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Old 05-04-2013, 08:12 PM   #1
mattyjman
 
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Stereo Gurus - FARK Questions

I suppose I should have asked this long ago, but I'm looking for answers to the following questions:

I've heard the HU (2013 MYLINK Touch screen/ BA Premium) outputs a 8v "BALANCED INPUT" signal to the amp vs sending a more common unbalanced signal? Is this true? (here is a reference post explaining the difference - everything is accurate except the last line about it not existing in car audio - since 2007, it is quite common)

If so, I am wondering what the FARK 3.0 does to this signal when it turns into RCA pigtails... it looks like the kit just splices the wires. If so, am I to understand that the signal that is going to my processor and/or amps is this same 8v balanced signal?

If this is incorrect, what type of signal exactly will my amps be seeing?

I was also told that the amp needs to stay plugged in to ensure operation of the back up sensors, chimes, bluetooth, etc... I'm wondering how this is carried out exactly, as my new system is replacing ALL of the speakers in my car and/or I'll be disabling them. More specifically, I will be unplugging the center channel, removing the 6x9's, and will only be powering my new setup. At this point, what function is happening that makes the amp a necessity to keep plugged in?

Let's start here and see if this doesn't spurr any other questions.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:44 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyjman View Post
I suppose I should have asked this long ago, but I'm looking for answers to the following questions:

I've heard the HU (2013 MYLINK Touch screen/ BA Premium) outputs a 8v "BALANCED INPUT" signal to the amp vs sending a more common unbalanced signal? Is this true? (here is a reference post explaining the difference - everything is accurate except the last line about it not existing in car audio - since 2007, it is quite common)

If so, I am wondering what the FARK 3.0 does to this signal when it turns into RCA pigtails... it looks like the kit just splices the wires. If so, am I to understand that the signal that is going to my processor and/or amps is this same 8v balanced signal?

If this is incorrect, what type of signal exactly will my amps be seeing?

I was also told that the amp needs to stay plugged in to ensure operation of the back up sensors, chimes, bluetooth, etc... I'm wondering how this is carried out exactly, as my new system is replacing ALL of the speakers in my car and/or I'll be disabling them. More specifically, I will be unplugging the center channel, removing the 6x9's, and will only be powering my new setup. At this point, what function is happening that makes the amp a necessity to keep plugged in?

Let's start here and see if this doesn't spurr any other questions.
The FARK harness just splices the cables into RCA's. However, I believe that they are unbalanced as the signal is still low level.

The stock radio produces the chimes, not the amp. So for the chimes, replacing the amp is fine, but you'll need to leave the gains at or very near 0 unless you want a very loud, annoying chime. The chime frequency is around 750hz, so an EQ will make it even worse.

Bluetooth is handled by a separate module (called PDIM I think) and is unaffected by amp replacement.

Back up sensors are supposedly retained when using the FARK (my car does not have them, so I can not confirm). So it goes to reason that the stock radio is handling the back-up sensors as well.

So, in conclusion, take out that stock amp and kill it with fire.

Hope that helps.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:55 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by darkrider01 View Post
The FARK harness just splices the cables into RCA's. However, I believe that they are unbalanced as the signal is still low level.
this is the MOST important piece of information I am looking for... and I need to be sure.


Quote:
The stock radio produces the chimes, not the amp. So for the chimes, replacing the amp is fine, but you'll need to leave the gains at or very near 0 unless you want a very loud, annoying chime. The chime frequency is around 750hz, so an EQ will make it even worse.
there has to be a more acceptable solution than just leaving gains at zero...
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:21 AM   #4
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The amp can be replaced and nothing is affected.

The FARK harness can be used and nothing is affected (I'm using it for my sub input).

As for your specific questions, I don't know.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mattyjman View Post
this is the MOST important piece of information I am looking for... and I need to be sure.




there has to be a more acceptable solution than just leaving gains at zero...
Well, like I said, they are already low level signals, so I'm pretty sure they are unbalanced.

As for the chime volume, the only solution I found is a new head unit. The stock head unit applies the chime to the left front speaker output. I guess another solution could be sending your head unit off to be reprogrammed - check out this post by TCAudio.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #6
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Gains do not have to be at zero. I have my xd400/4 around 1/4 and it is perfect. that is why I recommend it because it is so easy to install and get great results. It is however important to pick a suitable amp that is not too powerful. Because remember that the chime sound is an amplified signal so if you stay with an amp around 60-75w (like the xd400/4) you will be fine. For those who don't heed my warning and install an amp with a 100+watts per channel, those are the guys that are getting the loud chimes because they are simply sending too much power and the chime signal itself is being amplified to extreme levels.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #7
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steve, what channel does the chime come through?

can you address the other questions in the my OP?
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:15 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure it's the drivers side door speaker that gets chimed. I don't hear anything in the rear speakers. Is this the case?
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:57 PM   #9
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thanks crash... is that the same for the back up sensors?
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by darkrider01 View Post
Well, like I said, they are already low level signals, so I'm pretty sure they are unbalanced.

As for the chime volume, the only solution I found is a new head unit. The stock head unit applies the chime to the left front speaker output. I guess another solution could be sending your head unit off to be reprogrammed - check out this post by TCAudio.
I give up - no one reads my posts . Chime comes out left front channel, you can have your head unit reprogrammed to lower the chime volume.

Best of luck.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:10 PM   #11
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Who offers the reprogram service? I was planning on taking the rear L/R signal as an input into my audio processor, so it would take the chimes out of my car to avoid the issue entirely, but I didn't realize there was someone doing this as a service.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:03 PM   #12
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I give up - no one reads my posts . Chime comes out left front channel, you can have your head unit reprogrammed to lower the chime volume.

Best of luck.
well, if that's the case, the easiest solution is to not use the front outputs, and use the rear instead. if you have 4 channel, just use the pass through on your amp, or use pigtails to give you the other set of channels. there isn't anything unique about the front vs rear...
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:04 PM   #13
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so, i'm still curious about a definitive answer about the outputs (STEVE from Subthump, you should know this since you have an adapter and all...)

and the back up audio, if thats the rear or the front.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:41 AM   #14
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so, i'm still curious about a definitive answer about the outputs (STEVE from Subthump, you should know this since you have an adapter and all...)

and the back up audio, if thats the rear or the front.
Back up audio comes through the rear speakers.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:11 PM   #15
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bump for an answer on balanced or unbalanced.
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:36 PM   #16
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Installed my NX4 using just the FARK 3.0 kit and a 4GAU wiring kit. No problems with loud chimes or anything. Tested it at both 2ohm and 4ohm as I ran the stock BA speakers for a day or so. Currently have Pioneers in which are 4ohm, system sounds great.

NX4 says it pumps out 100W x 4 channels at 4ohm. Not having any problems.
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:46 PM   #17
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well, I finally got an answer to my question from Steve through PM... :

my question:

Quote:
I've heard the HU (2013 MYLINK Touch screen/ BA Premium) outputs a 8v "BALANCED INPUT" signal to the amp vs sending a more common unbalanced signal? Is this true? (here is a reference post explaining the difference - everything is accurate except the last line about it not existing in car audio - since 2007, it is quite common)
and the answer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@Subthump
Whatever comes out of the radio.

Now, I'm not sure if this is said tongue and cheek, or sarcastic, or if he really doesn't know, but is this the level of service that other people have gotten from him? I'm really surprised at how unhelpful this answer was, as well as how little importance is put on something critical.

i know from reading on the forums that many people have reported noise issues for various reasons, and there are some amps that work better with the fark kit, than others.... and this could be the very answer. This is what I'm trying to determine before I wrap up my install, and this level of service is what I get.

Can anyone else clear up this issue for me, or am I better off getting a RTA and O-Scope and figuring it out myself?
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:09 PM   #18
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I would call Todd at TC Audio and discuss your concerns with him. One of his design goals in his car was to retain the factory HU. I don't really think Steve@Subthump is really into the critical listening side of car audio, so it sounds like your question might have confused him a bit.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:28 PM   #19
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I have the o-scope, but I don't have the radio installed any longer. Why exactly is it so critical for you to have one or the other? Noise?

Also, calling TCAudio would probably get you the most information.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:00 PM   #20
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I would call Todd at TC Audio and discuss your concerns with him. One of his design goals in his car was to retain the factory HU. I don't really think Steve@Subthump is really into the critical listening side of car audio, so it sounds like your question might have confused him a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkrider01 View Post
I have the o-scope, but I don't have the radio installed any longer. Why exactly is it so critical for you to have one or the other? Noise?

Also, calling TCAudio would probably get you the most information.
thanks for the suggestions guys... I'll look into that.

As to why this is important... I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet actually, and if it did, I totally missed it.

First, I'm putting a lot of time and money into the system, and I want to make sure everything works in pristine order. I have over 3500 in just the amps alone. I'm not installing some rockwood knock off brand.

I'm putting in nice gear... sure. But I still don't get it.

So, the question is are the outputs "balanced" or "unbalanced". How many people on here have mentioned noise issues, complications with something noise related after using the fark kit? I've read numerous examples, and now you get people on here recommending certain amps, because others cause issues. The only reason why a certain amp would cause issues in an install (at least noise related - and not relating to FM radio frequencies and the such) is because it doesn't like the signal it's getting, OR it was installed SUPER poorly.

Assuming people buying an amp that is a few hundred dollars find out how to install them correctly, that only leaves the other alternative. Which get's back to my question, balanced or unbalanced.

Unbalanced is the traditional rca... it sends signal through the middle wire, and the outer wire is ground. This is how most amps are built to take a signal. Assuming that the signal is powered enough, even the cheapest of amps built correctly shouldn't have an issue with a correct install, in any car, or with any unbalanced adapter.

Balanced signal is where the positive and negative signals travel in each wire... doing this actually cancels any noise an rca can pick up due to power wire, interference, etc. This is not commonly supported in amps, but some do and/or have the capability to accept the signal with no setting changes required from the end user.

Being that not all amps will accept the balanced signal, it seems plausible that this is the type of signal that we get from the fark kit, and why only some amps seem to work with the kit.

Particularly in my case, my processor - Audison BitOne- doesn't really do well with balanced signal, which will throw a wrench in my install and gear lineup. And with the horns that I'm installing (very very very sensitive) any noise that comes through the amps will be amplified, and even the littlest bit will annoy me.

I could be totally wrong here. I'm making a big assumption as to why some amps work and some don't. But there are only a few logical alternatives.

A simple question, not such a simple answer. Based on this question though, I think a lot of people would be very interested in the response to the question at hand... it would at least allow us to pick the right equipment to go with our installs.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:28 PM   #21
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I think you have totally misunderstood the issue that some amps have and some amps do not have with the stock head unit. It's not a noise issue - the issue is how and when the stock head unit terminates it audio output versus when it terminates its remote output. I have a very lengthy thread linked in my signature that addresses that issue. The whole time you have been talking about the unbalanced versus balanced output I've been wondering if the BitOne would keep you from having the turn-off pop that I (and several others) had. I really think that the turn-off pop is related to amplifier topology. I think that the Class A/B amps have issues whereas Class D do not. I'm interested to see if your amps have the pop. I believe all of the amps that people say don't have the pop are all full range Class D. I know those Mosconi's are Class A/B and Class A.

I don't remember anyone complaining specifically about any of the amps having hiss or other noise floor related issues.

I don't know - you might be lucky and the new MyLink heads might be completely different than the older style, but I doubt it (the brain units appear to be identical).

I don't understand keeping the stock head unit if you're this concerned with your signal path. Why not replace the MyLink with a nice shiny Pioneer DEX-P99RS or a McIntosh MX406? Either of those head units would look super sexy in the Camaro (at least IMO). I really wanted to keep my stock head unit originally as well, but in the end, it really wasn't worth it.

I really wish you the best on this endeavor. I'd love to hear the finished product some day.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:18 AM   #22
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maybe I'm misread everything... I'll look through your post to see what's really going on. Did you ever try a relay?
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:25 AM   #23
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Yeah, I tried a relay but the factory radio didn't produce enough current to actuate it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:35 AM   #24
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even with a 12v constant? that's wierd...
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:57 AM   #25
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even with a 12v constant? that's wierd...
It all goes back to how the stock amp operates. When the head unit terminates its output, it actually sends a mute signal to the amp. Now this is pure speculation as I have not opened up the stock amp, but I believe that the stock amp internally disconnects the ouputs on signal from the mute. The remote wire continues to stay powered on for several minutes after the key is removed, etc.

So my idea was to use the mute signal to break the remote connection by using a NC relay. The mute signal is around 6V, so I picked up a micro relay from "The Shack" to perform this function. Unfortunately, the mute output only provides 1.9mA of the needed 56ma required to operate the relay.
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