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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 06-12-2013, 04:55 PM   #1
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Plans for LS3 rebuild

Hi Guys, so I'm still sitting on my hands waiting for the verdict from the machine shop regarding forensics on my poor LS3 . Paying for a rental for weeks on end...hurts like hell.

Whatever the outcome, I need to think about next steps. I've been mulling over a 418 stroker build given that the whole damn thing is apart anyways...seems like a good excuse to do some heavy modification. Another thought is that I should just get it back together with a blower cam and think about going the whipple route. The thought of continuously sinking money into this thing irks the hell out of me. For pure cost effectiveness it's hard to gauge as a well built 418 can tangle with 600ish hp...and a SC can achieve the same.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:15 PM   #2
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I think you're going to need a high CR 418 to get anywhere close to 600 RWHP N/A. I'd be curious to know what combinations of pistons and milling people have done to get there.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:41 PM   #3
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NA will require those TFs heads, a well built 416, fast 102/102, -xx valve relieved pistons for a nice big cam.

On a mustang dyno I'm 545 on a dyno jet about ~595 with my set up. I'd have more if I could afford those tfs's lol.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:42 PM   #4
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What happened to your engine?
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litle88 View Post
NA will require those TFs heads, a well built 416, fast 102/102, -xx valve relieved pistons for a nice big cam.

On a mustang dyno I'm 545 on a dyno jet about ~595 with my set up. I'd have more if I could afford those tfs's lol.
Did you put in -xx dished pistons or did you flycut the pistons? Let's say someone wanted to get around 12.5:1 CR. The 4" stroke gets you quite a ways. Where do you get the extra compression if you mill 0.0xx from the heads, then turn around and take 10cc out of the piston for PTV clearance? We need more details Mr. high CR! I have been pondering this lately too OP.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:28 PM   #6
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Lol well there's 2 compressions dynamic and static.

To achieve your desired compression you have to pick a piston and cam together as a whole.

With my 4.0 stroke and 65cc chambers and GM Mls gaskets and -2 cc valve reliefs and 4.0705 bore I have a 12 to one.
You can't go as far as -10 that's more of a dished piston for FI.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thahemp View Post
Did you put in -xx dished pistons or did you flycut the pistons? Let's say someone wanted to get around 12.5:1 CR. The 4" stroke gets you quite a ways. Where do you get the extra compression if you mill 0.0xx from the heads, then turn around and take 10cc out of the piston for PTV clearance? We need more details Mr. high CR! I have been pondering this lately too OP.
For 12.5:1, you would could run something like Wiseco's K448X7
5cc domed piston and just cut a little off the deck of the heads.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:31 PM   #8
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My engine is apart after the "lifter fiasco" referenced in my other threads. Still an ongoing headache. Car has been apart for 3 weeks...I'm still waiting to get word on condition of block and an idea as to why things failed. I've seen some of the more robust 416/418 builds noted for having 620/585...though spending the coin for the uber heads and intakes may be a bit down the line in the future. Maybe it's better to go the FI route and be content for now.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
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For 12.5:1, you would could run something like Wiseco's K448X7
5cc domed piston and just cut a little off the deck of the heads.
I guess I had never looked at pics of the domed pistons. They're valve-relieved too. Cool. That clears some stuff up in my head. Thanks.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravener View Post
My engine is apart after the "lifter fiasco" referenced in my other threads. Still an ongoing headache. Car has been apart for 3 weeks...I'm still waiting to get word on condition of block and an idea as to why things failed. I've seen some of the more robust 416/418 builds noted for having 620/585...though spending the coin for the uber heads and intakes may be a bit down the line in the future. Maybe it's better to go the FI route and be content for now.
Nah don't give up! That's why I was asking those questions. A little head milling and domed pistons is no big deal. Pretty sure litle is right around 12.5:1... that's why I chose that example .
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:35 PM   #11
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I said -xx because there are lots of possibilities you can go with. But not that drastic. With my -2cc I still had lots of Ptv clearance and I knew I should if gone bigger.
Here's a pic for reference

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Old 06-12-2013, 06:38 PM   #12
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Yup. There's 2 more quarters worth! You must have gone home instead of big that day.
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:09 PM   #13
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Lol
Here's a good place to get info.
http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravener View Post
My engine is apart after the "lifter fiasco" referenced in my other threads. Still an ongoing headache. Car has been apart for 3 weeks...I'm still waiting to get word on condition of block and an idea as to why things failed. I've seen some of the more robust 416/418 builds noted for having 620/585...though spending the coin for the uber heads and intakes may be a bit down the line in the future. Maybe it's better to go the FI route and be content for now.
Yea I remember now!

Next time use morel/lunati lifters bud along with more phosphate/zinc in your oil. Good set of BTR springs set up correctly and correctly measures pushrods. Not that you didn't do it the first time. But I hope it turns out better bud.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:49 PM   #15
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You can still make great power with stock heads and a 416". With the bigger displacement you can run a larger cam and still maintain driveability. I bet you could make more power with a decent compression/big cam stroker with stock heads then a H/C 376.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:28 PM   #16
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Stay NA, nothing sounds better than a big NA engine. Anyone can do a blown engine.

T.

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Yea I remember now!

Next time use morel/lunati lifters bud along with more phosphate/zinc in your oil. Good set of BTR springs set up correctly and correctly measures pushrods. Not that you didn't do it the first time. But I hope it turns out better bud.
Yeah I was playing with that this morning trying to get things where I would want them... I got myself confused when I saw the pistons were giving up as much material as I thought I would be taking off the heads. Seemed to cancel each other out. Just inexperience!
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:07 AM   #18
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My vote would be re use stock crank, forged pistons and rods, 9.8-10.1 compression, mild blower cam and a Whipple. Would make a easy 700RWHP while being reliable. Just make sure the block checks out from top to bottom including the lifter bores. You could also do it in stages as money allows. Build the motor now for boost while its apart and add the Whipple later.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:49 PM   #19
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I'm running stock cubes on a stock crank, Mahle 10.1 pistons, Manley H beam rods etc with a whipple at 732rwhp!
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:41 PM   #20
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I'm running stock cubes on a stock crank, Mahle 10.1 pistons, Manley H beam rods etc with a whipple at 732rwhp!
Case in point. The OP is not gonna make that kind of power with a NA 416.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:03 AM   #21
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Not 700s obviously na, but don't discourage big hp na builds.it's a different game.
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:31 PM   #22
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...still waiting for cost estimates from machine shop. Builder has indicated that the failure was likely due to an oiling problem, most likely attributed to previous installation from what they've found.

At this point, if the cost to machine the block, replace the cam, crank (which is junked) is close to what I'd fork over for a 418 short block...I may as well suck it up since either way I'm out of a ride for a month given ordering/assembly/delivery times...not to mention install time. Dammit!

I'd actually toyed with the idea of going FI and just getting the motor back to stockish (with some mods to support FI of course) but that would be even more mental I think...
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:58 PM   #23
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Hang in there bud! Lots of us have all been there. A broken valve spring cause me too go down two years! For my 416 in my 4th gen lol this is what we do lol

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Old 06-14-2013, 06:03 PM   #24
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Obviously your motor was never set up right to begin with..... twice. I hope you go with another builder this time.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:52 PM   #25
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Aye, another builder indeed. The current plan is to build a 418 stroker. We can get close to 600 rwhp without going mental N/A...leaving some options open for future mods like FI.

I admit however that I'm pretty bitter about my previous experiences so far. A lot of the fun factor has worn off for now...
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