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Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 06-04-2013, 03:33 AM   #1
BenzinaBrera
 
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Need 3.6 tuning knowledge

Hi guys, i have some questions to ask from all guys on the tuning scene over here, but first some background.

I actually have a Alfa Romeo Brera, but the Engine is the alloytec in 3.2 guise and the heads are the direct injection heads that the LLT camaro uses that GM and Fiat co-developed, in any case i converted my Brera to 3.6 thanks to importing the needed parts from newgmparts.com (highly reccomended btw) so in essence i have a 3.6 LLT now.

I checked a lot of youtube vids and noticed the camaro gets whooped by quite a few similarly powered cars. this caused me great concern as i love the alloytec engine and want to wave the flag high, even if it is the american flag with an italian flag background haha.

Now to help the situation along i have prepared some mods, i would just like to hear how much power you guys think my car might push after im done with my mods since you have a lot more experience in these engines than people here in South Africa

Along with the 3.6 conversion im running:

-K&N Filter
-Fully port & polished Heads
-Complete removal of catalytic converters
-Complete remap tuned to use with 95 octane fuel (hopefully from trifecta)
-Extrude Honed Intake manifold

Also the Alfa uses the GM F40 Gearbox and Torsen 4 wheel drive system. Do you guys think the F40 Box will help with acceleration assuming it has shorter ratios maybe than the Camaro?

Also something i dont understand is both the camaro and cadillac ATS are LFX models but the Caddy runs away from a 335 and the camaro loses out completely?? these should essentially be the same cars more or less?

Sorry about all my rambling but ey camaro land is my home now that i have a LLT hehe.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:18 AM   #2
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Problem with the Camaro isnt so much the engine as it's the weight that prevents it from really shining. I don't know it to be a fact, but I believe the Camaro is at least 200lbs heavier than each of the similarly powered cars you are talking about.

If you truly have an LLT engine, and your car is sub-3600lbs, you should be ok vs those cars you see on youtube. But of course there are other variables I dont know about your car. Gearing, drivetrain etc
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:20 AM   #3
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Brera is 3500lbs more or less but like you say there are other variables like the awd etc but im hoping it will be close atleast. Otherwise i have to drive her with the mods until i have enough money for the RX roots charger and retrofit that badboy hehe

Ill keep you guys posted with some pics of the car etc, i know its not a camaro but since it runs llt maybe some people would just like to.see

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Old 06-04-2013, 11:42 AM   #4
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Pls post some pic and videos. I love breras. I wish they sold them here. It would by my secondary car... if I could afford it lol.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:47 AM   #5
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Haha alfas arent usually that explensive.

Good news is alfa is coming to america, bad news is they dont make the brera anymore.

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Old 06-04-2013, 12:15 PM   #6
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I'd love to see some pics of your car as well!

I think you'll easily be able to take down the cars you see camaros lose to in youtube videos mostly because of the weight. These cars are pigs. With less weight, these cars would really be something.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:29 PM   #7
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So is this your car then?
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:22 PM   #8
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Yes my personal car

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Old 06-04-2013, 02:43 PM   #9
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Oh boy. Brera with 3.6 llt... what else could you ask for??? Italians design some sick cars. I just wish lancia would make modern version of stratos. Take care of that beauty.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:53 PM   #10
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Man I've always thought Alfa's looked amazing. Although I've read/watched (Top Gear) that Alfa's have serious reliability issues. Any truth to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence613 View Post
Problem with the Camaro isnt so much the engine as it's the weight that prevents it from really shining. I don't know it to be a fact, but I believe the Camaro is at least 200lbs heavier than each of the similarly powered cars you are talking about.

If you truly have an LLT engine, and your car is sub-3600lbs, you should be ok vs those cars you see on youtube. But of course there are other variables I dont know about your car. Gearing, drivetrain etc
I'm going to have to agree. The engine is fine, it's the weight that is the real issue. HOWEVER, another issue is the Bosch ECU. I'm curious, what ECU is your Brera using?
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post
Man I've always thought Alfa's looked amazing. Although I've read/watched (Top Gear) that Alfa's have serious reliability issues. Any truth to this?



I'm going to have to agree. The engine is fine, it's the weight that is the real issue. HOWEVER, another issue is the Bosch ECU. I'm curious, what ECU is your Brera using?
He told me in another thread it was the Bosch.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #12
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Benzina,

Have you ever heard of IPF tuning? They have been tuning Bosch ECMs for 10 years throughout Europe and the U.S. Just wondering if you've ever heard of them.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #13
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Bosch, same a LLT however im hoping trifecta can sort this out for me?

Thanks for the compliments on my car i appreciate it. As for the reliability issues not really on modern alfas are there any problems to be honest, i move in a lot of alfa circles in SA and the guys with the new models dont really have problems especially not the gm based models like the 159 and Brera. I think everyone knows here topgear opinions can be really decieving with those clowns.

Im going.to love the 3.6 in this car i think, i will definately post some specs and vids once i have some.

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Old 06-04-2013, 03:07 PM   #14
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Ive heard about ipf but do you think they can also send me a tool and let me send them a data log and then they send me a nice tune back?

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Old 06-04-2013, 03:12 PM   #15
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I approached IPF about potentially tuning my car a couple months ago, I discussed some with Jesse but they didn't want to touch the RX system and basically wanted me to buy the IPF system, if I wanted the tuning from them.

Now the RX supercharger system that I have is different from the IPF because the MAF in the RX is in the stock location BUT the IPF system has their MAF sensor pre charge, which obviously changes the tuning a lot. This is what allows the RX system to run a blow off valve as opposed to the IPF system that recirculates it.

They clearly have the ability to tune it other than the way their system runs but they choose not to. Will they be able to help you? Maybe. But not likely if you do indeed go with the RX Roots system.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:34 PM   #16
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I was thinking about the map for my stock setup currently, rx roots is still a loooong way down the road

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Old 06-04-2013, 03:57 PM   #17
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Hi !

Why rolling around half of the planet .. when you have perfect Tuners in your own Country !

Contact Nasen at Nascar and ask him .... nascar(at)wol.co.za

Greets ASH@IPF-TUNING
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:05 PM   #18
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Hi, thanks! are these guys affiliated with ipf or do you just know them? also do you know if they would be good altering all the parameters like timing etc on this bosch ecu? i just dont want to get the "go-to" piggyback unichip on my car, im not into fooling sensors to create parameters, i want the parameters changed on the ecu itself as if it should always have been that way out of factory.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:15 PM   #19
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I said ill share some pics so here we go. this is mainly about the engine build.

I polished the piston crowns, i know theres a lot of debate whether it really is worth it but i reckoned hey TRD tested and said it make a difference and also i wont mind killing engine knock where ever i can



Alright, on to the heads. next i have smoothed out the valve pockets and removed all casting imperfections.



Next i cleaned off all the muck from the valves thanks to no catchcan as most people know and polished the valves up to help prevent this until i can fit a catch can. also im sure the intake charge would gain velocity down the valves with no resistance.




Next i cleaned up the exhaust ports and slightly enlarged them removing all imperfections once again



Next, smooth out the intakes, i noticed the alfa intakes are more square and the chevs is more round, thats the only difference between these heads and 3.6 LLT Heads. luckily on DI the intakes in my opinion can be smoothed out for velocity because no fuel gets atomized here anymore since the fuel is sprayed directly on the piston.



Then last but not least i smoothed out the combustion chambers also for engine knock etc.



Thats all i have for now guys, i have to say theres a reason head flowing cost a lot of money, doing this work is tedious and a LOT of effort, so much to the extent that it is not a job worth the saving in DIY and something rather left to guys that specialize like RX performance.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:42 PM   #20
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Amazing. Great work!

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Old 06-04-2013, 06:52 PM   #21
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Wow that is great looking work!

Have you ever had that car on the dyno?

I'd love to see what kind of power your making with a tune on that build. Of course your car is AWD, so I'm guessing that would change the wheel horse power shown on the dyno, as compared to the same work done on a Camaro or something similar that is 2 wheel drive.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:22 AM   #22
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Hi i have not dynoed it yet as im assembling the car first haha but ill post figures once i have some, i do believe it might differ from camaros since i should have a bit more drivetrain loss through the 4WD but even so the camaros have loss through the Autobox again so maybe in the end it should all balance our.

SC2150, thanks for the heads up on the intake ports, i will speak to you about that soon.
Yes the piston crowns had a very rough finish and sharp corners that i just rounded a little bit and smoothed out the roughness.
As for the intake valve coking, mothertrucker i was shocked!
Out of your experience, what does this coking do to performance? am i right in saying it disturbs the velocity down the valves?

here are some before and after pics from my valves. Brace yourself.

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Old 06-05-2013, 02:30 PM   #23
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Holy Cow!

That can't be good.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:47 PM   #24
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That is disgusting, good work on cleaning that mess up. Might want to invest in a catch can.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:03 PM   #25
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hell yes im already trying to figure out how i can make the rx one fit in my brera also.
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