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Old 06-18-2013, 11:25 AM   #18
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I run diesel in mine no difference in performance and I get great mileage
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:44 AM   #19
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Problem with running low quality low octane gasoline is your car will be locked into low octane mode even if you decide to run 91+ so you will not feel a difference in power since you are still running timing for low octane. You would have to a fuse pull every fill up of higher quality higher octane fuel.

I locked mine in high octane mode all the time. It never runs lower timing.

This post I made in a fuse pull thread but it still explains why people that run shit gas don't feel the power increase when running better gas. There IS a difference.

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There is two octane timing tables.
High octane table Low octane

High octane will have the most advance timing under part throttle and wide open throttle.
Which will give you the most horsepower and torque.

Low octane will be the lowest advance timing under part and wide open throttle.
There will be a reduction in power on this mode.

What the PCM does is watch the knock sensor to determine what mode to use. If you have good gas, 91 or above. The engine can run the high octane map without knocking or needing to reduce timing. What happens when you run lower quality gas like 89 or below, or maybe even low quality 91. You can and will start to knock, it will not be something you will hear but the PCM will notice and reduce timing to an appropriate amount to protect the engine from pre destination or knock. If the PCM logs that it is pulling timing for extended amounts of time or pulling timing severely enough, the PCM will go to the Low Octane table to reduce the maximum amount of timing to combat the knock from the lower octane fuel. This will cause a drop in power as well.
What the camaro does as soon as your PCM moves to the Lower Octane table it will NOT move back. So you could be driving it around with high octane fuel in the tank but the pcm is still in low octane mode. If this happens you won't have the extra power or benefit of high octane fuel.
When you pull the fuse it allows the PCM to reset and it will use the high octane mode until it needs to switch again.

I dumbed it down so I hope it still makes sense.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:52 AM   #20
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:54 AM   #21
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Personally I did not buy the Camaro to pinch pennies, I prefer to work my butt off so I can always treat her nice. Wouldn't running 87 octaine also gunk your engine up more because it is not burning off at the rate of 93?

As far as 87 in the 93 slot at the pumps, you're using the same pump to obtain 3 different octaines of gas, you will get some left over of what the person before used. As well I suppose it is possible to get all 87 when paying for 93, have you never gotten a Sprite in a vending machine when you clicked for a Coke?
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:02 PM   #22
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Here's the thread (page 2 towards the bottom): http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302162

I'm not trying to call this guy out (suzook), but he claims he runs 87 in his SS all the time because most gas stations have 87 in their 93 pumps anyways. Also, he claims it doesn't make that big of a difference in performance.... You buy a $45 SS, then fill it with 87 to pinch a few pennies?
You know you contradicted yourself there. Anyways, I would just run 93.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:11 PM   #23
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You know you contradicted yourself there. Anyways, I would just run 93.
How did I contradict myself? I gave a brief synopsis of the topic and asked what others thought of this member's logic.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:13 PM   #24
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Saying most filling stations use 87 in all their tanks is a myth. There are some no doubt, BUT...

There are VERY tight restrictions and if a station is caught doing that or giving less fuel than advertised for the price, the fines are HUGE and the state can shut them down.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:24 PM   #25
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If 91-93 is too expensive to put in your Camaro, then more then likely the Camaro is too expensive as well..
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:25 PM   #26
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And yours is locked in low octane mode....on one of the fill ups you THINK is premium. Do you do a fuse pull every month? If not, your probably at low octane mode now.

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Originally Posted by KlugSS View Post
Problem with running low quality low octane gasoline is your car will be locked into low octane mode even if you decide to run 91+ so you will not feel a difference in power since you are still running timing for low octane. You would have to a fuse pull every fill up of higher quality higher octane fuel.

I locked mine in high octane mode all the time. It never runs lower timing.

This post I made in a fuse pull thread but it still explains why people that run shit gas don't feel the power increase when running better gas. There IS a difference.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:44 PM   #27
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And yours is locked in low octane mode....on one of the fill ups you THINK is premium. Do you do a fuse pull every month? If not, your probably at low octane mode now.
I don't pull the fuse. I used hp tuners to copy the high octane timing map over to the low octane table. That way it's always running the timing for higher octane fuel even if it switches maps.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:44 PM   #28
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Side question: Do the 2013's still need a fuse pull when 87 is run? Or was it only a problem on the 10-12s?
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:54 PM   #29
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I don't pull the fuse. I used hp tuners to copy the high octane timing map over to the low octane table. That way it's always running the timing for higher octane fuel even if it switches maps.
So, in the scenario that Suzook presented (87 octane fuel coming out of a 91/93 octane pump), you're running a high-octane map with low-octane fuel?

You crazy.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:55 PM   #30
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10.7:1 Static compression is way too high on a non overlap cam to run 87.

Static compression is the difference in cylinder volume between the bottom of the stroke and the top. It does not correlate directly to the actual compression your engine is making. You toss in a cam with a lot of duration and overlap and you need to up your compression ratio to compensate for all the loss caused by your piston being on its way back up before both valves are shut and then actually starting to squeeze the air fuel mixture. Then you have volumetric efficiency to factor in. that is how well your engine fills the cylinder on it's suction stroke. Look on comp cams website, once you start getting into the big cams they spec a minimum 11.5:1 static compression.

So you put a big duration cam in the Camaro you may be able to run lower octane fuel as your actual compression may be down. The stock LS3 has no overlap and high volumetric efficiency, gonna squeeze all of that 10.7:1, needs at least 91 to avoid detonation.

You run 89 or 97 and your engine is going to pull timing and add fuel to avoid detonation. This leads to lower performance and mileage.

I have the L9H 6.2 in my truck. I read on another forum (Chevy truck forum) of a user who ran 89 in his truck and recorded the data and then switched to 91. The mileage increase covered the extra cost of the fuel. Not to mention the weeee factor of having peak performance. I ran the same test myself and got the same results. The truck was also noticeably more sluggish. Never ran the test with 87, that would be stupid on a high compression motor.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:56 PM   #31
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Side question: Do the 2013's still need a fuse pull when 87 is run? Or was it only a problem on the 10-12s?
I don't see why anything would be different. I don't think it's just a camaro thing either.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:03 PM   #32
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So, in the scenario that Suzook presented (87 octane fuel coming out of a 91/93 octane pump), you're running a high-octane map with low-octane fuel?

You crazy.
It's still on a factory timing table, it's not aggressive at all. I wouldn't worry about it one bit. Besides that, GM had perfected their knock sensors long time ago and I have faith in them. This isn't the only vehicle I do this with. Plus how many people put 87 in then go do WOT passes.

I have never seen enough knock on a factory high octane map when running 87 to care.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:07 PM   #33
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It's still on a factory timing table, it's not aggressive at all. I wouldn't worry about it one bit. Besides that, GM had perfected their knock sensors long time ago and I have faith in them. This isn't the only vehicle I do this with. Plus how many people put 87 in then go do WOT passes.

I have never seen enough knock on a factory high octane map when running 87 to care.
Interesting. I'll look into that further.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:32 PM   #34
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It's still on a factory timing table, it's not aggressive at all. I wouldn't worry about it one bit. Besides that, GM had perfected their knock sensors long time ago and I have faith in them. This isn't the only vehicle I do this with. Plus how many people put 87 in then go do WOT passes.

I have never seen enough knock on a factory high octane map when running 87 to care.
Another reason 87 won't hurt the motor. I'm not "knocking" anyone...that's why we have choices. I haven't seen a motor damaged due to engine knock in many years...it just doesn't happen on modern street cars anymore.
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