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Old 09-17-2012, 01:16 PM   #1
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Drive by wire conversion to Drive by cable?

Hey guys, Just curious if anyone has any input for changing the "drive by wire" to a "drive by cable" system? I perfer the better throttle response of cable. I assume a new TB and possibly pedal?
Does anyone make a full conversion kit?

Thanks guys
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:26 PM   #2
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Not many things are impossible depending on how much money you have to spend, but this is. The engine management system/ECM is engineered for drive by wire from the start, there is no such thing as a "conversion" with any car with DBW.

If you were to remove the gas pedal on DBW systems, which has about 10 wires in a harness that plugs into a harness that goes to your ECM, and replace it with one that uses a cable, you will have check engine lights all over the place and an engine that may not even start. The gas pedal in your car now is actually an electronic potentiometer, like a volume knob on modern stereos. As you press your foot down, it takes the input voltage from the ECM and increases it. The difference in voltages is what the ECM uses to increase timing, fuel/air delivery, and everything else.

It's really completely computer controlled. You cannot operate your engine without the DBW gas pedal installed.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:27 PM   #3
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I think you would have to change more than the TB. Probably a few sensors and the ECM to accomodate the cable TB and not a DBW TB. Brackets and such plus a new hole drilled for the cable.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:27 PM   #4
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Just get a ported TB and a good tune
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:47 PM   #5
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How do you know that a cable has better response than the electronic?

The reason I ask is that this same question came up over in the C6 forum -- that there was a "lag" induced by the slow response of the electronic throttle system.

The easily-verifiable answer is that the electronic throttle is every bit as fast as any cable. Any "delays" are due NOT to the inability of the ETC to keep up with your foot, but are purposely in the engine's PCM programming. Attempting an old-school Bypassing of those delays without PCM reprogramming is just an (expensive) exercise in frustration.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:07 PM   #6
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Not a fan of drive by wire, my way of knowing its slower than a cable system is not very scientific but proved my point to myself.

in my 04 Mustang GT I would cut on average .050-.090 lights. With a best of .009

07 mustang GT with drive by wire .250-350 with a best of around .150
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:36 PM   #7
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Drive by cable always has better throttle response than drive by wire...however...measureable? That I think has yet to be seen.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:54 PM   #8
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The method I used to prove to myself was to have the hood of my C6 open, stand in the open drivers door with 1 foot on the gas pedal. From that odd stance, I could see the throttle butterfly open/close as i pumped the gas pedal. (ignition on, but engine not running, of course)

To my eyes, even as fast as I could stomp the gas pedal, it sure LOOKED like the correlated response was as instantaneous as a cable. No perceptible lag between my foot hitting the floor and the throttle plate at wide open.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveagogo1 View Post
Just get a ported TB and a good tune
This.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:05 PM   #10
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That butterfly lag is programmed in. I don't remember the exact numbers but I think it was .75 sec before it would go to wide open throttle. That is part of the torque management system on the engine side.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:50 AM   #11
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My fathers Trailblazer SS had a bad throttle delay. A diablo programmer with a tune on it from SLP took care of the problem. He couldn't even tell it was Drive-by-wire after putting the tune in.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:31 AM   #12
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Honestly, it would be cheaper to tune out the lag then remove drive by wire. A good tune will respond just as fast as a cable.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:04 AM   #13
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It can't be done without completely changing over the electronic engine control. The traction control, etc. is all tied in with thee ECM. In fact, all of the electronic modules on the car are networked together. You can't change anything in that structure without breaking the function of another system.

As for the Mustang guy that couldn't cut his usual light, you simply need to adjust your launch. No different than if you've changed a suspension, driveline, or engine component. Plenty of guys in those cars can cut a quick light. To blame it on the DBW isn't a good defense.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:14 AM   #14
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Anything with the right time and money is possible but the question is if it's worth it. IMO in this case no

Quote:
Originally Posted by nak3dsnake View Post
Honestly, it would be cheaper to tune out the lag then remove drive by wire. A good tune will respond just as fast as a cable.
THIS.

IMO if it's that big of a deal try the tune, it will be mucho cheaper.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:39 AM   #15
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The only way to do this properly would be to replace your LS engine with an L89 427 from 1967, complete with tri-power and distributor setup. That don't need no stinkin' computer.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:52 PM   #16
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It can't be done without completely changing over the electronic engine control. The traction control, etc. is all tied in with thee ECM. In fact, all of the electronic modules on the car are networked together. You can't change anything in that structure without breaking the function of another system.

As for the Mustang guy that couldn't cut his usual light, you simply need to adjust your launch. No different than if you've changed a suspension, driveline, or engine component. Plenty of guys in those cars can cut a quick light. To blame it on the DBW isn't a good defense.

I know some guys could get used to it and cut better lights, I was simply throwing out averages. I could not get used to the lag, I needed the driver mod lol.

in the 04 on sportsman tree, I would hit the throttle when the last amber is lit. With my 07 on a sportsman, I had to hit the throttle inbetween the second amber going off and third amber lighting up to cut a decent light. more seat time would have helped for sure. But I I know if I could do back to back to passes I could cut better lights in a cable throttle then wire
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:21 PM   #17
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I personally HATE the DBW! I don't lift on shifts, and I can hear the TB closing the moment the clutch pedal is depressed (there's a switch at the top, that also controls the cruise control turning off). I can hit the next gear and be out of the clutch before the TB opens back up, which then lurches the car. It's even more noticeable now that I have gears in the back. I miss the days of wide-open, full-throttle power shifts!
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:26 PM   #18
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bump from the past...

I will be running a drive by cable in my 70 GTO with the LS3... I have all the 2004 GTO stuff... LS1 computer and harness and 2004 GTO interior.

I hear the Challenger guys complaining about the decal and accel of drive by wire...

The swap isn't pretty, but I had a 2004 GTO as a donor...
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastball View Post
Not many things are impossible depending on how much money you have to spend, but this is. The engine management system/ECM is engineered for drive by wire from the start, there is no such thing as a "conversion" with any car with DBW.

If you were to remove the gas pedal on DBW systems, which has about 10 wires in a harness that plugs into a harness that goes to your ECM, and replace it with one that uses a cable, you will have check engine lights all over the place and an engine that may not even start. The gas pedal in your car now is actually an electronic potentiometer, like a volume knob on modern stereos. As you press your foot down, it takes the input voltage from the ECM and increases it. The difference in voltages is what the ECM uses to increase timing, fuel/air delivery, and everything else.

It's really completely computer controlled. You cannot operate your engine without the DBW gas pedal installed.

In other words this does not make a good post apocalyptic dooms day get around vehicle, need an old carburetor '69 for that. A 5th gen Mad Max will not be riding around in
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:31 AM   #20
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The throttle response is there when you need it. It would just smoke off the tires all day if it had a cable throttle and no traction control.

You want to rev your engine at stoplights and stuff, well the ECM knows that isn't necessary so it's not quick on the throttle response when you try to do that. Ask your tuner there are probably some settings they can adjust to speed up the delay a little bit.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by alanamhb View Post
The gas pedal in your car now is actually an electronic potentiometer, like a volume knob on modern stereos.

Yes that is true but just because you have it to the floor does not mean the butterfly is wide open. The ecm has total control over the throttle servo motor. The system regulates airflow automatically when you tell it to do something the engine doesn't need, such as being WOT at 2000 rpm or tapping on your gas pedal, dancing on your gas pedal there will always be lag. They are programmed to take your foot input as a suggestion. Most of the time it is doing exactly what you tell it to do though if you are driving the car correctly. This system along with the ECM also operates the cruise control function.
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