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V8 and V6 Transmissions / Driveline (6L80 / 6L50 / TR6060 / AY6) Driveshafts | Differentials | Gears | Rearends | Clutch | Shifters

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Old 11-10-2013, 12:43 PM   #1
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Tremec vs. Muncie?

How does the Tremec 6 spd hold up compared to the old Muncie "Rock Crusher" 4 spd trans from the 60s and 70s factory hotrods? I was looking at old videos on Y.T. where they are literally slamming gears on the Muncie and supposedly they held up to the abuse. Can the Tremec take the punishment?
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:46 PM   #2
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Ive never owned a standard, but I can tell you tremec held up in the 4th gens at the track. Ive seen some crazy power run through them.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:35 PM   #3
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The old m22s arent nearly as strong as a modern trans.
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Old 11-10-2013, 02:01 PM   #4
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An M22 'Rock Crusher' was a good trans. New ones for performance cars do the same thing but better.

Bear in mind that the only thing really special M22 vs M21 was that the M22 was close-ratio box and that the gear teeth are cut differently in the M22, so they were less likely to break.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:38 PM   #5
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Auto gear makes a new m22 with a way better casting case. Italian made gears. Cast iron mid plate and roller side cover. I have one with a gear vendor on the back. I have seen guys pushing 700+ hp to these. Plus they shift unlike the tremec. I have had many tko's in the past but they dont like rpms.
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrinkdoc View Post
How does the Tremec 6 spd hold up compared to the old Muncie "Rock Crusher" 4 spd trans from the 60s and 70s factory hotrods? I was looking at old videos on Y.T. where they are literally slamming gears on the Muncie and supposedly they held up to the abuse. Can the Tremec take the punishment?
The Tremecs are way tougher than the old Muncies. I never had a "Rock Crusher", but the M20s and M21s were extremely weak. Myself and everyone that I knew, who hammered on them, used to blow them out on a regular basis. The aluminum case seemed to be their weakest link and since the M22s used the same case, I don't see how could have been much tougher. I'm a GM guy, through and through, but the Ford and Chrysler cast-iron 4-speeds of that era, were way stronger. GM also had the Saginaw cast-iron 4-speeds, but they were even weaker. I finally gave up on the Muncies and switched to a Turbo 400 and that was the end of my transmission troubles. The Turbo 400s were virtually indestructible. They were definitely the best transmissions of the muscle car era and one of the top three or four ever.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:52 AM   #7
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I agree the th400 is way better. But many dont know that there are brand new muncies available. There not gm castings. They are brand new castings. They are what gm never perfected. They are made by autogear out of new york. They call it the supercase muncie.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:11 PM   #8
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How about the Aisin Warner Ay6?

How Tuff is the Aisin Warner? The specs say up 345 lbs of torq.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
An M22 'Rock Crusher' was a good trans. New ones for performance cars do the same thing but better.

Bear in mind that the only thing really special M22 vs M21 was that the M22 was close-ratio box and that the gear teeth are cut differently in the M22, so they were less likely to break.
The M21 was a close ratio too. The M20 was the wide ratio.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #10
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I got pretty good at pulling out and putting in M21's in my old Camaro. The only good thing about the aluminum case you could get them in and out easier than a cast iron box. Stock 350 and I broke at least 3 if not 4 of them. I haven't been as hard on the Tremec but it does seem more solid.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by smokum View Post
I agree the th400 is way better. But many dont know that there are brand new muncies available. There not gm castings. They are brand new castings. They are what gm never perfected. They are made by autogear out of new york. They call it the supercase muncie.
I know about the new "Muncies" and while I'm sure that they are much improved over the old ones, the price and lack of overdrive keeps me from considering one. I've been looking for a stick to replace the 700R4 in my '69 Camaro and I assumed I'd get a TKO 600, but you're not the first person I've heard complain about them. I guess they don't like to shift at high RPM. Do you know any thing about the new 5-Speed that Keisler has? I think they have really been bragging it up, but I don't think they have a very good track record. I think they are famous for over-promising and under-delivering.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:41 PM   #12
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Keislers ss700 was suppose to be the holy grail of overdrives for old musclecars. They are suppose to shift at high rpm etc etc etc. I waited 2 years to never get one. I gave up and bought a new muncie and a gear vendor overdrive. Love it and with the wide open shift into overdrive at any time. Nice even 22% split. Take off with the nitrous on in first. Hit overdrive which is like 2nd gear. Shift to 2nd like third and third like fourth and have a .8 fifth. They do make an overdrive model of the new muncie. It is like a 3 speed manual with overdrive 4th.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:49 PM   #13
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Muncie my hometown

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Old 11-11-2013, 09:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokum View Post
Keislers ss700 was suppose to be the holy grail of overdrives for old musclecars. They are suppose to shift at high rpm etc etc etc. I waited 2 years to never get one. I gave up and bought a new muncie and a gear vendor overdrive. Love it and with the wide open shift into overdrive at any time. Nice even 22% split. Take off with the nitrous on in first. Hit overdrive which is like 2nd gear. Shift to 2nd like third and third like fourth and have a .8 fifth. They do make an overdrive model of the new muncie. It is like a 3 speed manual with overdrive 4th.
That sounds like a sweet setup, but don't you have a lot of coin in it? I'd just like to have a nice shifting 5-Speed for my '69. Something that would handle about 500hp on slicks and have about a .7 to 1 5th gear. My car has a 4.10 12 bolt in it. I always thought a TKO 600 would be perfect, until I read some complaints about them not wanting to shift at high RPM. But a lot of other people claim that they've never had any problem. I've thought about putting a T56 in it, but I don't really need the double overdrive.
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