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Old 03-07-2015, 05:57 AM   #451
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That pic can't be real. If it is, a interesting note is that LS series engine does look tiny compared to what was in there. Someone had more money than sense if it is real.
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Old 03-08-2015, 05:41 AM   #452
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I read an article where they dyno'd a 1970 LS6 Chevelle auto trans and it put something like 250 HP to the wheels. No way it was making 450 net HP.
Very true. I used to a 1970 LS6. Had it on a chassis dyno at a car show. Never came close to 280hp.
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Old 03-08-2015, 09:06 AM   #453
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Very true. I used to a 1970 LS6. Had it on a chassis dyno at a car show. Never came close to 280hp.
There was recently a Hot Rod article where they recreated many of the famous old motors from the 60's and 70's. Then dynoed them head to head. It was interesting. Most of the motors were either spot on or under rated. I'll see if I can find it.

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Old 03-08-2015, 01:37 PM   #454
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I get annoyed by people that compare pushrod vs OHC motors on displacement. It truly lacks an understanding of reality. The entire argument for a pushrod design is because they are so compact and light you can have big displacement in a small package. You cannot do that with an OHC motor because they are so big and heavy. That is the problem with the OHC design.

The 5.0 Coyote is a BIGGER MOTOR than the 6.2 LS3. Its dimensions are greater and it weighs more. Therefore, the Coyote puts out less horsepower/lb. Until they find a way to significantly lighten OHC motors and shrink their dimensions, I would not want one because they are far more expensive to fix and modify, and give you a much more difficult engine bay to work on. The LS3 is vastly superior because you can modify and service these vehicles far more easily with a greater HP/lb generation.
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Old 03-08-2015, 02:11 PM   #455
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I get annoyed by people that compare pushrod vs OHC motors on displacement. It truly lacks an understanding of reality. The entire argument for a pushrod design is because they are so compact and light you can have big displacement in a small package. You cannot do that with an OHC motor because they are so big and heavy. That is the problem with the OHC design.

The 5.0 Coyote is a BIGGER MOTOR than the 6.2 LS3. Its dimensions are greater and it weighs more. Therefore, the Coyote puts out less horsepower/lb. Until they find a way to significantly lighten OHC motors and shrink their dimensions, I would not want one because they are far more expensive to fix and modify, and give you a much more difficult engine bay to work on. The LS3 is vastly superior because you can modify and service these vehicles far more easily with a greater HP/lb generation.
What about the oil starvation issues we LS guys have on track that other manufacturers don't have until really extreme levels of tracking their cars. Even BMW guys that do LS engine swaps are shocked that the LS blocks are blowing on track more so than their less powered motors. Ford 5.0s also don't have this much of an issue. We need dry sumps setups or oil baffle pans more than others with our motors.
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Old 03-08-2015, 02:20 PM   #456
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What about the oil starvation issues we LS guys have on track that other manufacturers don't have until really extreme levels of tracking their cars. Even BMW guys that do LS engine swaps are shocked that the LS blocks are blowing on track more so than their less powered motors. Ford 5.0s also don't have this much of an issue. We need dry sumps setups or oil baffle pans more than others with our motors.
When you have a 4000 lbs car with 500+ HP (modified) pulling well over a G for a long banked turn shit happens.

The Mustang with it's Coyote is too busy doing barrel rolls and testing out its roll bar... lol j/k

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Old 03-08-2015, 05:12 PM   #457
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When you have a 4000 lbs car with 500+ HP (modified) pulling well over a G for a long banked turn shit happens.

The Mustang with it's Coyote is too busy doing barrel rolls and testing out its roll bar... lol j/k

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Old 03-11-2015, 06:30 PM   #458
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When you have a 4000 lbs car with 500+ HP (modified) pulling well over a G for a long banked turn shit happens.

The Mustang with it's Coyote is too busy doing barrel rolls and testing out its roll bar... lol j/k

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What does the weight of a car have to do with the equation?

On that note my 2014 Mustang GT handles much better than my 2012 Camaro SS did.
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:40 AM   #459
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I love GM, I've had 9 different GM performance vehicles since 1998, besides GM trucks, have a 2010 Chevy Silverado crew cab currently, and only 1 Ford (03 Mach1), with that said, I was looking to replace my offroad puppy with something performance, and 3 weeks ago I started looking in the Camaro's, even posted around here too, doing my research, to choose between the L99 engine or the LS3, test drove both of them: 2012 Camaro SS M6, and 2012 Camaro SS A6, and right before starting the paperwork at the dealer, I spotted what I'm driving today, a 2012 Mustang GT M6, soon after the test drive, I was hooked and madly in love with the damn car, it has the Brembo package with the 3.73's, honestly, and again, I'm GM guy at heart, the Stang has it over the Camaro, stock for stock in the performance department, no doubts about it.

Little did I know about the Coyote engine when I picked the car up from this dealer, again I'm a GM guy, I couldn't care less about the Coyote before , but the engine technology is by far a lot more advanced than an LS3 in this case, we could say it shares some technological advances with the L99 with the VVT, but the TiVCT is bound leaps ahead of the time compared to the LS3, being able to advance/retard the intake cams, completely independent from the Exhaust cams, is by far, the biggest benefit among everything else that has been discussed already in this thread, yes the LS3's have more cubes, with heads and cam, it would be a monster, but the 5.0 is a monster stock considering the lack of CI's stock vs stock, not factoring their price range, and whatever mods you want to thrown into the mix, overall, I love the LS3, and if the dealer had priced the Camaro SS Manual a little bit better, perhaps I could have given the Camaro a chance, the price was right on the stang, and its raw capabilities in stock trim won me over this time, in 3 years, i'll see what else is there to choose, I change my vehicles every 3-4 years more or less, so for now, i'll enjoy what I have, you can't go wrong with either platform, in the end, we're all gearheads, and we don't keep things in stock trim for very long

Have fun.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:18 PM   #460
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Both engines have their pros/cons, but we're at the end of an era and its time to face the facts. The LS3 and 5.0 are both obsolete designs.

We're an energy breakthrough away from electric commuter cars offering the same performance as today's LS3/5.0.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:22 PM   #461
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^^^^
That far more advanced engine technology still doesn't allow the engine to make more power than a LS3 stock. Honestly what good is all that stuff if the engine is bigger, heavier, gets similar mpg with less power and a lot less torque. "the Coyote is a monster stock considering the lack of CI's stock vs stock" quote is a huge ricer statement and means nothing at the end of the day.
The rest of what your describing is the car itself as a whole. This is a engine vs engine thread.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:29 PM   #462
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^^^^
That far more advanced engine technology still doesn't allow the engine to make more power than a LS3 stock. Honestly what good is all that stuff if the engine is bigger, heavier, gets similar mpg with less power and a lot less torque. "the Coyote is a monster stock considering the lack of CI's stock vs stock" quote is a huge ricer statement and means nothing at the end of the day.
The rest of what your describing is the car itself as a whole. This is a engine vs engine thread.
Yeah... what he said.

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Old 03-13-2015, 12:56 PM   #463
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I could have swore that 435 > 430. Maybe I should tell Intel that their logical processors have wrong this whole time.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:03 PM   #464
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I could have swore that 435 > 430. Maybe I should tell Intel that their logical processors have wrong this whole time.
Well realistically the TQ difference makes for a better motor.

I know the title is LS3 vs Coyote but maybe it should be Coyote vs LT1....

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Old 03-13-2015, 01:05 PM   #465
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I could have swore that 435 > 430. Maybe I should tell Intel that their logical processors have wrong this whole time.
Engine only comparison thread. 436>435. Plus this thread was made when the gen 2 Coyote was not out. Plus its 2015. The LS3 is pretty much dead and has been making 436HP since 2008. The 435HP Coyote just came out. The fact that the new Coyote doesn't make as much power as a engine that came out in 2008 and is about to go out of production shows just how good it is.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:07 PM   #466
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I forgot it makes 436 in the Vette...

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Old 03-13-2015, 01:23 PM   #467
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Well realistically the TQ difference makes for a better motor.

I know the title is LS3 vs Coyote but maybe it should be Coyote vs LT1....

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Because HP is calculated from Torque, so of course it makes the engine. I would rather have an engine with a flat torque curve and high revving capabilities than a stump puller.

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Engine only comparison thread. 436>435. Plus this thread was made when the gen 2 Coyote was not out. Plus its 2015. The LS3 is pretty much dead and has been making 436HP since 2008. The 435HP Coyote just came out. The fact that the new Coyote doesn't make as much power as a engine that came out in 2008 and is about to go out of production shows just how good it is.
Engine only, the 436 HP comes from a special option the Corvette offers.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:26 PM   #468
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It's just a factory exhaust option. So max power from an LS3 is 436. Damn near every Vette and Camaro gets ordered with the NPP, mine included.

Also stump puller is the ticket when you have a fat car like all three of the current pony cars are.

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Old 03-13-2015, 01:43 PM   #469
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Engine only comparison thread. 436>435. Plus this thread was made when the gen 2 Coyote was not out. Plus its 2015. The LS3 is pretty much dead and has been making 436HP since 2008. The 435HP Coyote just came out. The fact that the new Coyote doesn't make as much power as a engine that came out in 2008 and is about to go out of production shows just how good it is.
I see your reasoning, yet you called my other comments ricer because I have a different point of view ? I find you funny Vader... in this engine comparison, is final output the only determination of what makes the better motor ? the Coyote trails the LS3 by a few ponies, what's the big deal, 5.0 vs 6.2, there is no argument about what makes the more power is it ? what's your reasoning for the LS3 to be better, weight, power and MPG, technology ?, i'm saying the Coyote is making 15-17hp less HP with 1.2L less, it should have some merits, even for a guy with a chip in its shoulder...
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:45 PM   #470
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It's just a factory exhaust option. So max power from an LS3 is 436. Also stump puller is the ticket when you have a fat car like all three of the current pony cars are.

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My 2014 weighed 3660 with a subwoofer in the back and 3/4 fuel, not bad considering the safety features being mandated by pansies who shouldn't be driving in the first place. With a first gear of 4.17 you can get the car out of the hole fast. Heavy cars need more aggressive gearing but are held back because of EPA requirements that require fuel economy gearing.

Also, Ford Racing offers a ProCal tune that comes with 36,000 mile warranty. GM needs to start offering more performance options for their cars, gearing selection, tuning, and maybe Tri-Y shorties like the Coyote has. It keeps the cats close enough to the engine to warm up but offers torque increases.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:50 PM   #471
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Well let's see my car only weighs 200 lbs than that Mustang and came with 3.91 gears. Steep first gear in my TR6060. The Z/28 comes with Tri Y's. So there's that...

Also I have no worries about my tuned 1LE SS and warranty issues...

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Old 03-13-2015, 01:52 PM   #472
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Double tap...
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:55 PM   #473
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Well let's see my car only weighs 200 lbs than that Mustang and came with 3.91 gears. Steep first gear in my TR6060. The Z/28 comes with Tri Y's. So there's that...

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Z/28 = LS7, not the LS3.

And if your 1LE had a steep first gear, one of them wouldn't have lost to my wife's NA V6 Mustang with 3.73 gears. It was 0.05 seconds slower than my wife's Mustang.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:58 PM   #474
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Z/28 = LS7, not the LS3.

And if your 1LE had a steep first gear, one of them wouldn't have lost to my wife's NA V6 Mustang with 3.73 gears. It was 0.05 seconds slower than my wife's Mustang.
Well WTH are 3.91's? The trouble is it is a manual and driver mod is difficult at best. Tires are all wrong too.

I'm a road course guy hence the purchase of a 1LE. I could give 2 crap about 1/4 mile...

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Old 03-13-2015, 02:19 PM   #475
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Well WTH are 3.91's? The trouble is it is a manual and driver mod is difficult at best. Tires are all wrong too.

I'm a road course guy hence the purchase of a 1LE. I could give 2 crap about 1/4 mile...

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3.91 = rear end gear.
I said first gear, which the 1LE is 2.66.
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