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Old 09-23-2013, 08:32 AM   #101
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shit okay that didn't help but what you do next SHOULD definitely fix the lean issue which might fix the boost spike?

your injector delta will never ever reach 42psi except in this lean spike, infact it will never drop below 45psi SO:

- goto the injector flow rate vs pressure table and select all the cells from 44.7psi until the lowest cell which in my tune at least is 18.6psi and multiply them by 0.9, then select from 44.7psi to 50.5psi and click interpolate between horizontal bounds so it smoothens the transition, this will only edit the cell in the middle which is the 47.6psi cell.

Keep transiet fuel ON this time since your saying its better with it turned on.

Then, goto the throttle opening rate table and right click >> column axis >> edit.

make the values 1250, 2500, 3750, 5000, 6250

and for the in-gear from 1st to 6th gear values enter:

5 for 6250
4 for 5000
3 for 3750, 2500 and 1250

Do both changes the same time and log, look at how throttle position rate responds to those values cause it might be a trial and error thing.

im positive you will come back with better news the next time!
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:14 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by ayousef View Post
shit okay that didn't help but what you do next SHOULD definitely fix the lean issue which might fix the boost spike?

your injector delta will never ever reach 42psi except in this lean spike, infact it will never drop below 45psi SO:

- goto the injector flow rate vs pressure table and select all the cells from 44.7psi until the lowest cell which in my tune at least is 18.6psi and multiply them by 0.9, then select from 44.7psi to 50.5psi and click interpolate between horizontal bounds so it smoothens the transition, this will only edit the cell in the middle which is the 47.6psi cell.

Keep transiet fuel ON this time since your saying its better with it turned on.

Then, goto the throttle opening rate table and right click >> column axis >> edit.

make the values 1250, 2500, 3750, 5000, 6250

and for the in-gear from 1st to 6th gear values enter:

5 for 6250
4 for 5000
3 for 3750, 2500 and 1250

Do both changes the same time and log, look at how throttle position rate responds to those values cause it might be a trial and error thing.

im positive you will come back with better news the next time!
Good call on the injector settings! This definitely helped...I still have some tweaking to do, but definitely helped. So any ill side effects I should be concerned with?

Your throttle settings seem to be a little more complicated than needed.

I started w/all set to 3 and clean as can be. Then I got greedy and set it all back to 100 ...that didn't quite work out the way I hoped. I settled on 8 and looked like I was in good shape from 3rd to 4th, but then I tried 2nd to 3rd...can't do it WOT on street tires, and it knocked pretty bad. 4th to 5th also at WOT knocked bad (practice for the mile ).

So, I think my conclusion is the flow vs. pressure solution definitely worked...now I just need to get to the track so I can test different rates for injectors and throttle.

The 90% was just a starting point...correct? Any concerns or ill effects if I go smaller?
Thanks Mohamad!

BTW, after many tweaks and runs tonight, I've gone back to the theory that detonation is causing the boost spike. I did see a boost spike w/out logged KR, but I heard the knock...some reason the sensors didn't log it.

I still think I can benefit from slowing down the bypass valve, so still plan to test that when I get the jets I ordered.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:38 PM   #103
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BTW, I just noticed something else I think is contributing...my timing doesn't get down to where it is supposed to be fast enough...for example at 5013 rpm, 1.42 CylAir my timing is still at 22, coming down from 30+...no wonder I'm knocking!

I'm thinking I need to lower my timing in the high RPM low Cylinder Air range...so it doesn't have so far to come back down???
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:07 PM   #104
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BTW, I just noticed something else I think is contributing...my timing doesn't get down to where it is supposed to be fast enough...for example at 5013 rpm, 1.42 CylAir my timing is still at 22, coming down from 30+...no wonder I'm knocking!

I'm thinking I need to lower my timing in the high RPM low Cylinder Air range...so it doesn't have so far to come back down???
wohooow it worked, how awesome is that. there is 0 downside to what you're doing, your car will NEVER ever get into this range of the injector flow rate table except in this specific scenario, there isn't any other time injector delta would go down to 37psi.

Now 0.9 was not only a starter it was also nothing but a guess, you can see how injector duty cycle now goes UP during the dip, I think you should now try to multiple that range by 0.95 but again you need to smothen to make sure the changes are not abrupt. Keep doing small steps until the it doesn't get lean enough, a little lean during the shift is fine, I confirmed that my car does it as well yesterday but I cant use this trick to fix my lean spike unfortunately lol.

Also I did notice the timing thing, lower the timing in that portion of the table by a few degrees and I think your problem is gone for good even if you don't restrict the blower bypass valve. Now put the MAF sensor back on!
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:23 PM   #105
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also don't get too greedy on the throttle thing, use the injector trick as the main solution and back it up by slowing down the throttlebody slightly, you wont even feel it being slower if im not mistaken and this way you could bang the shifts without worrying either since it will ramp in the power more linearly.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:20 PM   #106
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wohooow it worked, how awesome is that. there is 0 downside to what you're doing, your car will NEVER ever get into this range of the injector flow rate table except in this specific scenario, there isn't any other time injector delta would go down to 37psi.

Now 0.9 was not only a starter it was also nothing but a guess, you can see how injector duty cycle now goes UP during the dip, I think you should now try to multiple that range by 0.95 but again you need to smothen to make sure the changes are not abrupt. Keep doing small steps until the it doesn't get lean enough, a little lean during the shift is fine, I confirmed that my car does it as well yesterday but I cant use this trick to fix my lean spike unfortunately lol.

Also I did notice the timing thing, lower the timing in that portion of the table by a few degrees and I think your problem is gone for good even if you don't restrict the blower bypass valve. Now put the MAF sensor back on!
It does seem to be a little ironic that I can fix my lean spike due to an inadequate fueling system . I guess this means no fuel system upgrade for me! Moving back to MAF tune and setting it all up now...hope to test drive tonight.

(my damn car is so obnoxiously loud...I hate driving through the neighborhood after 10pm...)
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:18 PM   #107
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Well, I did a little testing on the tune after rolling back to the MAF tune and then updating all the new settings. Unfortunatley I didn't get in as many test runs as I would have liked...police decided they didn't like my going 140 down their road. (I swear its a safe feeder road for tuning, and luckily he agreed and let me off w/a verbal warning .) Normally I don't get quite that fast, but the mile is coming up, and last year I had a hell of a time shifting 4-5th at 6K... I think the new clutch is going to help out greatly!

Decided to call it a night.

I reduced the low pressure injector size a little more and smoothed after I got home...I think I'm ready to try it out at the track!
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:20 AM   #108
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Well, I did a little testing on the tune after rolling back to the MAF tune and then updating all the new settings. Unfortunatley I didn't get in as many test runs as I would have liked...police decided they didn't like my going 140 down their road. (I swear its a safe feeder road for tuning, and luckily he agreed and let me off w/a verbal warning .) Normally I don't get quite that fast, but the mile is coming up, and last year I had a hell of a time shifting 4-5th at 6K... I think the new clutch is going to help out greatly!

Decided to call it a night.

I reduced the low pressure injector size a little more and smoothed after I got home...I think I'm ready to try it out at the track!
Did that two days ago so I know how it feels, for some reason it freaked me out much more than before, maybe im getting old I dunno.

But yes, it definitely is ironic, cause if you didn't have the fuel pressure dip there was no way you could have solved the issue lol. Again though I don't think your fuel system is inadequate, its just that it cannot respond to a sudden increase in demand from the ECM that quick, with that said try to keep your fuel level as high as possible to avoid any possible issue

Please report back on what you end up at with the new changes.
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:22 PM   #109
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Will report back when I get back to the track. Hopefully with a 10.5 number!
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:59 PM   #110
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A simple fix is to restrict the vacuum source to slow the closing of the bypass.

You can use a motorcycle carb jet in the bypass tube I would start around .030

Ted.
About how much longer is the bypass held open doing this? And does it have the opposite effect on opening the bypass - takes slightly longer initially?

Sounds like a great idea, in that it seems to take about 1/2 second to ramp the boost back up for me.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:16 PM   #111
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About how much longer is the bypass held open doing this? And does it have the opposite effect on opening the bypass - takes slightly longer initially?

Sounds like a great idea, in that it seems to take about 1/2 second to ramp the boost back up for me.
It really depends on the size of the orifice.

If boost is slow to ramp up either the throttle is slow or the bypass is slow and a jet would just slow the bypass more.

Ted.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
A simple fix is to restrict the vacuum source to slow the closing of the bypass.

You can use a motorcycle carb jet in the bypass tube I would start around .030

Ted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
It really depends on the size of the orifice.

If boost is slow to ramp up either the throttle is slow or the bypass is slow and a jet would just slow the bypass more.

Ted.
Thanks Ted...sounds like a balancing act, but if I can hold boost during shifts, I suppose getting into boost off the line will be the easy part. I just ordered a .30 and a .35 to experiment with for the 1/4 mile. It looked like the smallest was .30 for Mikuni.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:36 PM   #113
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Thanks Ted... just ordered a .30 and a .35 to experiment with for the 1/4 mile. It looked like the smallest was .30 for Mikuni.
I haven't heard of this issue on a Maggie? Are you having the problem. I fixed mine by slowing down the throttle and changing the fuel injectors during the initial drop in pressure...seems to be working great.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:52 PM   #114
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I haven't heard of this issue on a Maggie? Are you having the problem. I fixed mine by slowing down the throttle and changing the fuel injectors during the initial drop in pressure...seems to be working great.
Not a boost spike, but I'm having a lot of timing pulled after of each shift at WOT for about .4-.5 seconds (sometimes ~ .3 sec) - which is also about how long it's taking for boost to hit max. It also could be boost is taking longer due to the timing. We've ruled out knock, burst knock, and torque management, but might be a hidden problem with the Nick Williams 102mm TB. We're not letting it go into test mode (so limp mode can't occur in theory), but the ECM might be reacting still. Plus I drilled out the orifice on the drivers valve cover to allow my RX Monster Catch can to work better for my current boost levels vs blow by pressure. It's only a theory of mine at this point, but the Maggie has 3 vacuum inlets on the drivers side - the center one is being used by the bypass valve. The other 2 are flowing a lot more with the valve cover orifice to the catch can being drilled out to 1/4", so the vacuum to the Maggie bypass might be slightly reduced during shifts at high rpm and while the engine is still venting. The tune was adjusted for the unmetered air already.

However, I was interested in how to hold boost during shifts - like the ZL1 is able to do. Powershifting to hold boost seems too risky to me - with how quick rpm can climb already.
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:34 PM   #115
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Not a boost spike, but I'm having a lot of timing pulled after of each shift at WOT for about .4-.5 seconds (sometimes ~ .3 sec) - which is also about how long it's taking for boost to hit max. It also could be boost is taking longer due to the timing. We've ruled out knock, burst knock, and torque management, but might be a hidden problem with the Nick Williams 102mm TB. We're not letting it go into test mode (so limp mode can't occur in theory), but the ECM might be reacting still. Plus I drilled out the orifice on the drivers valve cover to allow my RX Monster Catch can to work better for my current boost levels vs blow by pressure. It's only a theory of mine at this point, but the Maggie has 3 vacuum inlets on the drivers side - the center one is being used by the bypass valve. The other 2 are flowing a lot more with the valve cover orifice to the catch can being drilled out to 1/4", so the vacuum to the Maggie bypass might be slightly reduced during shifts at high rpm and while the engine is still venting. The tune was adjusted for the unmetered air already.

However, I was interested in how to hold boost during shifts - like the ZL1 is able to do. Powershifting to hold boost seems too risky to me - with how quick rpm can climb already.
Hmmm, you seem to be having the opposite problem I saw where boost was too fast. I don't think the jet is going to help. I see your theory of holding the bypass open, but it will still slow down opening after it starts to close. That recommendation was to slow down the bypass valve so boost ramped up slower...

I logged my friends Maggie last time I was at the track. I'll have to take a look at it when I get back home this weekend.
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