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Old 01-12-2015, 10:53 PM   #1
Zhaoyu Chen
 
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Brake Pads or Brake Lines?

Hi I am thinking about bring the car to the track more often when it gets warmer. I currently have 15k miles on my car and I am thinking about first upgrade the brakes so that I do not run into any safety issue on the track. Due to my limited budget, I may not be able to upgrade pads and lines at the same time. Any suggestions about which one to choose to do first? Pads or lines? My primary purpose is to make sure that the brakes will endure hard use and perform consistently on the track.

Also, please give some recommendations about the brands for pads and lines. I have heard that HP Plus pads are good and G-Force lines are good. Any real user of those want to share your experiences?

Thanks a lot guys.
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Old 01-13-2015, 06:50 AM   #2
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Stock pads are superior on the track to any of the hawk garbage below the dtc-60 level and fairly quiet with good temp range. Get the stainless lines and motul rbf600 fluid. Hp+ had good bite but lack the temp range. Dtc-30 were crap all around.
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:46 AM   #3
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I second the lines and dot4 fluid. Stock pads are pretty good.
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Old 01-13-2015, 12:14 PM   #4
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I second the lines and dot4 fluid. Stock pads are pretty good.
Thanks a lot for the info! I thought after market pads would be better and it seemed I was wrong...do you know how to order stock pads? Are they just brembo or other brand?
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:37 PM   #5
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It sounds like your new to HPDE/track, so you probably won't be in much danger of out running your brake stock brake pads. I have heard also that the stock pads do pretty well on the track. I wouldn't worry about stainless lines either, the factory lines will be fine assuming their in good shape.

Aftermarket pads are better if you buy high end ones, but you will be looking at a pretty big chunk of change for some Carbotechs or DTC60s, etc, your better off spending that money on seat time for now.

I would however swap out your brake fluid with some fresh good fluid, ATE Typ 200 is good and lots of people use it, plus it's quite cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/ATE-706202-Ori...ywords=ATE+200

As far as OEM pads check out this thread: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379881

Being a 2013 do you really need new pads already? If yours have plenty of pad left then you shouldn't need to buy any.

The stock pads are actually made by Ferodo and are their HP1000 pads, but their made for Brembo and sold under their name, the thread above has the ACDelco part numbers though which should be the same OEM pad.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:31 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Zhaoyu Chen View Post
Thanks a lot for the info! I thought after market pads would be better and it seemed I was wrong...do you know how to order stock pads? Are they just brembo or other brand?
"better" means different things to different people. Most on here care about dusting or noise not high performance in a track setting. Cobalt Friction XR1/XR3 have been amazing but you pay for it. It is a Ferrodo pad that you can get with GM or an AC Delco part number. Just be aware that AC Delco also has part numbers for a aftermarket pad that isn't nearly as good as well so ensure its the OE pad material.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
"better" means different things to different people. Most on here care about dusting or noise not high performance in a track setting. Cobalt Friction XR1/XR3 have been amazing but you pay for it. It is a Ferrodo pad that you can get with GM or an AC Delco part number. Just be aware that AC Delco also has part numbers for a aftermarket pad that isn't nearly as good as well so ensure its the OE pad material.
Yep, the thread I posted should have the proper part numbers for the true OE pad.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Destructo09 View Post
It sounds like your new to HPDE/track, so you probably won't be in much danger of out running your brake stock brake pads. I have heard also that the stock pads do pretty well on the track. I wouldn't worry about stainless lines either, the factory lines will be fine assuming their in good shape.

Aftermarket pads are better if you buy high end ones, but you will be looking at a pretty big chunk of change for some Carbotechs or DTC60s, etc, your better off spending that money on seat time for now.

I would however swap out your brake fluid with some fresh good fluid, ATE Typ 200 is good and lots of people use it, plus it's quite cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/ATE-706202-Ori...ywords=ATE+200

As far as OEM pads check out this thread: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379881

Being a 2013 do you really need new pads already? If yours have plenty of pad left then you shouldn't need to buy any.

The stock pads are actually made by Ferodo and are their HP1000 pads, but their made for Brembo and sold under their name, the thread above has the ACDelco part numbers though which should be the same OEM pad.
Thanks for the post. I am not worried about the pads now but probably will do in the future. So I am just being proactive here. I will first replace the fluid and see how everything goes on the track. You are right I have plenty of pads left both front and rear!
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Zhaoyu Chen View Post
Thanks for the post. I am not worried about the pads now but probably will do in the future. So I am just being proactive here. I will first replace the fluid and see how everything goes on the track. You are right I have plenty of pads left both front and rear!
I would just do the fluid then and focus on the seat time and have fun.

Just in case though, be aware of brake fade, you should be able to ask your instructor for advice on what to look out for in regards to brake fade.
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:27 PM   #10
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Oh, he will understand when the brakes start to fade..

If you ever need to pump the brakes, be aware that next lap it might need more pumps, or the pedal may just go all the way down, which might quickly get catastrophic.

Anyhow, you'll feel it very clearly; just don't ignore the feedback from your brake pedal, and check it out (back-to-back braking) if you feel any difference in pedal movements.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:47 PM   #11
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I suggest starting out with lines and fluid. I recommend Motul RBF600 and the Goodridge lines part # 12219.

Feel free to call, PM or email me anytime with questions.

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Old 01-17-2015, 04:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
"better" means different things to different people. Most on here care about dusting or noise not high performance in a track setting. Cobalt Friction XR1/XR3 have been amazing but you pay for it. It is a Ferrodo pad that you can get with GM or an AC Delco part number. Just be aware that AC Delco also has part numbers for a aftermarket pad that isn't nearly as good as well so ensure its the OE pad material.
It's possibly not the pad's fault, but ironically, the XR1s were the only pads with which I had brake fade even after the brake ducting, after a long (45 minutes) session. I did not have fade with ST43s when I had a similarly long session the week before that (with ducts again), but I still can't put the whole blame on pads since I only bled the brakes very briefly, which might have been the cause. This was the mean reason why I ended up installing a BBK, too.
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Old 01-17-2015, 05:23 AM   #13
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Only done up to 30 min sessions but they've been flawless and I'm incredibly tough on brakes.
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Old 01-17-2015, 05:49 AM   #14
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This was when the pedal went down half way with no stopping:
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Old 01-17-2015, 06:49 AM   #15
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Tough to definitively nail down the issue. Hydraulic anything on these cars is fickle because they're such porkers.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhaoyu Chen View Post
Hi I am thinking about bring the car to the track more often when it gets warmer. I currently have 15k miles on my car and I am thinking about first upgrade the brakes so that I do not run into any safety issue on the track. Due to my limited budget, I may not be able to upgrade pads and lines at the same time. Any suggestions about which one to choose to do first? Pads or lines? My primary purpose is to make sure that the brakes will endure hard use and perform consistently on the track.

Also, please give some recommendations about the brands for pads and lines. I have heard that HP Plus pads are good and G-Force lines are good. Any real user of those want to share your experiences?

Thanks a lot guys.
Stock pads ,please. Goodrich lines, Motul 600 and even the 9012 blue or the new Race pads from hawk are good, better than stock. But yes when you get the SS lines in with Motul 600 the stock pads will stop better than stock lines. I had no issues with brake fade at all with the 9012s even when almost running off the track. Also note if you are stopping from 130mph range it is different than 100 mph. Personally I would never skimp on safety on the track and wouldn't recommend running high end fluids in stock lines.
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:26 AM   #17
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There's nothing unsafe about stock lines but they don't remain as consistently firm in regards to pedal pressure as they get hot and expand. I suppose some might consider that alteration less safe due to consistency but I never felt it suddenly change, more of a gradual softening and it will not lead to brake failure like boiled fluid or pads that suddenly crapped out from excessive heat. Fluid/pad failure can be very sudden and dangerous but not line expansion. If you drive the car at 10/10ths and to within an inch of your brakes capabilities every lap then yeah you will have issues but hopefully people aren't at HPDE events.
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:57 AM   #18
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Fluid/pad failure can be very sudden and dangerous but not line expansion.
This ↑↑↑


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Old 01-20-2015, 09:12 AM   #19
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I'd be more nervous about putting some aftermarket stainless lines on my car than using the OEM lines.

I have no idea how well the aftermarkets are made and i've NEVER heard anyone say their OEM lines ruptured. I have heard from my club members about aftermarket stainless lines coming apart, so most of them run OEM style lines. This is even for dedicated track cars.

I would leave the brake lines alone, the OEM pads should be ok, but make sure to put fresh good fluid in, you don't need to use Motul, it's way too expensive, the ATE 200 is much cheaper and works fine, also if you start tracking often, you'll want fluid that's at least within 90 days fresh, so it gets expensive changing Motul 600 3 times a year.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:34 AM   #20
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ATE is a good fluid for introductory time - I used it for my first few events, but if you're getting things hot enough to turn it black you're probably past the time you should have stepped up to something a little better. You won't know whether you stayed 50° below the fluid's boiling point or got within 10° of it.

I do a brake bleed for each event, whatever it takes for the fluid to start coming out clear. I can get a two day weekend out of this regimen, but I won't go two separate events on one bleeding session. FWIW, better pads seem to do a better job of reducing heat transfer into the fluid, as my fluid hasn't been as dark after swapping XP8's out for XP10's. And with regular bleeding, you don't necessarily have to do a full flush each time. I'm using about 2/3 of a $20 bottle per event, maybe a whole bottle following a 2-day affair.


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Old 01-20-2015, 04:43 PM   #21
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ATE is a good fluid for introductory time - I used it for my first few events, but if you're getting things hot enough to turn it black you're probably past the time you should have stepped up to something a little better. You won't know whether you stayed 50° below the fluid's boiling point or got within 10° of it.

I do a brake bleed for each event, whatever it takes for the fluid to start coming out clear. I can get a two day weekend out of this regimen, but I won't go two separate events on one bleeding session. FWIW, better pads seem to do a better job of reducing heat transfer into the fluid, as my fluid hasn't been as dark after swapping XP8's out for XP10's. And with regular bleeding, you don't necessarily have to do a full flush each time. I'm using about 2/3 of a $20 bottle per event, maybe a whole bottle following a 2-day affair.


Norm

Lots of guys in my club use ATE for dedicated track cars, and they're fast drivers. This is mostly in much lighter cars though, but they're also running slicks. Obviously the Camaro is much heavier so I supposed that is a factor.
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