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Old 07-24-2013, 08:04 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by BullF-16 View Post
Thanks Nick, now that i am done with my suspension and just added 6 piston calipers and huge rotors i am starting to address the TT. My shop is a distributor for PTE and highly recommends them but i am researching my options.

I know i want the compressor to be 67mm inducer and 87 exducer and turbine to be 77mm inducer and 66mm exducer. Or in the ball park. i figure this is what would make my motor happy and would not require spinning the turbos to crazy levels. This would also allow flexibility for future endeavours. NOw need to figure out the A/R for my 99% street car.

also cast OEM manifolds, shortys or custom fabbed? Thats another issue altogether.
If you don't want to deal with cracking, cast is the only way to go.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:43 PM   #27
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The factory ls3 manifolds flow extremely well and being cast will provide years of trouble free performance. Don't get me wrong tubular is gorgeous!

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Old 07-25-2013, 12:38 AM   #28
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If you don't want to deal with cracking, cast is the only way to go.
That's not entirely accurate. These manifolds were not designed with Turbo heat or support in mind. Cast manifolds steal and subsequently store a bunch of heat, and then radiate it outwards. Coatings help, heat shields do the same.
If you don't want any cracking, and the least amount of heat stolen from the system, thin wall inconel manifolds with a good coating are best.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:57 AM   #29
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Bull,

Take it from me, while the 67/66's might live for a while and be happy at moderately high boost levels on a 427, they won't last very long.... They seem to hold up to some of the short runs in drag racing but via the longer hotter runs of land speed racing I have determined at high boost levels they are too small...

I've been through several of them, including blowing two of them up in the same weekend on two different Mile passes. Both of them broke in the center section.... and yes, they were CEA billet wheels with ball bearing upgrades...

We were overspinning the hell out of them to make 25 lbs of boost.... Made one dyno pass at 30 psi.... in addition to the Mile passes at 25... The second turbo of the weekend didn't make it a full pass before it grenaded. I will saythey lasted for well over a year of runs and street driving when limited to only 18 lbs of boost... beyond that, you're on borrowed time...

We are going back together with 76/75 CEA turbos with an "H" cover and T4 outlets.

We've been told point blank, they will handle the cubes and boost.... The difference is we will be notching the frame to make them fit in the same location, next to the bell housing... and doing a HUGE intercooler...

The efficiency range for these is going to be much better, so the IAT's wont be so ridiculous...
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:07 AM   #30
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That is just PTE turbos, nothing to do with size IMO.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:11 AM   #31
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Damn, wish i was still at Luke AFB


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It's Ok I'll ship you out the kit lol.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:22 PM   #32
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WARNING!!! I am totally biased for AGP so take this for whatever you can get out of it. Could be wrong on some points, but I'm pretty sure.


First of all you are comparing IPS entry level 800whp kit to AGP's full 1000whp kit. Keep in mind when you add fuel, ceramic and powder coating to the IPS entry kit, it's is $650 more than AGP's full kit. And even then still doesn't include as much. What you are getting with the AGP kit is more of an OEM quality kit where you get more for le$$ because the volume manufacturing. AGP has built and shipped thousands and thousands of turbo kits for many years and is in a manufacturing position to invest up front to produce what would be a $12,000 kit, but for much much less.

Differences in the kits-
Like camarostar2010 said above, his IPS kit hangs below the frame of the car and can be problematic on rough roads, especially on lowered cars. The AGP kit is all tucked up higher, nothing hanging lower than the frame.
AGP kit comes with a little bigger, higher flowing turbos w/ 3" v-band outlets that help them spool faster and make more power than the smaller Garrett's in IPS's kit.
AGP kit comes with the larger higher flowing piping and intercooler
With AGP you get a choice of two intercooler sizes, a big one or a HUGE one. Same price.
Cast iron manifold adaptors in the AGP kit are certainly an advantage for heat retention and durability/longevity.
IPS kit has air filters much lower to the ground, right on the turbo. AGP has short intakes that keep the filters up and out of any water.
AGP comes with heat shields, dual PCV breather/catch cans, ZR1 iridium plugs, 3bar map sensor, ceramic coating and powder coating all standard.
The AGP charge pipe has 4 aux npt bungs right before the TB for breakout IAT. Meth inj. etc
AGP kits have been shipping to dealers and fit right, bolt on easy and make power. IPS is still gearing up to be able to ship.

Not sure these details on IPS but-
AGP's kit-
no drilling or tapping any part of the engine for oil feed and return
oil feeds to the turbos are from a filtered oil source off the engine
oil return has secondary filter for the oil returning to your engine


If i remember correctly if you get the 3in compressor housing on the IPS kit then it it will be above the frame. camarostar has the 4in. j/s
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:25 PM   #33
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Bull,

Take it from me, while the 67/66's might live for a while and be happy at moderately high boost levels on a 427, they won't last very long.... They seem to hold up to some of the short runs in drag racing but via the longer hotter runs of land speed racing I have determined at high boost levels they are too small...

I've been through several of them, including blowing two of them up in the same weekend on two different Mile passes. Both of them broke in the center section.... and yes, they were CEA billet wheels with ball bearing upgrades...

We were overspinning the hell out of them to make 25 lbs of boost.... Made one dyno pass at 30 psi.... in addition to the Mile passes at 25... The second turbo of the weekend didn't make it a full pass before it grenaded. I will saythey lasted for well over a year of runs and street driving when limited to only 18 lbs of boost... beyond that, you're on borrowed time...

We are going back together with 76/75 CEA turbos with an "H" cover and T4 outlets.

We've been told point blank, they will handle the cubes and boost.... The difference is we will be notching the frame to make them fit in the same location, next to the bell housing... and doing a HUGE intercooler...

The efficiency range for these is going to be much better, so the IAT's wont be so ridiculous...
that is going to be awesome and very cool. excited to see this completed.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:37 PM   #34
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Too much drama with turbos. I think i may just stick with the simple centri. Some guys say the turbos are too big, some say too small. Some say Precision Turbo sucks, some say they dont. I know my PC is beastly and im having damn fun and i know the F1c or F1x will meet my goals.

Im not gonna sleep for a few days

This was the hardest decision i have had to make. Stick with what you know works (this has never let me down)

Sorry to sound like a whiny biotch. I think this motor will last forever at 14psi from the dinky D1SC. That is bliss!
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:59 PM   #35
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Too much drama with turbos. I think i may just stick with the simple centri. Some guys say the turbos are too big, some say too small. Some say Precision Turbo sucks, some say they dont. I know my PC is beastly and im having damn fun and i know the F1c or F1x will meet my goals.

Im not gonna sleep for a few days

This was the hardest decision i have had to make. Stick with what you know works (this has never let me down)

Sorry to sound like a whiny biotch. I think this motor will last forever at 14psi from the dinky D1SC. That is bliss!
Ha! What kind of attitude is that? Guys that push the envelope do the work and then guys like you benefit. You need to jump to the other side and throw your wide open wallet at it.

I'm on your side (just in case you can't read between the lines). Constantly working on stuff has lost its luster to me. I kinda like to drive the hell out of the thing and leave the big money/ off the reservation stuff to someone else. Attaboys to the guys that need to have something just a little different, or need to get that next little (or bunch) of hp
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:17 PM   #36
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Precision make good power. I just wouldn't rank them high in reliability. Stick with Borg Warner, Garret, or an OEM turbo place for long lasting turbos.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:38 PM   #37
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Im not gonn push these PTE units too hard so i will probably go with them. Plus my shop is a distributor for PTE and Tial. They are custom fabbing my setup for less than a swap to a procharger F1. If i grenade a turbo, what are they, 1200 bucks or so. Lots of good reviews over on LS1Tech.com.

My shop is setting up a CTS-V with a similar custom setup and i plan to drive down to Ft Worth to get a look. Everything is coated and its supposed to be a hell of a good system.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:56 PM   #38
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Too much drama with turbos. I think i may just stick with the simple centri. Some guys say the turbos are too big, some say too small. Some say Precision Turbo sucks, some say they dont. I know my PC is beastly and im having damn fun and i know the F1c or F1x will meet my goals.

Im not gonna sleep for a few days

This was the hardest decision i have had to make. Stick with what you know works (this has never let me down)

Sorry to sound like a whiny biotch. I think this motor will last forever at 14psi from the dinky D1SC. That is bliss!

So first you say this, then you decide to go with a pieced together 'kit'?
enjoy
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:28 PM   #39
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because I like reading this stuff.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:36 PM   #40
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Running IPS kit and very happy with it. Really like the Garrett GT3794 turbo's.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:45 PM   #41
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Precision make good power. I just wouldn't rank them high in reliability. Stick with Borg Warner, Garret, or an OEM turbo place for long lasting turbos.
So how to the likes of the S261's or say S259's spool compared to say a 6266CEA ? OR Garret equivalent if there is one ?
Or Even the new 6466CEA ?

I'm considering bumping my old YSi in favour of twins. It's just the choice of turbo's is so vast, and peoples opinions of reliable and junk seem to vary across many units.

Ive used Precisions BB units on a few 4 cyl cars to as much as 40psi boost and never once had a problem. But reading peoples reports still makes me cautious, and the likes of a DBB 6466CEA isnt cheap, and is the unit I'd be aiming for

But I also do 1km and mile runs in my car, and after SSE 42SS's post....I have concerns again.

I dont think Ive read any bad reports about the BW units though, other than they are physically huge. But how do they spool ? Manual trans car circa 382ci and I'd be liking to hit full boost by ideally 4000rpm, at worst 4500rpm and aiming for 1k+
Would be using LS3 logs as per some of these kits in this thread although DIY.

Cost is a factor. I can get the Precision at sensible prices from a local dealer. But BW would be much cheaper either way.
Although arent the BW units also physically very big ?

Also, what scavenge pump do these kits use ?
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:58 PM   #42
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So how to the likes of the S261's or say S259's spool compared to say a 6266CEA ? OR Garret equivalent if there is one ?
Or Even the new 6466CEA ?

I'm considering bumping my old YSi in favour of twins. It's just the choice of turbo's is so vast, and peoples opinions of reliable and junk seem to vary across many units.

Ive used Precisions BB units on a few 4 cyl cars to as much as 40psi boost and never once had a problem. But reading peoples reports still makes me cautious, and the likes of a DBB 6466CEA isnt cheap, and is the unit I'd be aiming for

But I also do 1km and mile runs in my car, and after SSE 42SS's post....I have concerns again.

I dont think Ive read any bad reports about the BW units though, other than they are physically huge. But how do they spool ? Manual trans car circa 382ci and I'd be liking to hit full boost by ideally 4000rpm, at worst 4500rpm and aiming for 1k+
Would be using LS3 logs as per some of these kits in this thread although DIY.

Cost is a factor. I can get the Precision at sensible prices from a local dealer. But BW would be much cheaper either way.

Also, what scavenge pump do these kits use ?
I, too, was trying to find comparable turbos and my (probably flawed) research shows the s261 falling right around precision 6262 and 6265/66 and garrett 3582/3586. I don't really know crap about turbos and am just learning so don't take my findings as gospel. My car is slated to get s261s in the next week or so and there is a chance we might go to a different (bigger) turbo as well. Two different a/r housings (.82 and 1.0) are going to be dynoed back to back to see what difference they have on the powerband as well. Should be interesting!

I believe the agp kit uses a porsche pump for the oil return.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:24 PM   #43
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Just how big is the S261 ? Is the compressor really huge ?

And do those units all use a T3 turbine housing, or do they use a T4 ?

Most people say you need a T4 fanged unit to make big numbers, so are the BW T3 turbine housings much bigger that conventional ones or something ?
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:37 PM   #44
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googling found me this. A comparison with a GT30R and the BW S256. Very good photos for a size comparison.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2220363
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:06 PM   #45
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Im pretty sure you have a choice of t3 or a vband. The 261 would be just a bit bigger than the 256 I presume. I gave permission to alter the car to make them fit too. .
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:08 PM   #46
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Im pretty sure you have a choice of t3 or a vband. The 261 would be just a bit bigger than the 256 I presume. I gave permission to alter the car to make them fit too.

At turbodriven.com (bw site) the catalog has dimensions.

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Old 08-11-2013, 07:14 PM   #47
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From pictures etc it's hard to tell. Looks like they both use the 4" inlet and 2" discharge though.
The AGP turbine housings dont look as huge as the original BW ones though.

Been googling for a good bit though, and cant really find anyone actually using the units though to get an idea of performance other than mention elsewhere on this forum by AGP that the 261 would support 1400hp.
If that's true, would be really good to hear how those units can be made to spool at lower levels. At least it would offer future proofing when used at a lower level. Could turbine housing down to make them spool if it was an option.
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:25 PM   #48
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Same results as me. I read somewhere the 261 is actually a replacement for the s360 but I cannot find it again. My car is going to be a test bed for the 261s and CPR so they will have experience the next time.

AGPs site says they have AGP housings and not the BW ones.
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:03 PM   #49
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My biggest problem with the 67/66's is cubic inches... they will handle pretty much whatever you throw at them up to about 3.1 liters per turbo... I was throwing 3.5 liters plus worth of exhaust at each of them with my 429 ci motor... If you are factory cubes, go for it... here is a size difference we are dealing with.... this is the 67/66 we had in my car, and the 76/75's we are installing.... All new manifolds, hand fabricated, heavy wall stainless, new substantially larger intercooler etc... These turbos sit next to the bell housing right off the manifold collectors.

The new turbos have an "H" cover and T4 hot side. The compressor housing has a .96 a/r ratio. These are ball bearing turbo's with a mid frame center section.... and CEA wheels...
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:31 PM   #50
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Call Kevin@AGP.

AGP cast their own housings so can't compare. It isn't a t3 or t4 housings. They flow a ton compared to other off the shelf castings.

Spool depends on a ton of stuff. Compression, cam, tuning, a/r, turbine wheel, etc. The 56s spool almost instantly on a stock L99. AGP can do 67/73s, or whatever the customer wants. It would be best to talk to Kevin directly then order through the vendor of your choice.
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