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Old 05-22-2016, 04:15 PM   #1
Kenny Camaro


 
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CRC gdi intake valve cleaner

Since I am new to the forum, joined first week in April, I didn't know about the importance of the benefits of a catch can. This will be my next mod. Saw a commercial during a car show about this product, the CRC GAS DIRECT INJECTION INTAKE VALVE CLEANER, My car has 21,000 miles on it and have noticed less smooth acceleratation and a slight drop in gas mileage, so a bought some.Easy enough to use, after letting set for an hour as per instructions, when I started my car, I about oil smoked out my entire front yard and half of my neighbors! My question is what is the downside of this product? I understand it's better to not have to use it, but does it fowl out your plugs,eat out your cats.,damage your valve seats, mess up you rings and cylinder walls? What's the good ,bad, and the ugly? Thanks!
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Old 05-22-2016, 06:58 PM   #2
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I use Seafoam frequently in order to prevent the build up of carbon in the intake and on the valves. No need to worry about your plugs or cats. Despite the catch can scare going on in the forum, I would invest in one if I were you.
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Old 05-22-2016, 08:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy82 View Post
I use Seafoam frequently in order to prevent the build up of carbon in the intake and on the valves. No need to worry about your plugs or cats. Despite the catch can scare going on in the forum, I would invest in one if I were you.
I will be getting a catch can in future. Now I heard that the can catches only 30-40percent of the oil sent into the mani from the pvc? Is that true? No issues with the valve cleaner? Seems that after the treatment ,it seems to be having smoother acceleratation. You are using both, what interval are you using the cleaner? Thanks for the response.
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Old 05-22-2016, 08:48 PM   #4
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I was wondering about this stuff too . CRC GAS DIRECT INJECTION INTAKE VALVE CLEANER . The crap part is it takes 2 people to do this because of our electronic throttle .
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Old 05-22-2016, 08:57 PM   #5
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Best to do the treatment before an oil change. I usually Seafoam every other oil change. You can use a brick or stick to hold the accelerator at 2500rpm, that's what I do. A catch can won't stop all oil particulate from entering the intake manifold, but you will be surprised at the amount it does collect.
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy82 View Post
Best to do the treatment before an oil change. I usually Seafoam every other oil change. You can use a brick or stick to hold the accelerator at 2500rpm, that's what I do. A catch can won't stop all oil particulate from entering the intake manifold, but you will be surprised at the amount it does collect.
Thanks ,again!
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:14 PM   #7
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First, one has to understand just what occurs using a solvent based cleaner such as this (any of them). With older port injection or carbureted engines the carbon was soft, and mainly formed on the piston tops and combustion chambers. These were great as they would loosen them and allow the residue to be expelled out the exhaust. Withe a GDI engine such as the LLT/LFX/LGF and new LT1 though, the deposits are forming on the intake valves, and as no fuel sprays on the valves to keep them cool and clean, these deposits that form are severe as well as what is referred to as "hard carbon". This is a baked crystalline formation that is very hard and abrasive, so the smaller particles that come loose, some will always be forced between the piston and cylinder walls causing scouring (scratches) and enter the crankcase with some of the solvent so not only is it critical to change oil and filter immediately following use, it is almost always going to cause some engine damage on a GDI engine when used. And, if you read the disclaimers on the products web sites, "cleans up TO 40%" or so of the deposits. When used on a GDI engine with over 10-15k miles on, then you risk a large piece of the deposits coming loose and getting stuck between a valve and seat allowing piston to valve contact, and bent valves. Then where does what does come loose go? Unlike the minor "soft carbon" deposits of the past, these hard chunks can impact the hot catalytic converter causing clogging and failure of the strata inside.


The only way you can safely use these is before coking reaches an amount that is not enough to cause damage, and is used every 10k or so miles afterwards, but this does not prevent the wear occurring in the meantime to the valve guides as they are worn by the deposits carried into the guides with every cycle or stroke of the valve, and the ONLT way to safe guard against severe deposits forming on the intake valves is one of the few catchcans that trap most all of the oil and other suspended contaminants from the PCV vapors like the Elite E2 and E2-X systems. These are 90-95% effective where the average "catchcan" only traps 15-30% MAX of these. So yes, the average catchcan, no matter the brand name on it, is not going to help much at all, and although the port injection LS based V8's have no coking issues, the GDI V6 and new GDI V8's cannot tolerate even small amounts of ingestion.


Here are some pictures. Bent valve when chuck broke loose during dealer BG upper induction cleaning service: (dealer refused to cover repairs and insisted nothing was wrong until customer insisted leak-down and compression test's were performed) Note the deposits that formed while the dealer had him drive on it while they denied any damage)





Right from BG's site:





LLT w/12k miles on it:





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Old 05-23-2016, 09:00 PM   #8
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^ Exactly why you upper induction clean often enough to prevent such build up. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound in treatment.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:31 AM   #9
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This may be a dumb question, but here we go. If you change oil more frequently would it reduce the amount of dirty oil recycling past the intake valves? Or in other words, does oil changed every 3k cause the same amount of carbon build-up on internal parts compared to oil changed every 6k-10k miles?
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:59 AM   #10
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No. The oil mist enters via the intake air charge as a mist included in the PCV vapors. BUT, using a good full synthetic oil over the cheap GM Dexos blend will result in less severe coking. The fuel you use has zero effect.


Dizzy is correct, but that still does not prevent the scouring of the pistons and cylinder walls as there will always be a certain amount of these hard deposits forced between the piston and wall, and as these are very hard abrasive deposits that is not good. Same with the valve guides. As a solvent based induction cleaner will not remove more than 40% or so, you always have abrasive deposits drawn into the soft guide with each cycle of the valve and this prematurely wears the guides out of spec. The absolute best method is to perform a manual intake valve cleaning with either the crushed walnut shell blasting method, or the brush and solvent method. Start with deposit free valves as once even a small amount begins to form these adhere to the deposits easier than a bare metal valve. Then install a system design just for GDI engines like the Elite E2 or E2-X system, and then do a solvent based cleaning every 10-15 k miles.

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Old 05-24-2016, 04:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Engineering View Post
No. The oil mist enters via the intake air charge as a mist included in the PCV vapors. BUT, using a good full synthetic oil over the cheap GM Dexos blend will result in less severe coking. The fuel you use has zero effect.


Dizzy is correct, but that still does not prevent the scouring of the pistons and cylinder walls as there will always be a certain amount of these hard deposits forced between the piston and wall, and as these are very hard abrasive deposits that is not good. Same with the valve guides. As a solvent based induction cleaner will not remove more than 40% or so, you always have abrasive deposits drawn into the soft guide with each cycle of the valve and this prematurely wears the guides out of spec. The absolute best method is to perform a manual intake valve cleaning with either the crushed walnut shell blasting method, or the brush and solvent method. Start with deposit free valves as once even a small amount begins to form these adhere to the deposits easier than a bare metal valve. Then install a system design just for GDI engines like the Elite E2 or E2-X system, and then do a solvent based cleaning every 10-15 k miles.

Good to hear, I've been using Mobil1 since 3,000 mile oil change.
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Old 05-25-2016, 07:42 AM   #12
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Good info. I've had an Elite Catch Can shortly after I purchased the car new and use Mobile 1 EXP changing it twice a year, which is about 2500 miles per change. A little overkill but I do it myself for just under $40 a change. Thanks for the feedback Elite.
By the way I get about 1 oz in my Elite Catch Can every 1300 miles.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Engineering View Post
First, one has to understand just what occurs using a solvent based cleaner such as this (any of them). With older port injection or carbureted engines the carbon was soft, and mainly formed on the piston tops and combustion chambers. These were great as they would loosen them and allow the residue to be expelled out the exhaust. Withe a GDI engine such as the LLT/LFX/LGF and new LT1 though, the deposits are forming on the intake valves, and as no fuel sprays on the valves to keep them cool and clean, these deposits that form are severe as well as what is referred to as "hard carbon". This is a baked crystalline formation that is very hard and abrasive, so the smaller particles that come loose, some will always be forced between the piston and cylinder walls causing scouring (scratches) and enter the crankcase with some of the solvent so not only is it critical to change oil and filter immediately following use, it is almost always going to cause some engine damage on a GDI engine when used. And, if you read the disclaimers on the products web sites, "cleans up TO 40%" or so of the deposits. When used on a GDI engine with over 10-15k miles on, then you risk a large piece of the deposits coming loose and getting stuck between a valve and seat allowing piston to valve contact, and bent valves. Then where does what does come loose go? Unlike the minor "soft carbon" deposits of the past, these hard chunks can impact the hot catalytic converter causing clogging and failure of the strata inside.


The only way you can safely use these is before coking reaches an amount that is not enough to cause damage, and is used every 10k or so miles afterwards, but this does not prevent the wear occurring in the meantime to the valve guides as they are worn by the deposits carried into the guides with every cycle or stroke of the valve, and the ONLT way to safe guard against severe deposits forming on the intake valves is one of the few catchcans that trap most all of the oil and other suspended contaminants from the PCV vapors like the Elite E2 and E2-X systems. These are 90-95% effective where the average "catchcan" only traps 15-30% MAX of these. So yes, the average catchcan, no matter the brand name on it, is not going to help much at all, and although the port injection LS based V8's have no coking issues, the GDI V6 and new GDI V8's cannot tolerate even small amounts of ingestion.


Here are some pictures. Bent valve when chuck broke loose during dealer BG upper induction cleaning service: (dealer refused to cover repairs and insisted nothing was wrong until customer insisted leak-down and compression test's were performed) Note the deposits that formed while the dealer had him drive on it while they denied any damage)





Right from BG's site:





LLT w/12k miles on it:





Questions? Just ask.






How can you caption pictures that you didn't personally take. I knew I had seen some of your pictures other places. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...t=Valve+carbon Sc2150 had posted pictures. Then you post some of the same ones. Here again piston pictures. You posted later the same ones. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=265217&page=4
I can't take time to see where all your pictures came from. The fact you would claim anyone's pictures as yours, makes you not trustworthy. Things like piston damage. You don't know how it happened. I have a problem using scare tactics. Using other people's pictures. You may have a great catch can, but I don't trust you. I can see why elite engineering is in financial trouble.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:04 PM   #14
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The pictures are a visual aid. I don't think it was expressly said, "I/we at Elite took these pictures." Have you ever heard that a picture is worth a thousand words? I believe they did say that the only safe way to clean coked up 'dirty' valves is by mechanical cleaning methods, and that the catch can is a preventive step in helping keep your intake valves as clean as possible. I think your over analyzing the entire situation, bordering on being paranoid. Elite is the premier manufacturer and the leader in the catch can field and a paying sponsor of Camaro5. I'm failing to see your legitimate problem with them? What, they upgraded there product? They don't gaurentee 100% clean intake valves with the use of there product? I'm missing your point? You don't like there sales pitch, then don't buy there product, move on.
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