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Old 05-15-2013, 12:51 PM   #1
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Tuning required?

2012 2SS L99

Deleted mufflers
Installed CAI
Going to install air scoop/washer relocate this weekend.
Running 93 octane
Did fuse pull

After installing the CAI, totally changed the sound and can fell the difference in overall get up and go...
But, sometimes when I get on it there is serious lag in throttle response, Like its choking down.

Do I need a tune?
Suggestions?
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:33 PM   #2
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A ported throttle body should clean that up some.

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Old 05-15-2013, 01:37 PM   #3
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And the active fuel management could be causing it to. Check out this thread http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283175
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:10 PM   #4
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Thanks.

I didn't think about the AFM.
AFM is very annoying.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:35 PM   #5
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A good custom calibration will sure wake it up, and it will be much more responsive as well. Let me know if I can help you in any way or if you have any questions.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSlacker View Post
2012 2SS L99

Deleted mufflers
Installed CAI
Going to install air scoop/washer relocate this weekend.
Running 93 octane
Did fuse pull

After installing the CAI, totally changed the sound and can fell the difference in overall get up and go...
But, sometimes when I get on it there is serious lag in throttle response, Like its choking down.

Do I need a tune?
Suggestions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino79 View Post
A good custom calibration will sure wake it up, and it will be much more responsive as well. Let me know if I can help you in any way or if you have any questions.
I have only seen a few people with tunes from Rhino so far... all have been very happy. What I have seen out of Rhino in the past has been mostly next level knowledge (stuff you wouldn't know otherwise essentially) about automatic transmissions and engine electronics. If you're not worried about warranty get the tune. I didn't notice much from the ported throttle body.

Exhibit A. First pic is pre-tune LTFT vs. RPM. Second pic is post-tune LTFT vs. RPM. This is the kind of "tuning" that makes your car feel like it is supposed to. Look how out of whack and random the trims are on the stock tune. Right there in the middle it gets faked out by me letting off the gas due to loss of traction , then when I get back on it... the trims are just all over the place. Mine used to do a weird misfire if I punched it with traction control on. Example after example of your car's brain not being able to cope with certain scenarios.

::EDIT:: If I would have highlighted knock retard, you would see that the stock tune was full of it. It was hard to make sense of. Everything just seemed random.

My mods pre-tune were intake + ported throttle body + catback.
My mods post-tune were intake + ported throttle body + headers + catback.

Name:  pre-tune.jpg
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Name:  post-tune.jpg
Views: 436
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:52 AM   #7
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:50 AM   #8
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I have a feeling I'm reading too much into those previous graphs. Someone will straighten me out .

Maybe these would be more relevant to what the OP is looking for. Throttle position vs. RPM.

Pre-tune.

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Post-tune

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Old 05-16-2013, 10:29 AM   #9
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I would wait until you are ready to add power adders.. headers/cam/sc whatever your poison... Tune is not needed at this level... What you have are "complimentary" mods, not really standalone.

If you care less about your warranty then absolutely, tune it and you will see much better performance top to bottom (shifting/throttle response/power etc..).

As someone else had mentioned, a "Ported Throttle Body" would assist in cleaning up your throttle response some and for the money its worth it. Let me know if you are interested as we have some on the shelf ready to go. Or just go to the website in my sig

If you are interested in a tune though hit me up, we have one of the best tuners around-Matt Sorian (Matt@FSP).
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:05 PM   #10
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Next Friday I will have, as will other members, some before and after tune dyno numbers. I have about 4-5 cars Im travelling to do and Ill be sure to post some numbers and mods for each setup. No better way to show the value of a good calibration than to post before and after graphs. Some vehicles already have some calibration work done, which will be even better to show the difference between different calibrations.

Tuning is not always a must, but even in stock form, there is power to be had. As you mod up, even with just bolt ons, the gains will grow more.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:20 PM   #11
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Not uncommon for an L99 to get 1-2 tenths improvement in ET just from a tune. Plus you can turn off AFM, and you can speed up the paddle shifter response time. I'd suggest Rhino (Ryan), he's been L99'n for a long time and knows what he's doing.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSlacker View Post
Thanks.

I didn't think about the AFM.
AFM is very annoying.

It becomes more evident when you change the exhaust tone.

Mechanically, the car has to think about meeting thresholds, getting out of AFM, and fining the proper gear is what is causing your lag time.

After calibration, the car responds much better and if done properly with a wideband, it will hit your commanded target AFR and not knock.

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Old 05-21-2013, 12:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thahemp View Post
I have only seen a few people with tunes from Rhino so far... all have been very happy. What I have seen out of Rhino in the past has been mostly next level knowledge (stuff you wouldn't know otherwise essentially) about automatic transmissions and engine electronics. If you're not worried about warranty get the tune. I didn't notice much from the ported throttle body.

Exhibit A. First pic is pre-tune LTFT vs. RPM. Second pic is post-tune LTFT vs. RPM. This is the kind of "tuning" that makes your car feel like it is supposed to. Look how out of whack and random the trims are on the stock tune. Right there in the middle it gets faked out by me letting off the gas due to loss of traction , then when I get back on it... the trims are just all over the place. Mine used to do a weird misfire if I punched it with traction control on. Example after example of your car's brain not being able to cope with certain scenarios.

::EDIT:: If I would have highlighted knock retard, you would see that the stock tune was full of it. It was hard to make sense of. Everything just seemed random.

My mods pre-tune were intake + ported throttle body + catback.
My mods post-tune were intake + ported throttle body + headers + catback.

Attachment 510688

Attachment 510689
Your Target LTFT are 1.0 + or - .03

In the first on your too lean
In the second one your too rich.
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:30 PM   #14
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Your Target LTFT are 1.0 + or - .03

In the first on your too lean
In the second one your too rich.
Thanks Ted. Every new day of reading makes me look back at posts just a few days ago and feel silly for posting such nonsense. Even the stupid posts get me thinking and researching again though.

Should I have reset my trims and taken longer drives for you? Looking back I think I could have done a much better job of datalogging. Do you just know from experience (seeing a ton of roughly the same car/mods) about how much to bump things by looking at changes in LTFTs between datalogs?

I still need to do a log of the tune it's running now. I think I'll reset my LTFTs and take a longer drive this time. I need to start keeping that laptop in my car.
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thahemp View Post
Thanks Ted. Every new day of reading makes me look back at posts just a few days ago and feel silly for posting such nonsense. Even the stupid posts get me thinking and researching again though.

Should I have reset my trims and taken longer drives for you? Looking back I think I could have done a much better job of datalogging. Do you just know from experience (seeing a ton of roughly the same car/mods) about how much to bump things by looking at changes in LTFTs between datalogs?

I still need to do a log of the tune it's running now. I think I'll reset my LTFTs and take a longer drive this time. I need to start keeping that laptop in my car.
The Data logs are Key to a great tune, If I get what I need I Nail it every time.

Ted.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:26 PM   #16
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I logged my trip back to work (~5 minute drive). You're definitely within 1.03. It had a region at the beginning of the drive that ran around 1.06 that seemed to be correlated to the IAT. As soon as intake temps came down when I got moving, the trims really stabilized around 1.0. Nice.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:10 PM   #17
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I logged my trip back to work (~5 minute drive). You're definitely within 1.03. It had a region at the beginning of the drive that ran around 1.06 that seemed to be correlated to the IAT. As soon as intake temps came down when I got moving, the trims really stabilized around 1.0. Nice.
Bingo!
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSlacker View Post
2012 2SS L99

Deleted mufflers
Installed CAI
Going to install air scoop/washer relocate this weekend.
Running 93 octane
Did fuse pull

After installing the CAI, totally changed the sound and can fell the difference in overall get up and go...
But, sometimes when I get on it there is serious lag in throttle response, Like its choking down.

Do I need a tune?
Suggestions?
Installed the scoop...
Now it seems I have even less throttle response, less power.
What the hey??
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SSlacker View Post
Installed the scoop...
Now it seems I have even less throttle response, less power.
What the hey??
The Scoop leans out the AFR you must get a tune to take advantage of all your bolt ons.

Ted.
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:21 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SSlacker View Post
Installed the scoop...
Now it seems I have even less throttle response, less power.
What the hey??
Did you allow time for relearn? A tune is not required for any of the MODS you currently have.....

Would you car further benefit? Sure. But you DO NOT have too.
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:44 PM   #21
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If a tune is not required, what is.
Car is running worse since I installed the scoop.
Less response and overall power.
When I had just the CAI it was much better on both ends.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:52 AM   #22
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If a tune is not required, what is.
Car is running worse since I installed the scoop.
Less response and overall power.
When I had just the CAI it was much better on both ends.
A Tune.

The only way you don't is if you made a mistake in the install and left a hose off or something that is causing a leak between the MAF and TB.

Simply locating and fixing this would restore your lost power.

I have Logged the Effects of adding a Scoop to a CAI and it definitely further Leans the AFR causing Higher Fuel trims.

To correct this Fuel Trim Error you need a Custom Tune to restore your lost performance.

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Old 06-02-2013, 10:42 AM   #23
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I will check for any leaks, if no leaks I will be contacting you about a tune.
Thanks
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:12 PM   #24
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I think torque management has a lot to do with what is perceived to be lag in throttle response, but there again is the tune. it's funny cars years ago didn't have torque management, but we need it now.
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