Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Hellion Power Systems
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission

Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission Tune and diagnostics for engines and auto transmission.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-03-2013, 08:41 PM   #1
E.T.


 
E.T.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 3,146
Tuners: where do you set shift point on L99

Just wondering what is considered safe on the L99 with stock cam and AFM lifters. I recently had a blower installed and the car got dyno tuned as well. The shop says the rev limiter is set to around 6650 RPM, and the shift point in sport mode is at 6500. Can the lifters handle this? I'm not constantly redlining it, but I'm not always babying it, either
__________________

E.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 09:01 PM   #2
white ZL1

 
white ZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #7922
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DFW area
Posts: 1,744
Was it still making power up there?
__________________

2013 ZL1 #7922
ADM CAI, 90mm tb, 9.55 lower, LS9 cam, FIC 95s, SW headers, Ron Davis hx
white ZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 09:41 PM   #3
Rhino79



 
Rhino79's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS L99/Auto
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cabot, AR
Posts: 2,357
Wow, usually even with some revised vvt tuning the power will fall off past 6200. On the stock cam, the lifters will live probably for a little while, but I usually set shift points to around 6100 rpm.
__________________

Specializing in LS performance and calibrations.
Remote tuning, In-house builds, and Parts. Custom Grind LS and VVT Camshaft packages.
Ryan@gogwatney.com Aaron@gogwatney.com www.Gwatneyperformance.com
Home of THE Fastest Stock Displacement Naturally Aspirated GEN 5! 10.45@133.55
Rhino79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 09:47 PM   #4
E.T.


 
E.T.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 3,146
Here's the graph. It's definitely past peak, but even at 6500, it's still making well over 450 HP.
Attached Images
 
__________________

E.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 09:58 PM   #5
Supercharged SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 12,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.T. View Post
Here's the graph. It's definitely past peak, but even at 6500, it's still making well over 450 HP.
It's not going make any power if the AFM lifters fail. Maybe see if Livernois can at least bring the points down to 6200. You're not going to loose that much power but that may be the little difference you need to gain longevity. If there was no afm failure history but you know it's record.


Just food for thought.
Supercharged SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 10:24 PM   #6
E.T.


 
E.T.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 3,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
It's not going make any power if the AFM lifters fail. Maybe see if Livernois can at least bring the points down to 6200. You're not going to loose that much power but that may be the little difference you need to gain longevity. If there was no afm failure history but you know it's record.


Just food for thought.
Thanks, yeah I'm in the process of asking them now. I figure they must've tuned a ton of these, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I fooled around with it today a little bit on the on ramps, and it seemed to shift lower than 6500, but higher than 6000. It's hard to say for sure, I was paying more attention to the road than the gauges.
__________________

E.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 10:30 PM   #7
white ZL1

 
white ZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #7922
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DFW area
Posts: 1,744
I'd tend to factor out that little "hump" at the end and look at it as an actual curve. That said, I'd think you'd want to be shifting that thing around 6200 or so.
__________________

2013 ZL1 #7922
ADM CAI, 90mm tb, 9.55 lower, LS9 cam, FIC 95s, SW headers, Ron Davis hx
white ZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:00 AM   #8
Alvin@PCMofNC

 
Drives: 2010 IOM RSS
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mooresville
Posts: 363
You want to shift a bit past peak to keep the car in the meat of the power curve. With that dyno sheet I would say 6400-6500 RPM but the DOD lifters aren't going to like that for too long..


A custom cam would really wake that thing up and get you away from the AFM/DOD stuff!
__________________

See what's in our shop on Facebook! Customer Build Blogs!
www.pcmofnc.com
Performance Installs - Dyno Tuning - Mail Order Tuning & Sales
704-307-4227
Alvin@PCMofNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:24 AM   #9
E.T.


 
E.T.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 3,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin@PCMofNC View Post
You want to shift a bit past peak to keep the car in the meat of the power curve. With that dyno sheet I would say 6400-6500 RPM but the DOD lifters aren't going to like that for too long..


A custom cam would really wake that thing up and get you away from the AFM/DOD stuff!
Thanks for the input. I like the way the car shifts now, but I also don't want to blow anything up. I'm waiting to hear back from Livernois, but I'm sure they'll get things sorted out. A cam would be sweet, but my main reason for getting one would be the sound. I know there are many really wild builds out there, but I can't imagine this thing "waking up" more than it already is. Traction is a big issue now, even with all the nannies on.

Do you think the maximum shift point that the lifters can safely handle is 6200 rpm?
__________________

E.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 02:24 PM   #10
amerimuscle
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cleveland Ohio
Posts: 247
do the conversion and have peace of mind
amerimuscle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 02:26 PM   #11
amerimuscle
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cleveland Ohio
Posts: 247
and a cam would not only "wake up" but it would unleash a monster if you added one with an FI application.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...dle+blower+cam
amerimuscle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 03:21 PM   #12
E.T.


 
E.T.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 3,146
Shop confirmed that shift point is set to 6500 rpm in sport mode. They said this is how they set all the Camaros. Not sure what to do. Everything was just torn apart for the blower install, so I don't really want to go through all that again so soon, just to do the conversion. Plus it's not cheap. If peace of mind is all I want, it seems like it would be a lot easier, less expensive and time consuming to just lower the rev limiter and shift point a little.

**edit** I'm thinking of asking them to set the shift point to 6200 and the rev limiter to 6400. Does that sound reasonable, and a little safer?
__________________


Last edited by E.T.; 06-04-2013 at 08:17 PM.
E.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 08:19 PM   #13
itguy
 
Drives: CTS-V Wagon
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SE
Posts: 161
That table does nothing for your shift points. These tranny's shift by MPH not RPM. Yes, I know this can be confusing but it's true...you can set it to shift at 10000 RPM but if your WOT 1-2 shift is set at 30 MPH that's when it will shift.

IMO, you have to spend some time fine-tuning the shift points on the 6l80e as you also have to consider your converter and even your tire due to traction issues...you have to lead into the shift. With my setup, my 1-2 is at 29 MPH because I know my RPM's climb close to 6900 (HPTuner logging) during the shift. I also utilize torque management - some shops turn it off.

That was probably more than you wanted to read but it is what it is

Experts correct me if I'm wrong as I'm speaking from my personal experience.
itguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 08:52 PM   #14
white ZL1

 
white ZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #7922
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DFW area
Posts: 1,744
I'm no expert, but certain T42's definitely don't shift JUST based on MPH. Mine is one of them. 1-2 is almost purely based on mph, but my 2-3 and 3-4 are shifting based on RPM.
__________________

2013 ZL1 #7922
ADM CAI, 90mm tb, 9.55 lower, LS9 cam, FIC 95s, SW headers, Ron Davis hx
white ZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:12 PM   #15
itguy
 
Drives: CTS-V Wagon
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SE
Posts: 161
I attached a pic showing my WOT shift points and a log of my very first 1/4 mile run which I managed a 12.1. My car shifted at commanded MPH and not RPM.

Since this was my first time running, I have since tweaked my tune for track use only as traction isn't as good on the street. If I increase my commanded shift points on the street I bounce the limiter when I lose traction.
Attached Images
 
Attached Files
File Type: zip first run 12.1.zip (395.6 KB, 24 views)
itguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:13 PM   #16
E.T.


 
E.T.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 3,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by itguy View Post
That table does nothing for your shift points. These tranny's shift by MPH not RPM. Yes, I know this can be confusing but it's true...you can set it to shift at 10000 RPM but if your WOT 1-2 shift is set at 30 MPH that's when it will shift.

IMO, you have to spend some time fine-tuning the shift points on the 6l80e as you also have to consider your converter and even your tire due to traction issues...you have to lead into the shift. With my setup, my 1-2 is at 29 MPH because I know my RPM's climb close to 6900 (HPTuner logging) during the shift. I also utilize torque management - some shops turn it off.

That was probably more than you wanted to read but it is what it is

Experts correct me if I'm wrong as I'm speaking from my personal experience.
Thanks. That sounds kind of confusing, but it sort of makes sense. Last night I was trying to watch when it shifting while barreling down an on-ramp, and it was somewhere over 6000, but it didn't seem like it went all the way to 6500.

Well after reading a little more about it and talking with Livernois, I think I'm just going to leave well enough alone. I initially chose them because of all the good things people said on here. They seem to have a good reputation, so I will trust their judgement. According to them, they have tuned over 2500 cars with DOD/AFM (not just L99's) and have never had a customer with lifter failure due to RPMs. **knock on wood**

Also, since it was tuned on the dyno (as opposed to mail order) I'm assuming they had all the data they needed to set the proper shifts based on MPH.
__________________

E.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:22 PM   #17
white ZL1

 
white ZL1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #7922
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DFW area
Posts: 1,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by itguy View Post
I attached a pic showing my WOT shift points and a log of my very first 1/4 mile run which I managed a 12.1. My car shifted at commanded MPH and not RPM.

Since this was my first time running, I have since tweaked my tune for track use only as traction isn't as good on the street. If I increase my commanded shift points on the street I bounce the limiter when I lose traction.
Could just be that you're already right at the MPH flag?
I intentionally left my MPH flag's low and figured I'd start creeping up on the shift point that I wanted. And my RPM flags were set right at 6400.....and the shift happened at 6400. As I started upping the MPH, the shifts were still happening at 6400.
Either way, a few others have had the same experience I have.....and others (like you) haven't.
__________________

2013 ZL1 #7922
ADM CAI, 90mm tb, 9.55 lower, LS9 cam, FIC 95s, SW headers, Ron Davis hx
white ZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:26 PM   #18
itguy
 
Drives: CTS-V Wagon
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SE
Posts: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by white 2SS/RS View Post
Could just be that you're already right at the MPH flag?
I intentionally left my MPH flag's low and figured I'd start creeping up on the shift point that I wanted. And my RPM flags were set right at 6400.....and the shift happened at 6400. As I started upping the MPH, the shifts were still happening at 6400.
Either way, a few others have had the same experience I have.....and others (like you) haven't.

Yep, I wish mine was as easy as commanding the RPM...boy that would have saved me some stress..haha
itguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:51 PM   #19
Supercharged SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 12,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by white 2SS/RS View Post
I'm no expert, but certain T42's definitely don't shift JUST based on MPH. Mine is one of them. 1-2 is almost purely based on mph, but my 2-3 and 3-4 are shifting based on RPM.
This is 1000% correct. This uses both mph and rpm to determine the shift point. There is no way to dictate which one it uses. I know from experience a while back. It took many passes to get the wot shifting perfect. I would bet that 99% of the l99's are shifting all over the place. It takes a lot of effort to get the shift point exactly where you want it.
Supercharged SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 10:29 PM   #20
JANNETTYRACING
PRESIDENT CALIBRATOR JRE

 
JANNETTYRACING's Avatar
 
Drives: YELLOW 2013 ZL1 AUTO
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ON THE DYNO WATERBURY CT.
Posts: 9,716
There are Multiple TCM operating systems and they all have they're own Quirks.

Some you can just set the RPM and it will nail it,
some you can just do MPH
some require Both to be dead on or it will favor one or the other.
Any Tire spin and everything goes out the window.

Ted
__________________
Technical information, Parts Sales, Professional Installation, and Custom Dyno Tuning.
Please vist our web sites for all your performance needs!
Ted Jannetty
Jannetty Racing Ent Inc.
2984 East Main St.
Waterbury Ct. 06705
203-753-7223
tedj@jannettyracing.com
www.jannettyracing.com
www.turboaddictionparts.com
Performance Parts
JANNETTYRACING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 10:38 PM   #21
Supercharged SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 12,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
There are Multiple TCM operating systems and they all have they're own Quirks.

Some you can just set the RPM and it will nail it,
some you can just do MPH
some require Both to be dead on or it will favor one or the other.
Any Tire spin and everything goes out the window.

Ted
Isn't it past your bed time?
Supercharged SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 07:13 PM   #22
Motion427
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS Red Jewel L99
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NB,Canada
Posts: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
Isn't it past your bed time?

Must be working overtime.
Or he's now working late at night because you bug him all the time during the day.
Motion427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 03:07 PM   #23
Pro Stock John
Writer
 
Pro Stock John's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 SS / 1951 Mercury
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,979
Poked around, okay to piggy back on this thread?

So if I am tuning my own shift points for an L99 with HP Tuners, and let's say I was going for a 6200 shift point on 2-3. Let's say I hit my targeted goal last time with '58' mph and '6000' RPMS in the appropriate tables. So to try to and hit 6200, should I go up 1 or 2 MPH? And should I also command 6200 for RPMs?
__________________
PROJECT HEAVY CHEVY
Camaro Now: Mods for the Masses Part I | Part II
13.15@106 1.95 | 100% Stock
12.37@112 1.85 | Headers, Cats | 555R DR | CAI | UDP | Tune
12.06@113 1.70 | +NT05R 18s | + Circle D 3200
11.84@113 1.59 | + 3.91s | +Race Star 17x7s
Mods: GPI Tune | Bo's PTB | Kooks LTs | Hooker Maxflows | Circle D 3200 | New Era OTR | RCR AirRam Manifold | Powerbond UDP | 3.91s
Pro Stock John is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 04:21 PM   #24
E.T.


 
E.T.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 3,146
I can't answer your question, but I don't mind the piggy backing
__________________

E.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 05:14 PM   #25
Motion427
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS Red Jewel L99
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NB,Canada
Posts: 839
Command the RPM to 6200rpm
Motion427 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.