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Old 05-11-2013, 07:55 PM   #1
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Pad Priming Discussion

Let's discuss some pad priming and what methods people use.

I personally subscribe to the Kevin Brown Method. This method is to completely cover the pad with polish and then add 3 drops of polish to start and then further as needed. Also, no detail spray on the pad is recommended.

In fact, there is a huge shift in the industry towards this method.

Mike Phillips (the face of Autogeek IE Blackfire, Pinnacle, Detailer's Pro, Diamondite, and other brands are all owned by Autogeek) and Meguiar's now also recommend this method.

And those are the only the ones I know of. I'm sure there are others.

The reason I subscribe to this method is the science behind it. For the first time, the science behind pad priming is clearly explained and the effects of those results are explained as well.

If you would like to read them, here is his link: http://www.buffdaddy.com/files/15195...g_Agents-1.pdf

Now this isn't to say other methods don't work, just that they can be improved upon.


So what method do you guys use and why?
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:38 PM   #2
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I like the KB method, although I do debate whether you need additional product before starting on the first pass. I like priming it by spreading it over the pad by hand then ensuring full coverage by using a 1 speed or so to spread the product to any missed areas. But I think that it's extremely difficult to use enough product to cover the pad, for it to soak in, and not have excess product in the pad.

Do you think MF pads should be primed the same way?
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #3
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:14 PM   #4
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I didn't know it was called the Kevin Brown method, but that's what I do as well. Never really subscribed to the Adam's method.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:15 PM   #5
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I like the KB method, although I do debate whether you need additional product before starting on the first pass. I like priming it by spreading it over the pad by hand then ensuring full coverage by using a 1 speed or so to spread the product to any missed areas. But I think that it's extremely difficult to use enough product to cover the pad, for it to soak in, and not have excess product in the pad.

Do you think MF pads should be primed the same way?
Yes, go ahead and get some polish worked into your MF. I go pretty heavy and work it in with my fingers for the first section, then just a spray or two of Optimum Hyper for each subsequent section.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #6
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Yeah the first time I used it I got quite a bit of dust and I think it may have been a cause.

BTW what do you think of LC MF pads? They don't split up compounding and finishing MF pads, but I also heard the difference is purely the foam structure in them for Megs/Optimum ones.

But I do think priming is different for foam/MF pads just because you can overprime a MF pad where the the pad lays flat whereas you don't have to worry about that for foam pads.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:39 AM   #7
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Whether it works or not, it seems like a lot is going to waste, especially if you're cleaning your pad after every panel. If I was any of those companies, i'd be telling my customers use more product as well, whether it's needed or not. I definitely use more than what JM shows you in his vids but no where near the amount that the OP uses.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #8
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Whether it works or not, it seems like a lot is going to waste, especially if you're cleaning your pad after every panel. If I was any of those companies, i'd be telling my customers use more product as well, whether it's needed or not. I definitely use more than what JM shows you in his vids but no where near the amount that the OP uses.
Did you read the link? It's not wasting if you are getting more efficient polishing is it?
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:26 AM   #9
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Did you read the link? It's not wasting if you are getting more efficient polishing is it?
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:19 AM   #10
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How much do you guys really use? I have done 4 full PC's on my car since I got it and I still have more than 1/2 bottle left of all my Products, at this rate it will take four years to use it all, as far as effectiveness I have used Adams method and the KB method, didn't really notice a difference, they both worked just fine.
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:48 PM   #11
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Did you read the link? It's not wasting if you are getting more efficient polishing is it?
Still not convinced. Sorry, but I agree it's a waste of product, especially if your cleaning the pad every time. To me using this method over primes the pad and will only lead to a lot dust which equals more clean up time.

Just my opinion though. Certainly not the definitive answer.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:10 AM   #12
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Did you read the link? It's not wasting if you are getting more efficient polishing is it?
Are you really getting more efficient polishing if you're completely saturating your pad, only to wipe half of it off after the first panel? Why would that be more efficient over priming the "old way" then wiping it off after every panel? Do you completely resaturate the pad after every panel?

I didn't read every word of that article but he said "my opinion" enough for me to come to the conclusion that most of this was indeed just his opinion. Whether it's sound or not, I didn't see much real scientific data here.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:50 AM   #13
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It's definitely opinion. I happen to agree with priming (NOT to be confused with saturating) a pad with polish prior to beginning. You do this once per pad, not after each panel. Once the pad is primed, it's primed.

I spray a few extra pumps of my Optimum polish on my clean optimum MF disc and massage it into the fibers. Then I give it a pump or two of polish for the first section.

With foam I spread a generous amount onto the pad and work it in. Then I apply my 3-4 dots and attack the first section.

I agree with quite a bit in the KB article, although it is just opinion we happen to share.

This isn't a junkman thread, so we can agree there is more than one way to get results. This is just one way that happens to work for Roshan, KB, and myself. And I guarantee you that even within this same school of thought, we all do it slightly differently.

Nobody is right or wrong as long as results are achieved, IMO. However, some of your posts indicate you did not read the article, because you're attributing things to this method that are specifically cautioned against within the text.

This article should be required reading for any paint polisher. Whether you agree or disagree at the end is inconsequential, the point is to get you thinking about what's going on rather than just hammering away with your machine and hoping for the best.

Now everyone give my thumbs a round of applause for tapping all this shit out on my phone.

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Old 05-13-2013, 05:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07 View Post
It's definitely opinion. I happen to agree with priming (NOT to be confused with saturating) a pad with polish prior to beginning. You do this once per pad, not after each panel. Once the pad is primed, it's primed.

I spray a few extra pumps of my Optimum polish on my clean optimum MF disc and massage it into the fibers. Then I give it a pump or two of polish for the first section.

With foam I spread a generous amount onto the pad and work it in. Then I apply my 3-4 dots and attack the first section.

I agree with quite a bit in the KB article, although it is just opinion we happen to share.

This isn't a junkman thread, so we can agree there is more than one way to get results. This is just one way that happens to work for Roshan, KB, and myself. And I guarantee you that even within this same school of thought, we all do it slightly differently.

Nobody is right or wrong as long as results are achieved, IMO. However, some of your posts indicate you did not read the article, because you're attributing things to this method that are specifically cautioned against within the text.

This article should be required reading for any paint polisher. Whether you agree or disagree at the end is inconsequential, the point is to get you thinking about what's going on rather than just hammering away with your machine and hoping for the best.

Now everyone give my thumbs a round of applause for tapping all this shit out on my phone.

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That good?
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07 View Post
It's definitely opinion. I happen to agree with priming (NOT to be confused with saturating) a pad with polish prior to beginning. You do this once per pad, not after each panel. Once the pad is primed, it's primed.

I spray a few extra pumps of my Optimum polish on my clean optimum MF disc and massage it into the fibers. Then I give it a pump or two of polish for the first section.

With foam I spread a generous amount onto the pad and work it in. Then I apply my 3-4 dots and attack the first section.

I agree with quite a bit in the KB article, although it is just opinion we happen to share.

This isn't a junkman thread, so we can agree there is more than one way to get results. This is just one way that happens to work for Roshan, KB, and myself. And I guarantee you that even within this same school of thought, we all do it slightly differently.

Nobody is right or wrong as long as results are achieved, IMO. However, some of your posts indicate you did not read the article, because you're attributing things to this method that are specifically cautioned against within the text.

This article should be required reading for any paint polisher. Whether you agree or disagree at the end is inconsequential, the point is to get you thinking about what's going on rather than just hammering away with your machine and hoping for the best.

Now everyone give my thumbs a round of applause for tapping all this shit out on my phone.

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Give it up for the thumbs!
I also use the KB method with great results.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07 View Post
It's definitely opinion. I happen to agree with priming (NOT to be confused with saturating) a pad with polish prior to beginning. You do this once per pad, not after each panel. Once the pad is primed, it's primed.

I spray a few extra pumps of my Optimum polish on my clean optimum MF disc and massage it into the fibers. Then I give it a pump or two of polish for the first section.

With foam I spread a generous amount onto the pad and work it in. Then I apply my 3-4 dots and attack the first section.

I agree with quite a bit in the KB article, although it is just opinion we happen to share.

This isn't a junkman thread, so we can agree there is more than one way to get results. This is just one way that happens to work for Roshan, KB, and myself. And I guarantee you that even within this same school of thought, we all do it slightly differently.

Nobody is right or wrong as long as results are achieved, IMO. However, some of your posts indicate you did not read the article, because you're attributing things to this method that are specifically cautioned against within the text.

This article should be required reading for any paint polisher. Whether you agree or disagree at the end is inconsequential, the point is to get you thinking about what's going on rather than just hammering away with your machine and hoping for the best.

Now everyone give my thumbs a round of applause for tapping all this shit out on my phone.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
What I got out of it was to make sure your pad is evenly primed, you clean it out often, and use a wetting agent when needed. With the exception of cleaning the pad, this is nothing new. He just has a different theory and approach to priming the pad. It does in fact waste a lot of product which would make all the manufacturers happy. More product used for the same job means you'll have to replace it more often. Either way, we're all in the same place after a couple panels. I can understand his theory behind it though. Like you said, it's just another way of doing it. In the end, do what works for you and you're comfortably with.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:09 AM   #17
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That good?


Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro2ssblack View Post
Give it up for the thumbs!
I also use the KB method with great results.
Thank you, that'll do just fine

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07 View Post
It's definitely opinion. I happen to agree with priming (NOT to be confused with saturating) a pad with polish prior to beginning. You do this once per pad, not after each panel. Once the pad is primed, it's primed.

I spray a few extra pumps of my Optimum polish on my clean optimum MF disc and massage it into the fibers. Then I give it a pump or two of polish for the first section.

With foam I spread a generous amount onto the pad and work it in. Then I apply my 3-4 dots and attack the first section.

I agree with quite a bit in the KB article, although it is just opinion we happen to share.

This isn't a junkman thread, so we can agree there is more than one way to get results. This is just one way that happens to work for Roshan, KB, and myself. And I guarantee you that even within this same school of thought, we all do it slightly differently.

Nobody is right or wrong as long as results are achieved, IMO. However, some of your posts indicate you did not read the article, because you're attributing things to this method that are specifically cautioned against within the text.

This article should be required reading for any paint polisher. Whether you agree or disagree at the end is inconsequential, the point is to get you thinking about what's going on rather than just hammering away with your machine and hoping for the best.

Now everyone give my thumbs a round of applause for tapping all this shit out on my phone.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I tend to agree with most of your opinions, but man this post is perfectly spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself. Here's a trophy for those thumbs
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:59 AM   #19
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What I got out of it was to make sure your pad is evenly primed, you clean it out often, and use a wetting agent when needed. With the exception of cleaning the pad, this is nothing new. He just has a different theory and approach to priming the pad. It does in fact waste a lot of product which would make all the manufacturers happy. More product used for the same job means you'll have to replace it more often. Either way, we're all in the same place after a couple panels. I can understand his theory behind it though. Like you said, it's just another way of doing it. In the end, do what works for you and you're comfortably with.
He specifically says detail spray hinders the pad performance, but yeah I agree if you're happy with your results and system then more power to you. The whole point of this thread was to talk about the different ways of priming a pad people use; disagreements will naturally occur
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:36 PM   #20
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He specifically says detail spray hinders the pad performance, but yeah I agree if you're happy with your results and system then more power to you. The whole point of this thread was to talk about the different ways of priming a pad people use; disagreements will naturally occur
To a point, but I think if we can agree on the high level goals that need to be achieve and their order of priority to substantiate the (friendly) argument mine would be as follows:

• Paint correction / evening out the clear coat to reduce / remove imperfections
• Using proper tools & products to acheive proper results
• Most Cost effective way to achieve proper results

I'm hung up because of the last bullet point. If it just wastes a bunch of product then it's not satisfying that last goal (thrifty verse fifty if you will ) and therefore not adding up as valid argument to use that technique.

In the end, if it works for you and you don't care about wasting the product (which equals money IMO) then have it if the results are the same.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:10 PM   #21
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To a point, but I think if we can agree on the high level goals that need to be achieve and their order of priority to substantiate the (friendly) argument mine would be as follows:

• Paint correction / evening out the clear coat to reduce / remove imperfections
• Using proper tools & products to acheive proper results
• Most Cost effective way to achieve proper results

I'm hung up because of the last bullet point. If it just wastes a bunch of product then it's not satisfying that last goal (thrifty verse fifty if you will ) and therefore not adding up as valid argument to use that technique.

In the end, if it works for you and you don't care about wasting the product (which equals money IMO) then have it if the results are the same.
See you keep thinking of it as wasting product whereas I don't. In my mind, people who aren't priming their pads correctly (cough cough ) are running at less efficiency rather than full efficiency. It's like having eight cylinders and only using four.

And I've done both methods, the level of product on the pad after an entire detailing session using detail spray and a few drops of polish per section even by the end never reaches the amount of usable product on the pad doing the Kb method.

SoI don't consider it wasting, just more efficient polishing.

These are from my observations although I have never directly compared the two side by side, but I think doing that will be in order. As is my tendency, I might just make a video of it...
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:22 PM   #22
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I'm all psyching myself out already about polishing the car myself BEFORE reading this. Now that has blown right into full on polish anxiety of trying this lol
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:45 PM   #23
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In my mind, people who aren't priming their pads correctly (cough cough ) are running at less efficiency rather than full efficiency. It's like having eight cylinders and only using four.
That one made me chuckle Roshan.

To clarify, my pad is primed (best way I can describe it feels wet, but not drippy through the whole pad with polish and DS) then I'll work the polish out of the pad.

I'd be willing to throw down that it's likely a matter of semantics and at the of end job we're both using about the same amount of polish. It's just when we're putting the polish into the pad that we differ so we're probably splitting hairs.

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I'm all psyching myself out already about polishing the car myself BEFORE reading this. Now that has blown right into full on polish anxiety of trying this lol
Forte, I hope this doesn't discourage you from taking this on. This is a fun hobby for most of us who are just REALLY into rubbing on our cars. I'll say this for sure, I have mad respect for both Roshan and Matt and anything they recommend will never hurt your car and in fact, will make it look damn good if you follow their advice.

The forum allows us to exchange these ideas and opinions and hopefully at the end of the day we do it respectfully and offer alternatives for those interested enough in reading our rants.

We're here for you so if you have questions, we'll back it up so it helps ease that anxiety, but don't be afraid. I don't want to speak for those guys, but I'd be willing to bet we'd all throw our opinions to the side to help you work through that anxiety instead of splitting these hairs. :o)
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:53 PM   #24
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Oh I've taken so much advice from all of you on this forum, and Matt one time even PM'd me a very thorough detailed step by step process on everything I asked about. I have started to do everything detail related except for the paint correction processes.

I know I will end up doing it one day soon enough, I'm just the kind of person that wants to typically see someone do it firsthand then take a stab at it myself when it comes to something like this. Typically, I have what I think is everything worked out then some small detail no one speaks about comes up and I end up breaking something that costs me a lot of money lol.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:54 PM   #25
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He specifically says detail spray hinders the pad performance, but yeah I agree if you're happy with your results and system then more power to you. The whole point of this thread was to talk about the different ways of priming a pad people use; disagreements will naturally occur
Not necessarily. He mentioned that it "could" encapsulate the compound granules but there's no real data to support that theory, just his opinion. Other parts of his post mention that he uses DS mixed 1:1 with distilled water. I'm honestly not trying to cause a argument, just trying to get the point of this, which I think I have.
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