After reading your last couple posts, i could see how some people that are either a) still driving the same way they drove 20 years ago or b) simply being to ***** footed to drive the car properly.
What's this "new" style of driving a manual you are referring to? Burning up the clutch in 10,000 miles with HSA engaged?

I prefer to keep my 20 year old driving style, than to have some sissy car nanny try to drive it for me.

Michael
Michael2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 10:55 PM   #181
turboguy327
 
Drives: 2011 Chevy Camaro
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 650
I found out today this stupid crap holds the trailer brakes on my 2012 silverado 3500. Holds the truck and trailer brakes for 3 seconds no matter what the hell I do.
turboguy327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 11:07 PM   #182
KlugSS
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post
What's this "new" style of driving a manual you are referring to? Burning up the clutch in 10,000 miles with HSA engaged?

I prefer to keep my 20 year old driving style, than to have some sissy car nanny try to drive it for me.

Michael
Why would the clutch burn out? I have never had to ride my clutch to get going.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 05:12 AM   #183
gajagfan

 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 1,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I think the best I can give you there is that your individual car works "flawlessly" for your own personal hand and foot timing.

I'm betting that you aren't trying to drive off as per sequence 3 posted earlier (more or less, clutch out to or just past the friction point before getting the throttle involved, and yes this is a very reasonable way to "drive stick"). No flame intended, I'm just old enough to be somewhere between blunt and downright crotchety about

That said . . . I have heard rumors that HSA intrusiveness was being dialed back for 2014, so maybe that snuck in as a running production change. That's as far as I'll go to concede that it might be getting better. And no, it still wouldn't be good enough for me. "OFF" means not even a little bit "ON".


Norm
I wonder if GM has made a change to the HSA system. This owner is the second recent delivery (dropspeed was the first) that has not seemed to have near the trouble that others have had. Maybe this is part of the reason for the big quality hold some of us are / have been waiting through. If so, maybe there is a retro for the older cars.
gajagfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 08:30 AM   #184
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 2,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
After reading your last couple posts, i could see how some people that are either a) still driving the same way they drove 20 years ago or b) simply being to ***** footed to drive the car properly.
Item a) works just fine when you're left to drive by your own skills that you allow yourself to develop. Worked on anything from 100 HP inline-6 shoebox Chevvies to far more powerful V8's and axle gearing that gets you to 55 mph in 1st gear at under 5500 rpm and everything on up through anything built today. Like I've said before, it's easier on the clutch wear surfaces when you engage them at low revs and low power than when you're forced to make them slip more with more power being transmitted through them (exactly what having to overpower the HSA brakes forces you to do). Except when racing, more clutch slip than necessary = having a sloppy clutch skill level.

By the way you phrased item b) it sounds like you think more of a drag-race start is appropriate all the time and everywhere. It isn't. Wait until the snow flies again, or just the first rainstorm after a dry spell, and feel free to get back to this thread with your complaints of excessive TC and ST intervention. Some of us will then feel free to comment that "***** footed" driving is something that even you should learn (be permitted to learn, as it were).


For me, 20 years ago only covers the recent driving history (my younger kid has 20 years of driving experience herself, nearly all of it MT). Time was when you had to demonstrate the ability to start up on a hill without rolling back, as a means of demonstrating that you understood and had learned a semblance of car control.

I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly that back then, failure at the hill start part of the driving test either flunked you completely or maybe you got a license that limited you to driving automatics only. Having passed mine for unrestricted tranny type the first time - we actually tested for the DMV examiner straight out of H.S. Driver's Ed in manual transmission Ford Falcons, the alternatives never mattered to me. So I hope you'll excuse my uncertainty, it's been 50 years.

When I read the 'howstuffworks' article on HSA, I found it to be presented in a scary light all out of proportion to what the situation merits. You'd begin to wonder how people ever managed without it. Pure scare-mongering at its best, and the hidden scary part of that is how many people buy into it without doing any thinking of their own. That article was about HSA in general, not the stall-prone system we're discussing here, so it didn't even think to look for any downsides.


Norm

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-30-2013 at 08:42 AM.
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 09:25 AM   #185
SSRS1LE
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 73
I think it was bandit4008 that mentioned earlier that his dealer has been testing HSA on the cars that rotated through, and that the HSA behavior was not consistent from car to car.

So it may not be that a few individuals found a special way of driving makes it less invasive. It could just be that they lucked out and got a car where HSA is less invasive than on others.
SSRS1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 10:03 AM   #186
Southern Comfort
No Tags/Habitual Violator
 
Southern Comfort's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 SIM 1LE & 2010 ABM/LT/RS
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 2,003
Or it learns driver behavior and attempts to compensate.
Anyone try a fuse pull yet?
__________________

2010 2SS Vortech (sold).... 2010 2LT ABM (sweet).... 2013 1LE 2SS (sold)... 2013 1LE possibly 44 of 44
Check out the Atlanta area A.C.E.5 events page
Southern Comfort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 11:37 AM   #187
gajagfan

 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 1,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Comfort View Post
Or it learns driver behavior and attempts to compensate.
Anyone try a fuse pull yet?
No offense Southern Comfort, but your statement made me laugh. It is as if any problem solving / performance improvement is just a fuse pull away! If I get my black 1LE, and don't like the color after a while, you know what I am gonna do.....wait for it.......I'm gonna try a fuse pull!!!!!!!
gajagfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 01:16 PM   #188
natmad
 
natmad's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 1LE 1SS NPP Recaros soon?
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: raleigh, nc
Posts: 68
A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Conversely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.

Last edited by natmad; 05-30-2013 at 04:45 PM. Reason: sppelling...
natmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 01:19 PM   #189
cornerspeed92


 
cornerspeed92's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by natmad View Post
A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Converely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.
.......yeah what he said!
cornerspeed92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 02:08 PM   #190
SSRS1LE
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by natmad View Post
On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily.
How embarassing would it be to get beat by a car that's 2 seconds slower because the Hill Nanny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
No offense Southern Comfort, but your statement made me laugh. It is as if any problem solving / performance improvement is just a fuse pull away! If I get my black 1LE, and don't like the color after a while, you know what I am gonna do.....wait for it.......I'm gonna try a fuse pull!!!!!!!
I'm actually contemplating the fuse pull, except it will disable more than just HSA. Pulling fuse #40 and #43 will disable HSA, but you also lose ABS and Traction Control, and you get some lights on the dash.

But heck my first Camaro didn't have any of that stuff.......
__________________
____________________________________

Modifications: HSA Elimination - Cold Air Inductions Intake
Solo Performance Mach Cat Back - Skip-Shift Eliminator
SSRS1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 03:17 PM   #191
KlugSS
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 03:26 PM   #192
Buckeye
Buckeye
 
Drives: 2013 2SS RS 1LE
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tucson
Posts: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.
I can only wish mine worked that way.......
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 03:49 PM   #193
Jim968
 
Jim968's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by natmad View Post
A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Converely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.
Agree 100%.

BTW it's a good thing they don't measure the lightning lap from a standing start in the uphill esses.
Jim968 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 05:12 PM   #194
SSRS1LE
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.
You are very lucky then. If only everyone's HSA worked that way, we probably would have nearly 200 replies in here.

Want to trade cars for one the holds the brakes for 2 seconds? I'm sure plenty would oblige you. lol
__________________
____________________________________

Modifications: HSA Elimination - Cold Air Inductions Intake
Solo Performance Mach Cat Back - Skip-Shift Eliminator
SSRS1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 05:56 PM   #195
fgg60
Sweet Annie!! BRM
 
fgg60's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 2SS/RS 1LE BRM NPP CF5
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bristol, CT
Posts: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
I wonder if GM has made a change to the HSA system. This owner is the second recent delivery (dropspeed was the first) that has not seemed to have near the trouble that others have had. Maybe this is part of the reason for the big quality hold some of us are / have been waiting through. If so, maybe there is a retro for the older cars.
You might be on to something there!!
__________________
FGG60 - (BRM 2SS 1LE) 1 of 70!!
fgg60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 06:06 PM   #196
SSRS1LE
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 73
Just got back from testing the fuse pull. Here are the results:

Pulled the following two fuses:

Fuse 40 Antilock Brake System Valves
Fuse 43 Antilock Brake System Pump

Upon startup, Brake, ABS, and Stabilitrak lights stay lit.
Also displays "Service Power Steering"

I guess the electric power steering on the 2012+ ties in with the ABS somehow.

HSA is totally gone after fuse pull, as well as Traction Control and ABS. Steering feels slightly heavier at parking lot speed, but not very noticeable at normal speeds. It's strange, it doesn't feel like power steering is gone, just slightly less boosted.

Not an optimal solution, but something I wanted to try for proof of concept. I just might keep it this way until a better solution is found. No HSA, and no need to turn off traction control everytime I start the car.
SSRS1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 06:31 PM   #197
turboguy327
 
Drives: 2011 Chevy Camaro
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSRS1LE View Post
Just got back from testing the fuse pull. Here are the results:

Pulled the following two fuses:

Fuse 40 Antilock Brake System Valves
Fuse 43 Antilock Brake System Pump

Upon startup, Brake, ABS, and Stabilitrak lights stay lit.
Also displays "Service Power Steering"

I guess the electric power steering on the 2012+ ties in with the ABS somehow.

HSA is totally gone after fuse pull, as well as Traction Control and ABS. Steering feels slightly heavier at parking lot speed, but not very noticeable at normal speeds. It's strange, it doesn't feel like power steering is gone, just slightly less boosted.

Not an optimal solution, but something I wanted to try for proof of concept. I just might keep it this way until a better solution is found. No HSA, and no need to turn off traction control everytime I start the car.
You could wire in a switch. So you can flip it to deactivate HSA when you want but have everything else too.
turboguy327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 06:57 PM   #198
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 2,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSRS1LE View Post
Just got back from testing the fuse pull. Here are the results:

Pulled the following two fuses:

Fuse 40 Antilock Brake System Valves
Fuse 43 Antilock Brake System Pump

Upon startup, Brake, ABS, and Stabilitrak lights stay lit.
Also displays "Service Power Steering"

I guess the electric power steering on the 2012+ ties in with the ABS somehow.

HSA is totally gone after fuse pull, as well as Traction Control and ABS. Steering feels slightly heavier at parking lot speed, but not very noticeable at normal speeds. It's strange, it doesn't feel like power steering is gone, just slightly less boosted.

Not an optimal solution, but something I wanted to try for proof of concept. I just might keep it this way until a better solution is found. No HSA, and no need to turn off traction control everytime I start the car.
The "warning lights lit" result was absolutely predictable even if I hadn't read this month's Brake & Front End magazine - everything involving computer-commanded brake application is piggybacked on top of ABS. Take ABS down and the rest of this 'house of cards' falls (and this is precisely what worries me about people relying on these systems to save their sorry a$$e$).

What you don't know is whether the EPAS draws a signal through either of those fuses or if the message is set because one or more of ABS, TC, or ST has been rendered inop (yes, you took the ST down, too). Replacing the fuses and disconnecting one wheel sensor might tell you which of the above possibilities it is. Just remember that you'll still have shut all of the nannies off.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 07:13 PM   #199
SSRS1LE
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
The "warning lights lit" result was absolutely predictable even if I hadn't read this month's Brake & Front End magazine - everything involving computer-commanded brake application is piggybacked on top of ABS. Take ABS down and the rest of this 'house of cards' falls (and this is precisely what worries me about people relying on these systems to save their sorry a$$e$).
That's my favorite magazine! On a serious note, this was not a long term solution. I just wanted to try "something" to disable HSA, because no one else has yet.

A better solution I would like to try is to disconnect the multi-axis acceleration sensor, because unplugging that should affect a few less systems. At least ABS should still work, and perhaps avoid the Power Steering message too.

In another post, MPHS_AGM had picked up a full set of 2013 Service Manuals, and was researching into wiring diagrams and such. Last info is that the sensor is under the center console somewhere, but I'd like to get some better specifics so I know exactly what I'm looking for before I just start tearing panels apart.

Anyone have their center console apart and see anything that looks like it could be a multi-axis acceleration sensor?
SSRS1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 08:14 PM   #200
Southern Comfort
No Tags/Habitual Violator
 
Southern Comfort's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 SIM 1LE & 2010 ABM/LT/RS
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 2,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajagfan View Post
No offense Southern Comfort, but your statement made me laugh. It is as if any problem solving / performance improvement is just a fuse pull away! If I get my black 1LE, and don't like the color after a while, you know what I am gonna do.....wait for it.......I'm gonna try a fuse pull!!!!!!!
I wasn't suggesting it as a cure. If it modifies the behavior maybe it may offer another clue.
__________________

2010 2SS Vortech (sold).... 2010 2LT ABM (sweet).... 2013 1LE 2SS (sold)... 2013 1LE possibly 44 of 44
Check out the Atlanta area A.C.E.5 events page
Southern Comfort is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.