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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 07-10-2013, 11:31 PM   #1
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"thePill" is hard to swallow

this guy seems adamant he knows the real story...some of this makes perfect sense...some does not. it does take a long time to have a car approved for scca and based on the current rules it does seem illegal..maybe a super touring class...that leaves pro racing???

this is a mumbo jumbo...pick thorough it for morsels and I endorse none of it.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=705
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:32 PM   #2
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He used to be on here until he got banned.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:43 AM   #3
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Hmmm
He does make great points. This car isn't legal in any class of racing....
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:55 AM   #4
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It may be legal in the Grand Am grand sport class
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:48 AM   #5
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That was an interesting read, I definitely learned some things, but it made me laugh at the same time. His major angle of attack is that the Z/28 won't be sanctioned in any real racing classes, and it betrays the intent of the original homologated Z/28.

So what?

Chevy is using mag shocks and carbon rotors that are illegal in road racing?

So what?

It would be retarded of Chevy to forgoe using the advancements they have made in mag ride technology on their "halo" or special cars for the sake of some SCCA class rules.

I guess high end exotic sports cars that don't use iron rotors are dumb too, because they didn't reverse engineer their cars to meet organizational racing rules. Yeah yeah, carbo-ceramic is over-priced for what it does yadda yadda

That whole "what wins on Sunday sells on Monday" mindset died decades ago. I don't give a shit who won what class in SCCA, I have zero skin in that game. I'm not quitting my day job to race competitively in Grand Am, I drive and hit the track for me and to have fun. I don't need to be associated with a racing circuit to enjoy a fast sports car. I pay my entry fees at whatever track, do my inspections, run my car, and then go home. If my mag ride shocks don't qualify me for this or that racing venue, I don't care, I wasn't registering anyway.

The egotism is funny too. He apparently thinks people on Camaro5 are actually thinking to themselve that the "thepill" guy "was right all along". Seriously who is "ThePill"?

Camaro5 must have left some serious mental scar tissue on this guy to be so obssessed with what some forum thinks, enough to take pictures of people's posts. Perhaps it is the moderators he has an issue/grudge with, but wow.

EDIT: The photoshops were funny. It's good to be passionate about something though.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:04 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by backtotintops View Post
this guy seems adamant he knows the real story...some of this makes perfect sense...some does not. it does take a long time to have a car approved for scca and based on the current rules it does seem illegal..maybe a super touring class...that leaves pro racing???

this is a mumbo jumbo...pick thorough it for morsels and I endorse none of it.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=705
I'll be honest - I have no idea who this guy is or what his issue is with camaro5.

I will say that I noticed he mentions a lot of "regulations" but fails to cute what regulations he's referring to. Just an observation.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:35 AM   #7
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I would love to see some of the C5 regulars rebuttle to this, bc its slow at work and would make for great coffee break reading
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:13 AM   #8
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Basically all you need to know about this guy is he had nothing better to do with his life than go on Camaro/GM related sites and relentlessly talk about how much better the Mustang/Ford was and continuously make excuses when Ford came up short in whatever way until he was banned from pretty much every site.

The sales threads every month became comical. Camaro would come out on top continuously and he'd make excuses about Mustang inventory being low.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:28 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
Basically all you need to know about this guy is he had nothing better to do with his life than go on Camaro/GM related sites and relentlessly talk about how much better the Mustang/Ford was and continuously make excuses when Ford came up short in whatever way until he was banned from pretty much every site.

The sales threads every month became comical. Camaro would come out on top continuously and he'd make excuses about Mustang inventory being low.
Exactly why I want to see a C5 regular argue with him... I could use some good laughs from the arguments on both sides lol
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:05 AM   #10
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His point appears to be that GM is marketing the Z28 as a track car, but it isn't legal for track competition per current rules and specs. I don't care enough to read through the rules, but if what he says is true, then that should be of concern and should be made public IMHO.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:21 AM   #11
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I can't speak for pro racing but in club racing I'm 99% sure he is correct about the motor, brakes, and wheel tire combo being illegal in SCCA club racing. You can download the GCR and look for yourself. http://www.scca.com/clubracing/content.cfm?cid=44472

I think you should look under T1 and T2. I think you could strip the car and run it in GT1 though but I'm not totally sure.

I hope there is a way this car gets homologated and approved somewhere in scca but Steilow's comment of brakes lasting a full tank of gas makes me think endurance racing...and thepill is correct in that it takes a long time and much technical submissions to get approval...if they want to pro race this car next year they are likely well in to the approval process.

so overall I think the pill is correct in his assertions about current legality...how he actually puts forth his information is both funny and a bit creepy at the same time.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:26 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by backtotintops View Post
I can't speak for pro racing but in club racing I'm 99% sure he is correct about the motor, brakes, and wheel tire combo being illegal in SCCA club racing. You can download the GCR and look for yourself. http://www.scca.com/clubracing/content.cfm?cid=44472

I think you should look under T1 and T2. I think you could strip the car and run it in GT1 though but I'm not totally sure.

I hope there is a way this car gets homologated and approved somewhere in scca but Steilow's comment of brakes lasting a full tank of gas makes me think endurance racing...and thepill is correct in that it takes a long time and much technical submissions to get approval...if they want to pro race this car next year they are likely well in to the approval process.

so overall I think the pill is correct in his assertions about current legality...how he actually puts forth his information is both funny and a bit creepy at the same time.
yeah, defs a bit weird the way he posts it hahaha
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:54 PM   #13
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What he has said makes you truly wonder about alot of things. He does have some insanely valid points.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:23 PM   #14
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His old post would swing to extremes. He'd seem rational and coherent then moments later he'd seem bipolar.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:33 PM   #15
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But let's not ignore his main point, this car is being marketed as a street legal "race car", and most of the faithful on here maintain the this car isn't for the guy that's just gonna take it to HPDE days. Well, it would seem that that is all you can do with this car - as the rules currently stand.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:48 PM   #16
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Haha...

302S/R are pure, no VIN race cars. Sold through Ford parts dept. Cool cars. Cooler if you install some decent brakes (because the stock brakes are horribly undersized lol...) and a Watts Link rear suspension. I looked very seriously at buying one this time last year, was going to sink additional $9k into suspension, and another $8k into a set of real brakes (PITA ass to upgrade though). That results in an approx $107,000 302S. Plus tax of course.

A different opportunity came up so I passed on the 302S allocation a dealer offered me. Nifty cars, good looking, there is value there for certain drivers. I've always liked the fact Ford even offers such a thing as a part department bought race car.

So with that preface to my comments I find the odd thing about the gentleman posting on the other forum, and he does come across as credible because he is generally well-spoken, is he does not grasp that the Z/28 is a Street toy/out-of-the-box ready HPDE car.

Not a race car, like the 302S/R are.

Chalk and cheese.

Now I know some on here have thought the Z/28 is a race car and might race in some series somewhere, or whatever. It is not, it won't, nor is it anywhere close. It is mental masturbation to think otherwise.

It will be an incredible HPDE/Track day ready car capable of terrorizing $150k GT3RS's and a super-visceral road legal weekend fun machine. It'll be incredibly fun for short trips on the street, and even better, a perfect arrive and drive track day toy. The brakes/cooler/dry sump will give it the ability to play hard and still live to play another day, and another, and another, etc. And if it comes in at $65-70k'ish, an incredible value for what it offers.

And for HPDE/PDX track days, and even SCCA Time Trials, there is nothing "illegal" about any car (well, as long as it passes tech inspection for safety). How do I know? I've participated in them for years and am a currently licensed SCCA PDX/TT driving instructor. So I'm not just jacking off my synapses, I actually live the dream

Different strokes for different folks. We are all so fortunate to live at a time and in a place where we have these amazing fun cars available to buy "off-the-shelf". It is a wonderful time to be alive.

I'm super stoked to take delivery next year of the Z/28 I placed a deposit on and signed a purchase order for the week after they were announced.

Relax...enjoy...
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:56 PM   #17
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I am familiar enough with "thePill" to make an assessment.

The guy is no dummy, and at times makes valid points. I actually enjoyed reading some of his posts while he was here b/c I thought his insight on Mustang was interesting.

Then after reading more of his stuff, it is plain to see his eager bias against all things Camaro, and sometimes his posts just enter in the realm of "douche". All it takes is to read some of his comments on any over the Camaro vs. Mustang threads over on the SVT site.

Yes, he HATES Camaro5 with a passion and I'm not exactly sure why, but its obvious the guy is majorly butthurt over something someone(s) did to him over here. There is no talking any reason into that guy...he feels the Camaro as a whole is one big failure.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
Haha...

302S/R are pure, no VIN race cars. Sold through Ford parts dept. Cool cars. Cooler if you install some decent brakes (because the stock brakes are horribly undersized lol...) and a Watts Link rear suspension. I looked very seriously at buying one this time last year, was going to sink additional $9k into suspension, and another $8k into a set of real brakes (PITA ass to upgrade though). That results in an approx $107,000 302S. Plus tax of course.

A different opportunity came up so I passed on the 302S allocation a dealer offered me. Nifty cars, good looking, there is value there for certain drivers. I've always liked the fact Ford even offers such a thing as a part department bought race car.

So with that preface to my comments I find the odd thing about the gentleman posting on the other forum, and he does come across as credible because he is generally well-spoken, is he does not grasp that the Z/28 is a Street toy/out-of-the-box ready HPDE car.

Not a race car, like the 302S/R are.

Chalk and cheese.

Now I know some on here have thought the Z/28 is a race car and might race in some series somewhere, or whatever. It is not, it won't, nor is it anywhere close. It is mental masturbation to think otherwise.

It will be an incredible HPDE/Track day ready car capable of terrorizing $150k GT3RS's and a super-visceral road legal weekend fun machine. It'll be incredibly fun for short trips on the street, and even better, a perfect arrive and drive track day toy. The brakes/cooler/dry sump will give it the ability to play hard and still live to play another day, and another, and another, etc. And if it comes in at $65-70k'ish, an incredible value for what it offers.

And for HPDE/PDX track days, and even SCCA Time Trials, there is nothing "illegal" about any car (well, as long as it passes tech inspection for safety). How do I know? I've participated in them for years and am a currently licensed SCCA PDX/TT driving instructor. So I'm not just jacking off my synapses, I actually live the dream

Different strokes for different folks. We are all so fortunate to live at a time and in a place where we have these amazing fun cars available to buy "off-the-shelf". It is a wonderful time to be alive.

I'm super stoked to take delivery next year of the Z/28 I placed a deposit on and signed a purchase order for the week after they were announced.

Relax...enjoy...
This.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:15 PM   #19
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He will be excited by this thread. It will inflate his ego more than it already is (if that's even possible).
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:28 PM   #20
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But let's not ignore his main point, this car is being marketed as a street legal "race car", and most of the faithful on here maintain the this car isn't for the guy that's just gonna take it to HPDE days. Well, it would seem that that is all you can do with this car - as the rules currently stand.
Exactly.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:54 PM   #21
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Most of his points were pure assumptions and mostly irrelvant. Besides no matter what car You have if you want to serious professional racing it needs to be modified in some way. The Z28 is a good platform regardless.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:44 AM   #22
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I would like to hear Doc's opinion...

I see both sides, yes on most tracks, this car is going to dominate almost any other car on the same track as it. Thats a hell of an accomplishment for team camaro, and GM.

Yet this car is a modern version of the 67-69 Z/28s yet isnt legal to race in many series?
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:59 AM   #23
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If you want a race car, buy a race car, because a street car is not, nor will ever be, a race car. In spite of what any manufacturer would have you believe from reading their marketing materials. Your Camaro with a VIN shares nothing in common with the ALMS/Continental Challenge cars. Nor do the Porsches, Vettes, RX7's etc etc.

That is reality.

Who cares about the spew of some nameless, faceless forum poster who loves the sound of his own voice anyhow? (him, not me :-)) Are some of you so incapable/lazy of doing your own homework and forming your own decisions that you rely on some adolescent dreamer living in grandma's basement? I can't believe anyone who is actually a prospect to buy a Z/28 gives this guy a moments serious consideration?

Tighten Up!
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:05 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
If you want a race car, buy a race car, because a street car is not, nor will ever be, a race car. In spite of what any manufacturer would have you believe from reading their marketing materials. Your Camaro with a VIN shares nothing in common with the ALMS/Continental Challenge cars. Nor do the Porsches, Vettes, RX7's etc etc.

That is reality.

Who cares about the spew of some nameless, faceless forum poster who loves the sound of his own voice anyhow? (him, not me :-)) Are some of you so incapable/lazy of doing your own homework and forming your own decisions that you rely on some adolescent dreamer living in grandma's basement? I can't believe anyone who is actually a prospect to buy a Z/28 gives this guy a moments serious consideration?

Tighten Up!
hehehehe....I get a kick out of reading your posts...
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:05 AM   #25
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I would like to hear Doc's opinion...

I see both sides, yes on most tracks, this car is going to dominate almost any other car on the same track as it. Thats a hell of an accomplishment for team camaro, and GM.

Yet this car is a modern version of the 67-69 Z/28s yet isnt legal to race in many series?
What "both sides" is there? Do you not comprehend the Z/28 is not a race car? That there is nothing "illegal" to be discussed (it's a red herring)? How is this question even coming up? Have you ever actually stood next to an actual race car?

Do you have a crystal clear understanding of what DE/HPDE/Track Days are? And how they differ from actual racing? Time Trials? Do you understand how they differ from wheel-to-wheel racing?

Good gosh people, do some homework and understand what you are talking about...
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