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Old 06-18-2013, 01:44 PM   #1
1sikss
 
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1 inch drop help

so im dropping my 2011 camaro ss tomorrow 1 inch wit hotchkis springs..
i know about re timing the bushings but is there anything else's i need to be aware of that might be a problem while doing it??

first time dropping a car so i would appreciate any advise..

i have most instructions that were on the forum but they don't use hotchkis springs..
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:49 PM   #2
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Springs are VERY easy. Done many sets.

Nothing to really watch out for. Make sure you have a spring compressor. You "can" do without as they aren't under that much compression but I'd get one.

When you unbolt the struts from the front, use a large open ended wrench on the nut and on on the bolt. Those are the hardest to remove.

You want a 15mm I believe ratcheting wrench for the rear. A socket won't fit and it will annoy you if the wrench doesn't rachet!
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Chubby View Post
Springs are VERY easy. Done many sets.

Nothing to really watch out for. Make sure you have a spring compressor. You "can" do without as they aren't under that much compression but I'd get one.

When you unbolt the struts from the front, use a large open ended wrench on the nut and on on the bolt. Those are the hardest to remove.

You want a 15mm I believe ratcheting wrench for the rear. A socket won't fit and it will annoy you if the wrench doesn't rachet!
thanks for the info what about alignment would i have any issues wen taking it to any shop like firestone or ntb
and did u time the bushings on the cars u have done?
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:58 PM   #4
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Any alignment shop can do it. I took my personal car to the dealer but the tech is a friend and he gave me a custom alignment, not just a computer one that meets certain thresholds.

No never, but it wouldn't hurt.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Chubby View Post
Any alignment shop can do it. I took my personal car to the dealer but the tech is a friend and he gave me a custom alignment, not just a computer one that meets certain thresholds.

No never, but it wouldn't hurt.
nice i wish i had some peeps like that a the dealer lol... and do you need any alignment spec sheets like some ppl say...

I'm thinking of seeing how it rides first before timing them
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 1sikss View Post
nice i wish i had some peeps like that a the dealer lol... and do you need any alignment spec sheets like some ppl say...

I'm thinking of seeing how it rides first before timing them
Timing the bushes is not an optional part of the installation process. If you skip that step you get a half-axxed installation. Here is the information you and your alignment shop need.


Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs


Do NOT use camber adjusting offset bolts on the Camaro



If you want to put them on your Honda or Subie it is up to you. They are not as strong as the OEM clevis bolts and are absolutely necessary on a 5th Gen Camaro. It is in the

This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosy) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut. It is a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread.



Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag. It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut. If they don't, they have a guy that can push or pull on the wheel while they tighten it. Never, ever use those lame camber eccentric bolts on a Camaro. EVER!



Anyone that tells you different, have them call me

Pedders foundation as a company is more than just a range of bits, we are Suspension specialists committed to delivering a Pedders Driving Experience. A lowered vehicle should have a full range of alignment adjustments. The Camaro delivers from Chevrolet with a fixed Castor position. The radius arm bolts into round holes with no available adjustment. Front Camber is adjustable from the factory. There is a threaded hole for front Camber Adjustment Bolt / Screw, but no bolt is installed and no part number is listed by Chevrolet. The rear OEM eccentric adjusters for Toe and Camber provide approximately one degree adjustment range. For an alignment specialist, this is unacceptable. You want to get your Camaro perfectly setup. This is what Pedders is all about. Our solution is a set of cadmium plated eXtreme Alignment Bolts. While GM made the hole round for the front Castor Adjustment or lack thereof, they did weld in brackets for an eccentric to work against. Your local Pedders Dealer can create a slot to provide Castor adjustment with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolts. The kit provides the front Camber screws that GM didn't.



For the 5th Camaro, GM decided to produce the front sub-frame with only a round hole, but they kept the 'fences' for caster adjustment with eccentric bolts just like th Pontiac G8 and Holden Commodore. The slots to allow adjustment were lost in translation. For a performance driver, a vehicle without full alignment adjustment capability feels like driving with one hand tied behind your back. Pedders made the decision to make the Camaro front suspension fully adjustable.

Stock Radius Bush Mounting area with a round hole and adjustment 'fences'.



Step one requires the technician to drill two holes in the bracket.



Step two requires CAREFUL GRINDING. We use the two holes to make the grinding process more accurate while the technician creates a slot. The eccentric that will be used does not reach all the way to the bracket sides so a bit of excess metal is not an issue. The technician can check the clearance with a Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolt as they grind to make sure the fit is Pedders Perfect.



When assembled the Cadmium plated eccentric allows the alignment technician to increase or decrease Castor. A fully Pedderised Camaro with good tires will not require ANY BIAS in the alignment. We can do a road course style alignment and your Camaro will not pull. This is because the Pedders component have made the suspension more stable by reducing excess motion. Should your Camaro be tweaked and develop a pull the same Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolts can be used to create a bias to correct the pull. We strongly recommend that before you alter your alignment due to a pull that you have a qualified technician, because the machine is only as good as the tech, check your tires on a road force balance machine to make certain the pull is not induced by a tire. We will adjust them on the alignment rack. Here is the installed eccentric.



Alignments are Pedders core business so we decided to make the front camber screw part of the Camaro Alignment Bolt Kit. To install the Pedders Front Camber Screw it is essential that you use LocTite Blue. The Camber screw will never bear a load while driving, but we want to make certain they never vibrate out. LocTite Blue is ideal for this.



Pedders Rear Eccentrics are virtually bullet proof with approximately 2 degrees or double the factory adjustment. With the Camaro alignment Kit installed your Camaro can be setup for the drag strip, road course, auto cross or every day flawless driving. Even better, Pedders alignment eccentric bolts carry a unique warranty feature. Should a Pedders eccentric ever fail while you own the vehicle we will replace it. You get a superior alignment, improved driving experience and a life time warranty with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolt kits.

To get the aggressive alignment we prefer Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.



Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.



We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.



Taking the performance of your 5th Gen and alignment to the next level requires the use of Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates. With the stock front struts or Pedders coilovers you can achieve -2.2 Degrees of front camber. Relieving the upper slot in the strut to allow it to fall in a bit more will get you to -2.5. When running high negative camber it is Mission Critical to check spacing between the inner tire sidewall and the strut or coilover. We use a standard #2 lead pencil as a gauge. If the pencil passes between the tire and the strut or coilover you are good to go. With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates we suggest you run them full in, maxed out for negative camber. Positioning the stut top well in toward the engine improves SAI. Your 5th Gen will drive better. Final adjust the negative camber at the knuckle using the camber adjustment screw.

Maxed out for Negative Camber



Neutral Position i.e. The same position as the OEM Mount.



FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 / Pedderised Hardcore Track Alignment with Appropriate Tires

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -3.5 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and NO Strut Tower Bar.
Camber : -4.00 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and a Strut Tower Bar
Toe: OUT 0.50
Total Toe OUT 1.00

Rear
Camber -0.80
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit and Dual Bearing Cambers Plates are Required.

Bush Timing

Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it.

Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts:
Front:
---Inner Control Arm Bushing
---Inner Radius Rod
Rear:
---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends)
---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends)
---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner)
---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward)
---Lower Strut Bushings

Step 3.
Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift.

Step 4.
With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec.

Step 5.
Align the car at the new ride height.

Alignment




Front and Rear Bolt Torque Values




NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are usually TTY and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:01 PM   #7
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i would go to an alignment professional and stay away from tire shops... pic a spec you want out of Mr. Petes worksheet and say dooo iiittt!
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Timing the bushes is not an optional part of the installation process. If you skip that step you get a half-axxed installation. Here is the information you and your alignment shop need.



NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are usually TTY and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite.
wow you just made me confused what is all that of cutting holes i thought you just put the spring in and bolt it back up and time the bushings.. I'm not trying to align it my self these are just hotchkis springs not coil overs
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:11 PM   #9
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The alignment information if for the alignment technician. Use the FE3 Aggressive Street.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:13 PM   #10
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i would go to an alignment professional and stay away from tire shops... pic a spec you want out of Mr. Petes worksheet and say dooo iiittt!
so you don't thing fire stone would be able to align the car wit the 1 inch drop???

and what specs are u talking about
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The alignment information if for the alignment technician. Use the FE3 Aggressive Street.
even for springs its the same than coil overs.... also since there hotchkins is it the same
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
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so you don't thing fire stone would be able to align the car wit the 1 inch drop???

and what specs are u talking about
not saying they wont...just odds of probability. I like professional technicians to touch my car in only their field of expertise. May or may not be applicable to you.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:19 PM   #13
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Aahhhhh crapola. Is it a must to install your alignment kit? Or is that only for those that are looking to track thier car. I know you said 1 degree is unacceptable for the alignment specialist. But, can the correct alignment be achieved with the stock clevis bolts for street driving? I just did a full bush install and a 1le diff. Wish I would have done the camber bolt at that time.

Wish I was closer to you guys also. I call the "performance" suspension shops by me and they act like I am speaking in tongues. And then they say... Oh you have performance mods done that is going to cost more.

Sorry to thread jack OP. But if you have it apart you may want to install there alignment kit.... Like I didn't.

Pete, for reference, what would a alignment and bush time cost for your shop. Assuming I install the alignment kit. Thank you for all your advice!
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:27 PM   #14
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It is not a must to use Pedders extended range alignment eccentrics.

With a 1" drop, most 5th Gens will get to -0.8 to -0.5 Negative rear camber. Drops greater than 1" result in higher rear negative camber. Having an extra full degree of adjustment over the OE eccentric allows the alignment tech more range with the rear camber adjustment.

From the factory, there is no caster adjustment. To increase caster there are two options. One is to install Pedders caster bolts and the other to install brand-x caster camber plates. Pedders eccentrics provide 1 degree of additional caster. The brand-x caster camber plates can provide 1 degree of additional caster, but then no additional camber. Using Pedders eccentrics and Pedders dual bearing camber plates provides 1 degree of additional caster and two degrees of additional camber.

Does this help?
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairzee View Post
Aahhhhh crapola. Is it a must to install your alignment kit? Or is that only for those that are looking to track thier car. I know you said 1 degree is unacceptable for the alignment specialist. But, can the correct alignment be achieved with the stock clevis bolts for street driving? I just did a full bush install and a 1le diff. Wish I would have done the camber bolt at that time.

Wish I was closer to you guys also. I call the "performance" suspension shops by me and they act like I am speaking in tongues. And then they say... Oh you have performance mods done that is going to cost more.

Sorry to thread jack OP. But if you have it apart you may want to install there alignment kit.... Like I didn't.

Pete, for reference, what would a alignment and bush time cost for your shop. Assuming I install the alignment kit. Thank you for all your advice!
Have you tried Haddad Motorsports in Inglewood? Mike knows his stuff.
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by hairzee View Post

Pete, for reference, what would a alignment and bush time cost for your shop. Assuming I install the alignment kit. Thank you for all your advice!
Opps I missed this. A tight spec Pedders alignment books at 90 minutes. You can do a standard green range alignment in 30 minutes. It takes longer to get to exact matching numbers. 90 minutes is a good average. Bush timing is an hour or less. Lift the car to loosen the bolts. Lower it. Drive around the parking lot and onto the alignment rack. Tighten the bolts that aren't used for the alignment and then start the alignment. 2 1/2 hours of shop time more than covers the work. Those familiar with Camaro work will be between 90 minutes and two hours.

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Have you tried Haddad Motorsports in Inglewood? Mike knows his stuff.
Great shop. Great guy. Mike Haddad gets it.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:55 PM   #17
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yes that helps a lot.

I forgot about Haddad I will give him a call.

I would like to get the gears broken in before I tear into it again. The camber bolts look like something a do it yourselfer could do.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:25 PM   #18
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As I was driving home thinking about these camber bolts I spotted this dude and had to share.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:06 PM   #19
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So I just put eibach springs and sways on and I'm sitting at the dealer for the alignment. I asked about the bush timing, but evidently to them it is far more complicated than just loosening bolts and re-tightening them, like 3 hours of work! Not to mention double the cost of the alignment. At this point I trust the dealer more than any shops nearby and I need the car ASAP. I told them just to do the alignment for now, since I have to drive 70 miles to work for a few days starting tomorrow.

How important really is the bush timing? After getting the alignment done can I do it myself on ramps? I think I have correct size tools, the lift is really the only barrier.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:49 PM   #20
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Print this out and hand it to them.


Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs


Do NOT use camber adjusting offset bolts on the Camaro



If you want to put them on your Honda or Subie it is up to you. They are not as strong as the OEM clevis bolts and are absolutely necessary on a 5th Gen Camaro. It is in the

This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosy) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut. It is a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread.



Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag. It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut. If they don't, they have a guy that can push or pull on the wheel while they tighten it. Never, ever use those lame camber eccentric bolts on a Camaro. EVER!



Anyone that tells you different, have them call me

Pedders foundation as a company is more than just a range of bits, we are Suspension specialists committed to delivering a Pedders Driving Experience. A lowered vehicle should have a full range of alignment adjustments. The Camaro delivers from Chevrolet with a fixed Castor position. The radius arm bolts into round holes with no available adjustment. Front Camber is adjustable from the factory. There is a threaded hole for front Camber Adjustment Bolt / Screw, but no bolt is installed and no part number is listed by Chevrolet. The rear OEM eccentric adjusters for Toe and Camber provide approximately one degree adjustment range. For an alignment specialist, this is unacceptable. You want to get your Camaro perfectly setup. This is what Pedders is all about. Our solution is a set of cadmium plated eXtreme Alignment Bolts. While GM made the hole round for the front Castor Adjustment or lack thereof, they did weld in brackets for an eccentric to work against. Your local Pedders Dealer can create a slot to provide Castor adjustment with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolts. The kit provides the front Camber screws that GM didn't.



For the 5th Camaro, GM decided to produce the front sub-frame with only a round hole, but they kept the 'fences' for caster adjustment with eccentric bolts just like th Pontiac G8 and Holden Commodore. The slots to allow adjustment were lost in translation. For a performance driver, a vehicle without full alignment adjustment capability feels like driving with one hand tied behind your back. Pedders made the decision to make the Camaro front suspension fully adjustable.

Stock Radius Bush Mounting area with a round hole and adjustment 'fences'.



Step one requires the technician to drill two holes in the bracket.



Step two requires CAREFUL GRINDING. We use the two holes to make the grinding process more accurate while the technician creates a slot. The eccentric that will be used does not reach all the way to the bracket sides so a bit of excess metal is not an issue. The technician can check the clearance with a Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolt as they grind to make sure the fit is Pedders Perfect.



When assembled the Cadmium plated eccentric allows the alignment technician to increase or decrease Castor. A fully Pedderised Camaro with good tires will not require ANY BIAS in the alignment. We can do a road course style alignment and your Camaro will not pull. This is because the Pedders component have made the suspension more stable by reducing excess motion. Should your Camaro be tweaked and develop a pull the same Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolts can be used to create a bias to correct the pull. We strongly recommend that before you alter your alignment due to a pull that you have a qualified technician, because the machine is only as good as the tech, check your tires on a road force balance machine to make certain the pull is not induced by a tire. We will adjust them on the alignment rack. Here is the installed eccentric.



Alignments are Pedders core business so we decided to make the front camber screw part of the Camaro Alignment Bolt Kit. To install the Pedders Front Camber Screw it is essential that you use LocTite Blue. The Camber screw will never bear a load while driving, but we want to make certain they never vibrate out. LocTite Blue is ideal for this.



Pedders Rear Eccentrics are virtually bullet proof with approximately 2 degrees or double the factory adjustment. With the Camaro alignment Kit installed your Camaro can be setup for the drag strip, road course, auto cross or every day flawless driving. Even better, Pedders alignment eccentric bolts carry a unique warranty feature. Should a Pedders eccentric ever fail while you own the vehicle we will replace it. You get a superior alignment, improved driving experience and a life time warranty with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolt kits.

To get the aggressive alignment we prefer Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.



Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.



We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.



Taking the performance of your 5th Gen and alignment to the next level requires the use of Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates. With the stock front struts or Pedders coilovers you can achieve -2.2 Degrees of front camber. Relieving the upper slot in the strut to allow it to fall in a bit more will get you to -2.5. When running high negative camber it is Mission Critical to check spacing between the inner tire sidewall and the strut or coilover. We use a standard #2 lead pencil as a gauge. If the pencil passes between the tire and the strut or coilover you are good to go. With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates we suggest you run them full in, maxed out for negative camber. Positioning the stut top well in toward the engine improves SAI. Your 5th Gen will drive better. Final adjust the negative camber at the knuckle using the camber adjustment screw.

Maxed out for Negative Camber



Neutral Position i.e. The same position as the OEM Mount.



FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 / Pedderised Hardcore Track Alignment with Appropriate Tires

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -3.5 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and NO Strut Tower Bar.
Camber : -4.00 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and a Strut Tower Bar
Toe: OUT 0.50
Total Toe OUT 1.00

Rear
Camber -0.80
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit and Dual Bearing Cambers Plates are Required.

Bush Timing

Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it.

Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts:
Front:
---Inner Control Arm Bushing
---Inner Radius Rod
Rear:
---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends)
---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends)
---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner)
---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward)
---Lower Strut Bushings

Step 3.
Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift.

Step 4.
With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec.

Step 5.
Align the car at the new ride height.

Alignment




Front and Rear Bolt Torque Values




NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are usually TTY and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:55 PM   #21
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Thanks Pete!
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:42 PM   #22
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OP just have Haddad install and align. They know what they are doing. They will time the bushes also.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:50 AM   #23
TBone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPCBA View Post
i would go to an alignment professional and stay away from tire shops... pic a spec you want out of Mr. Petes worksheet and say dooo iiittt!
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Originally Posted by 1sikss View Post
so you don't thing fire stone would be able to align the car wit the 1 inch drop???

and what specs are u talking about
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Originally Posted by SPCBA View Post
not saying they wont...just odds of probability. I like professional technicians to touch my car in only their field of expertise. May or may not be applicable to you.
I guess it depends on your Firestone. Mine is a bunch of gearheads and I bought the Lifetime alignment from them and go every time I make a change to my car to double check it. My Firestone is also the one a local speed shop uses to align all of their cars. I am able to watch exactly what they are doing and have gotten to know all of the guys so I usually shoot the shit with them while they are doing it.

It happens to be the same Firestone a certain red 2010 Camaro with a supercharger, coilovers, bushings (all red) and really wide tires was aligned at when it was in town.

T.

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:54 AM   #24
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My local firestone was also very helpful... much more than the dealership even and they definitely seemed to now what they were doing.
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