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Forced Induction - V8 V8 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

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Old 07-02-2013, 05:05 AM   #51
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No smoke, installed an oil restrictor to fix that. Heat is an issue but I think that between me repositioning stuff and PCM changing the routing on my plug wires that it should be ok. Time will tell.

If I have to change my system in the future I will be going to a Maggie or just go with an NA motor. Don't see that happening any time soon though.

Misinformed and naīve would be a better way to describe the mess that we are in. I am sure that if we knew that buying this kit meant that we had to choose between redesigning under the hood or dealing with this many issues that no one would have bought it at all. Having the computer on the inner fender beside the fuse box should have been a huge indicator for us all, looks like shat. Than has a really good thread that is helping me to figure out what to do with some of the stuff that I am concerned about. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188393
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:25 PM   #52
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Bigger turbo enuff said. Sold the comp for 450.00. Had less,then 150 miles on it. Are you smoking at all? Also, I'm seeing the effects of forward facing headers. To hot! I'm gonna look at changing my system before the heat does more damage to every wire or hose in my bay. Let's face it, one of the worst designs I've ever seen and I was to stupid to see it. Happy though with the precision turbo I have now.

Ahhhh. Someone gets it. Hot parts go where hot parts are meant to go.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:32 PM   #53
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The turbonetics uses a 76/68 f1 turbine the only reason they get away with it is the dual as in two 35 km waste gates that lower the back pressure but if you try to push it much over 12 pounds it still skyrockets the back pressure. You could slap another waste gate on there and crutch it just like the tnetics kit but as stated earlier a minimum of a 75mm turbine is needed without the dual gates.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:52 PM   #54
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Wastegates don't lower backpressure. It would not matter if there were 10 wastegates.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:58 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by rhunley14 View Post
Bigger turbo enuff said. Sold the comp for 450.00. Had less,then 150 miles on it. Are you smoking at all? Also, I'm seeing the effects of forward facing headers. To hot! I'm gonna look at changing my system before the heat does more damage to every wire or hose in my bay. Let's face it, one of the worst designs I've ever seen and I was to stupid to see it. Happy though with the precision turbo I have now.
did you try to heatwrap all the hotside pipes, and use a turbo blanket?
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:07 PM   #56
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Waste gates control turbo boost pressure by bypassing exhaust around the turbine and into the down pipe which reduces exhaust flow and pressure thru the turbine which slows the turbo and hold or reduces boost pressure. So when a wastegate opens it reduces pressure. So if you had two waste gates of 35 mm when fully opened you would bypass exhaust thru a 70mm pipe into the low pressure gases in the down pipe so how do they not relieve pressure. If I'm wrong please explain how. I've been around turbos all my life and actually work with them on a daily basis professionally. I'm also a professional tech so I'm pretty confident in my statements but I'm always open to correction. Are multiple or larger waste gates a good way to relieve back pressure. No does it work. Kind of but not well but it worked for the tnetics crowd so they could use a turbine that is to small on an ls3.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:40 PM   #57
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If you reduce back pressure you reduce boost only way to lower it is to lower boost with out changing parts. If you have 14psi of back pressure at 7psi of boost you will still have 14 psi of backpressure at 7psi with 1,2,3 30, waste gates. They use two waste gates for better control of pressure. I'm sure they have a larger housing than this turbo that's why they have a little lower backpressure.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:42 PM   #58
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Waste gates control turbo boost pressure by bypassing exhaust around the turbine and into the down pipe which reduces exhaust flow and pressure thru the turbine which slows the turbo and hold or reduces boost pressure. So when a wastegate opens it reduces pressure. So if you had two waste gates of 35 mm when fully opened you would bypass exhaust thru a 70mm pipe into the low pressure gases in the down pipe so how do they not relieve pressure. If I'm wrong please explain how. I've been around turbos all my life and actually work with them on a daily basis professionally. I'm also a professional tech so I'm pretty confident in my statements but I'm always open to correction. Are multiple or larger waste gates a good way to relieve back pressure. No does it work. Kind of but not well but it worked for the tnetics crowd so they could use a turbine that is to small on an ls3.

You are correct, except then it would make no boost. Bypassing more air before the turbine will lower pressure, but then it will lower boost. At 10psi with 1,2,10,20 wastegates the pressure pre turbine will be the same. Just means each wastegate opens less to maintain the 10psi.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:17 PM   #59
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I would agree with that but as an engine increases rpm it increases exhaust flow due to the amount of air being drawn in. A waste gate doesn't open solely on boost pressure alone it also works off exhaust pressure also. Example would be a car with high back pressure requires a 14 pound boost spring in the waste gate but the gate controls the boost to 8 psi or even lower. I have seen that multiple times. So in this case the engine makes 8 pounds of boost at say 2500 rpm well it doesn't have 30 pounds of back pressure then I'm sure but as the rpm increases the engine takes in nmore air and puts out more exhaust and the waste gate can flow enough exhaust to control boost but due to its small area the exhaust begins to build pressure until at high rpm 30+ pounds of back pressure. If the waste gate where large enough it could bypass the restriction (the turbine) but still keep enough exhaust going thru the turbine to maintain boost pressure. It does work. I have seen it. Caterpillar uses a system much like this on there c15 acert compound turbo set up. The compressors are compound but the turbines are more of a series set up but that's another explanation. I've seen this on a two. Turbo 400 SBC that had t3 housings. They where way to small but due to twin 60mm waste gates the back pressure never went higher then 2 to 1 which is acceptable. Not good by today's standards but acceptable. Anyway one way or the other its not a great idea but it is the wat tnetics set there's up. Other wise there hot side would be showing very high back pressure with a 68mm turbine like the ops car does. No bullshit I swear this works. Its a crutch but it does work.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:35 PM   #60
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I believe the reason nobody is buying this is because why would anyone try to make a turbo that is to small work when you could just move to a larger turbine. I've seen this in action due to being around very large engines. 14 ltr and up. The compromises get larger when you are trying to make an engine have awesome off idle torque but still decent top end for a diesel. I honestly should have probably just kept my mouth shut and not got into it but I thought the tnetics kit was a good example and I could explain it well enough. I do know this works but I think my examples and explanations would just muddle things more then they already are because it would be like comparing apples to oranges and things wouldn't translate well. I bow out.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:41 PM   #61
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Sign of needing a second or larger waste gate would be a boost spike or not being able to keep boost down...OP mentioned neither.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:54 PM   #62
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A wastegate does not lower back pressure without lowering boost... They are relative to each other. When the wastegate is open it is just dumping the air not used to keep desired boost if you use two you just cut the cfm across the two instead of one. You cant use a compound turbo set up as an example because the wastegate size between the two could change things.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:58 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordoza View Post
I believe the reason nobody is buying this is because why would anyone try to make a turbo that is to small work when you could just move to a larger turbine. I've seen this in action due to being around very large engines. 14 ltr and up. The compromises get larger when you are trying to make an engine have awesome off idle torque but still decent top end for a diesel. I honestly should have probably just kept my mouth shut and not got into it but I thought the tnetics kit was a good example and I could explain it well enough. I do know this works but I think my examples and explanations would just muddle things more then they already are because it would be like comparing apples to oranges and things wouldn't translate well. I bow out.
I'm sorry but it doesn't work thats why we arent buying it.I've had this same debate more than a few times....
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