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Old 06-16-2013, 02:47 PM   #18
kd4hey
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Having traded my 1LT for a 2SS/RS, after the increase in Permagrin producing HP & Torque, the first thing I noticed was the harsher ride due to the sportier suspension.

My only wish is the SS had the tunable suspension of the ZL1 to smooth out all the bumps. But overall, no regrets!
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:49 PM   #19
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This does seem like a fair review as someone who has switched from a 2010 2LT to a 2013 2SS. I was very disappointed at the low end throttle response on my SS until I got a ported throttle body and did a fuse pull. I can't wait until I get a cold air intake to further improve the response (waiting on Cold Rush to be released to compare to CAI/Rotofab, plus I've spent too much $ lately on other mods).

However, one thing is that the 2013 SS did seem to handle better than my 2010 2LT, it seems like the FE4 suspension does make a difference. Does the electric power steering in the 2013 offer any handling advantages vs the 2012 SS?

Both the LT and SS are way too quiet from the factory, so a new axle back exhaust at the very least is needed to wake up the sound (or muffler delete on the SS).

Oh yeah, Active Fuel Management sucks donkey balls, the Range device or a tune is a must for the L99 ;p. AFM was another reason I was initially disappointed in my SS. It should have ONLY been enabled in D mode from the factory FFS.
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:05 PM   #20
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21 tickets in two years lol
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:28 PM   #21
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I've had plenty of fast cars (my current SS, 2 WS6's, 2 350Z's, etc) and the only recent ticket I got was in my V6 Camaro - go figure.

If you have self control, having a fast car does not = tickets/speeding/driving like a jackass. I haven't had my SS (or any of my other cars) to the track and probably won't. However (TO ME) the V6 is just not enough oompf for my liking.

BTW I had torque management tuned out (along with some other minor changes) and it makes a HUGE difference in throttle response and low end power


BTW: Nice write-up OP and congrats on the upgrade!
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
The throttle response on the SS model sucks socks

Any low-end torque needed for this very heavy car is essentially emasculated...and a pushrod V8 is an engine I expect low end torque from.
???? The total opposite is true on my 2010 SS. The biggest adjustment I had to make when I got it was learning to really ease into the throttle. Otherwise it was constant whiplash
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
What's your experience here? Firstly I never said it was a dog, although the argument has some validity. I said the throttle response sucked. These cars are not beasts.

The LS3 makes it's peak torque around 4500 rpm. That is not "a lot" of torque- 420 lb/ft. Maybe in the year 2013 we've forgotten what a "lot" of torque is. 510 lb/ft at 2200 rpm. That's a lot of tire-roasting torque under your foot. The LS3's 420 lb/ft is also not in the "low end" of the curve. If the car weighed 3000 lbs it might be a lot of torque. And if the rpm it made peak torque at was less than 3000 I could see the argument that we are approaching 'low end'. But neither is the case. I also expect a lazy gas pedal with a badly tuned carburetor, not with fuel injection.

The Camaro SS weighs about 4000 lbs. At around 2500 rpm, you're making a fairly small, 350-370 lb/ft. And that's what's motivating the heavy car from low rpm.

The peak torque is not available to get the vehicle moving at low rpms, such as you see from a stop or in a slow traffic situation. Now couple that with the lethargic throttle response.

We, or at least I, did not have the luxury of choosing a different rear gear, which would mitigate the issue, although at the cost of maximum fuel economy.
Why didnt you get a Zl1?
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkneSS View Post
I had my V6 for 3 years and 50,000 miles (49,345) and yesterday I traded up to a 2SS/RS. I figured I'd post my honest review as it might be helpful to someone.

As far as the exterior goes, the cars looked comically identical when I arrived at the dealer. My signature is actually my V6 so you can see what I'm talking about. I was unwilling to give up my beautiful Euro meshs so I offered the dealer a deal, they could swap the SS's stock rims to my 6, and put my rims on the SS.

The real visual differences happened getting into the car. My 6 was a 1LT with just the RS package and a spare tire. So going to what appears to be a nearly fully loaded 2SS is a giant leap. My 1LT interior now seems quite incomplete in comparison. Leather seats, heated seats, leather wrapped steering wheel and shifter, bluetooth with steering wheel controls, door lighting, Boston sound, what a massive difference. I never needed any of these things, and was happy without them, but this is one of those once you try it you can't go back scenarios.

The SS handles the same, as it should. It does seem tighter than the stock V6 suspension but it is not a night and day difference. I had BMR springs on the V6 that will go on my SS when I get the chance, I imagine it will still handle the same.

The V6 brakes much shorter than the 8, I could tell that immediately. However the pedal feel is softer and mushy making it difficult to achieve precision without a lot of seat time. The SS brakes are more precise and the pedal feels stiff and thus more sporty.

Interestingly there is also a big difference in gas pedal feel, not necessarily power related. The SS requires you press the pedal slightly more to achieve more than about 5-10% throttle. The 6 doesn't have this sort of "deadzone." I'm assuming it must be a sort of safety feature on the SS because once you press that pedal far enough, the kraken is released.

This thing PULLS. The V6 LLT legitimately pulls you and your passenger into your seats. The V8 LS3 however smashes you in. The difference will put a huge smile on an enthusiast's face, no doubt. It really scares you at higher MPH because you really start to feel it pulling your body into the seat and you realize how insanely fast it can go. The 6 creeps up to higher MPH and gives you a chance to think about what you are doing, the SS DOES NOT.

So all in all, if you can afford it and you are a person who likes to go fast, the SS is your car.

I must say though, if you don't drive like you're in the fast and the furious and speed isn't too big a deal for you, the V6 is probably actually the better car overall. A loaded up 2LT RS should be just fine for the average driver. The SS is really for the person who tinkers with their car every weekend, who doesn't know how many times they've been to the track, or how many tickets they have gotten...

Very good review!
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:03 PM   #25
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Very good review! I would like to have sn SS but I there's no way I trade my v6! But I'm looking for payoff my v6 and get a SS or if I can use ZL1... and keep my v6 for wifey!
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:51 PM   #26
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Congrats! I know what you mean about the throttle response. It's probably worse on the auto than the LS3. It really feels like you have to push the pedal a lot in order for anything to happen. That's easily fixed with a throttle body and CAI. The stock L99 is in dire need of a good dyno tune, also. I'm sure the LS3 is a lot better out of the box. Enjoy!
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkneSS View Post
I had my V6 for 3 years and 50,000 miles (49,345) and yesterday I traded up to a 2SS/RS. I figured I'd post my honest review as it might be helpful to someone.

As far as the exterior goes, the cars looked comically identical when I arrived at the dealer. My signature is actually my V6 so you can see what I'm talking about. I was unwilling to give up my beautiful Euro meshs so I offered the dealer a deal, they could swap the SS's stock rims to my 6, and put my rims on the SS.

The real visual differences happened getting into the car. My 6 was a 1LT with just the RS package and a spare tire. So going to what appears to be a nearly fully loaded 2SS is a giant leap. My 1LT interior now seems quite incomplete in comparison. Leather seats, heated seats, leather wrapped steering wheel and shifter, bluetooth with steering wheel controls, door lighting, Boston sound, what a massive difference. I never needed any of these things, and was happy without them, but this is one of those once you try it you can't go back scenarios.

The SS handles the same, as it should. It does seem tighter than the stock V6 suspension but it is not a night and day difference. I had BMR springs on the V6 that will go on my SS when I get the chance, I imagine it will still handle the same.

The V6 brakes much shorter than the 8, I could tell that immediately. However the pedal feel is softer and mushy making it difficult to achieve precision without a lot of seat time. The SS brakes are more precise and the pedal feels stiff and thus more sporty.

Interestingly there is also a big difference in gas pedal feel, not necessarily power related. The SS requires you press the pedal slightly more to achieve more than about 5-10% throttle. The 6 doesn't have this sort of "deadzone." I'm assuming it must be a sort of safety feature on the SS because once you press that pedal far enough, the kraken is released.

This thing PULLS. The V6 LLT legitimately pulls you and your passenger into your seats. The V8 LS3 however smashes you in. The difference will put a huge smile on an enthusiast's face, no doubt. It really scares you at higher MPH because you really start to feel it pulling your body into the seat and you realize how insanely fast it can go. The 6 creeps up to higher MPH and gives you a chance to think about what you are doing, the SS DOES NOT.

So all in all, if you can afford it and you are a person who likes to go fast, the SS is your car.

I must say though, if you don't drive like you're in the fast and the furious and speed isn't too big a deal for you, the V6 is probably actually the better car overall. A loaded up 2LT RS should be just fine for the average driver. The SS is really for the person who tinkers with their car every weekend, who doesn't know how many times they've been to the track, or how many tickets they have gotten...



Best post I seen in awhile I went and test drove a ss and felt the same way you felt. It wasn't a needed upgrade for me. I don't go to race tracks and race and I have a 2LT. All I need and I enjoy it every day
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkneSS View Post
I had my V6 for 3 years and 50,000 miles (49,345) and yesterday I traded up to a 2SS/RS. I figured I'd post my honest review as it might be helpful to someone.

As far as the exterior goes, the cars looked comically identical when I arrived at the dealer. My signature is actually my V6 so you can see what I'm talking about. I was unwilling to give up my beautiful Euro meshs so I offered the dealer a deal, they could swap the SS's stock rims to my 6, and put my rims on the SS.

The real visual differences happened getting into the car. My 6 was a 1LT with just the RS package and a spare tire. So going to what appears to be a nearly fully loaded 2SS is a giant leap. My 1LT interior now seems quite incomplete in comparison. Leather seats, heated seats, leather wrapped steering wheel and shifter, bluetooth with steering wheel controls, door lighting, Boston sound, what a massive difference. I never needed any of these things, and was happy without them, but this is one of those once you try it you can't go back scenarios.

The SS handles the same, as it should. It does seem tighter than the stock V6 suspension but it is not a night and day difference. I had BMR springs on the V6 that will go on my SS when I get the chance, I imagine it will still handle the same.

The V6 brakes much shorter than the 8, I could tell that immediately. However the pedal feel is softer and mushy making it difficult to achieve precision without a lot of seat time. The SS brakes are more precise and the pedal feels stiff and thus more sporty.

Interestingly there is also a big difference in gas pedal feel, not necessarily power related. The SS requires you press the pedal slightly more to achieve more than about 5-10% throttle. The 6 doesn't have this sort of "deadzone." I'm assuming it must be a sort of safety feature on the SS because once you press that pedal far enough, the kraken is released.

This thing PULLS. The V6 LLT legitimately pulls you and your passenger into your seats. The V8 LS3 however smashes you in. The difference will put a huge smile on an enthusiast's face, no doubt. It really scares you at higher MPH because you really start to feel it pulling your body into the seat and you realize how insanely fast it can go. The 6 creeps up to higher MPH and gives you a chance to think about what you are doing, the SS DOES NOT.

So all in all, if you can afford it and you are a person who likes to go fast, the SS is your car.

I must say though, if you don't drive like you're in the fast and the furious and speed isn't too big a deal for you, the V6 is probably actually the better car overall. A loaded up 2LT RS should be just fine for the average driver. The SS is really for the person who tinkers with their car every weekend, who doesn't know how many times they've been to the track, or how many tickets they have gotten...
yup...v6 is totally the better car
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:13 PM   #29
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And it begins.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:39 PM   #30
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Good review. I upgraded after a year with the v6, but I did LOVE the v6. It is an amazing car. Just can't wait to get headers and a tune for my ls3. I'm excited for these new triple y header thing a ma bobs that people are talking about.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:47 PM   #31
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I did the exact same thing at the 3 year mark. Loved my 2LT RS but decided it was time to trade up to the roar of the SS. That was a year ago and have no regrets on both owning my 2LT or trading up.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:56 AM   #32
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Great review OP!

Congrats on your SS, welcome to the Permagrin club.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:06 AM   #33
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To the original post, I would assume the starting dead zone on your new Camaro is the "Hill Assist". I had rental Toureg recently that had hill assist and I didn't like it one bit. I have 2011 2LT manual and thought hill assist would be nice, but not now.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkneSS View Post
I had my V6 for 3 years and 50,000 miles (49,345) and yesterday I traded up to a 2SS/RS. I figured I'd post my honest review as it might be helpful to someone.

The SS handles the same, as it should. It does seem tighter than the stock V6 suspension but it is not a night and day difference. I had BMR springs on the V6 that will go on my SS when I get the chance, I imagine it will still handle the same.

The V6 brakes much shorter than the 8, I could tell that immediately. However the pedal feel is softer and mushy making it difficult to achieve precision without a lot of seat time. The SS brakes are more precise and the pedal feels stiff and thus more sporty.

Interestingly there is also a big difference in gas pedal feel, not necessarily power related. The SS requires you press the pedal slightly more to achieve more than about 5-10% throttle. The 6 doesn't have this sort of "deadzone." I'm assuming it must be a sort of safety feature on the SS because once you press that pedal far enough, the kraken is released.

This thing PULLS. The V6 LLT legitimately pulls you and your passenger into your seats. The V8 LS3 however smashes you in. The difference will put a huge smile on an enthusiast's face, no doubt. It really scares you at higher MPH because you really start to feel it pulling your body into the seat and you realize how insanely fast it can go. The 6 creeps up to higher MPH and gives you a chance to think about what you are doing, the SS DOES NOT.

So all in all, if you can afford it and you are a person who likes to go fast, the SS is your car.

I must say though, if you don't drive like you're in the fast and the furious and speed isn't too big a deal for you, the V6 is probably actually the better car overall. A loaded up 2LT RS should be just fine for the average driver. The SS is really for the person who tinkers with their car every weekend, who doesn't know how many times they've been to the track, or how many tickets they have gotten...
When I rented an identical SS (fully loaded like mine), I had the same experiences. You had to press it further down to get that 5% power but it was plenty.
The V6 has a delay, not a dead zone but the ported throttle body fixes that.

But you must respect SS's power. If are not used to that power and floor it, you will go from 15 to 50 mph in just 3 or so seconds. Gotta be able to react quick enough.

When cruising the streets, the SS behaved almost the exactly the same as the V6 but with a *feel* of less low range than I would have expected probably due to extra weight (dunno). Turning was ok to me.
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