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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 07-13-2013, 12:38 PM   #51
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The SCCA address rule and car classification changes every year. No reason to think you won't be able to use the car in some type of competition. You may have to wait a year or two for them to figure it out, though.
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:22 PM   #52
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THIS! would be awesome. I was hoping for the same thing, but didn't make the Z/28 connection. I also hope the Z/28 is as good as your car, Doc.
hehe well thank you for the compliment, but there are definitely things on the new Z that I wish I had for (or had the budget for) on mine. I'd love to have the trans, diff, coolers, and a few other goodies it has that mine doesn't/won't. I do have a few things I'm adding though; I've purchased a set of very light racing wheels and Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires that I'm in the process of getting set up. Trying to find a local paint shop that can paint them the way I want without charging ridiculous prices.

I also have a set of the Pfadt Tri-Y headers and cats coming as soon as they're shipping. After tune I'm guessing I'll be somewhere around 485-500 rwhp and a vehicle weight of 3650 lbs with a full tank of gas. Beyond that I'll probably get the front caliper upgrade from Racing Brake.

It's going to be real interesting to see what the final specs are going to be on the Z/28. I'm guessing they're going to be just under 3700 lbs with a full tank. I won't have much of an advantage on weight; if any. For power I'm guessing they'll be around 460 rwhp so I'll have a slight power advantage but I don't think that'll be enough to offset the 11" wide Trofeos the Z has; the Z will definitely have me on cornering power and grip. It's going to have a better fueling and oiling system for the engine. Suspension geometry looks to be revised and most likely will be better than my 2010 SS.

HOWEVER, that being said... I still have A/C, sound deadening in the cabin, full stereo system and mine will be quite a bit more comfortable on the street. But I think in a head-to-head contest on the track the Z/28 will out-corner mine. I would LOVE to have mine up at Laguna Seca and have Randy Pobst do a comparison to the new Z/28 when it comes out. It would be interesting to see what mine would do in the hands of a real pro.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:34 PM   #53
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I've said many times in my comments that there may be a new manufacturer's championship series in the works ala the original Trans Am (the Camaros and Mustangs did not compete in the Can Am series as he mentioned in one of his posts).

These cars don't fit anything that's current; so what kind of game are the big 3 playing here? My thought is they may be planning a new manufacturer's championship series where the rules will be what the Big 3 (and SCCA) agree they're going to be. I don't have any inside info, I'm making a purely educated guess here but to me it looks like something is in the works that they aren't talking about.... yet. They're being just as secretive about it as they are about the actual performance of these new cars they're developing. Chevy isn't done with the Z/28 yet; why not? Is all this race-level secrecy and development REALLY necessary just for HPDE and weekend racers? IMHO no. The Z/28 has been at least 2 years in development, you can be sure that Dodge and Ford didn't just suddenly decide to start their own development while watching the Z/28 announcement. They're all working on something; they're being very VERY guarded about performance and such. That kind of secrecy isn't needed for HPDE and weekend racers; it IS generally seen when involved with real racing.

I'm hoping for a new Trans Am or something similar that will be based on these new production track cars and be a new manufacturer's championship series.

UNLESS they have something else going on we don't know about... yet. The cost of consumables for tires and brakes alone on these cars is out-of-range for the average Camaro/Mustang/Dodge customer, so who are these cars really being developed for? I do not believe these cars are being developed to "rip people off". I think the next 18 months are going to be VERY interesting.
Hey Doc you don't think your theory could have anything to do with this place do you lol???????

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:56 PM   #54
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Hey Doc you don't think your theory could have anything to do with this place do you lol???????

http://www.motorsportspark.org/
Wow that could very well be; timing is just about right. What a great layout...I would LOVE to drive that full course. Too bad it's being built in Kentucky and not closer to me.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:50 PM   #55
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i wonder where ford and mopar will put their tracks
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:06 PM   #56
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HOWEVER, that being said... I still have A/C, sound deadening in the cabin, full stereo system and mine will be quite a bit more comfortable on the street. But I think in a head-to-head contest on the track the Z/28 will out-corner mine. I would LOVE to have mine up at Laguna Seca and have Randy Pobst do a comparison to the new Z/28 when it comes out. It would be interesting to see what mine would do in the hands of a real pro.
Subscribing to that thread. Do it. Other than suspension manufacturer shop cars are there any other private street Camaros on here that could match up? A run off with a pro driver would be really interesting. And include a modded ZL1 just to see. And please do this at the NJ Motorsports park. (Too far I know.) FbodFather are you listening?

I would bet more than one GM employee has eyeballed your build thread for ideas and results. Also your car would be a great pattern for the SEMA show car version of the upcoming Mark Donohue edition Z/28.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:19 PM   #57
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So from my previous engagements with the Pill is there is a bit of truth expounded on and even twisted to bash GM and Camaro.

I had one "discussion" around the use of high strength steel. He had read an article on how Ford had used HSS on the Fiesta or something and that is why Ford was so much better than GM. No clue on the fact that GM had used a great deal of it on the Camaro. So yes, Ford may have used HSS on one of their products, but had nothing to do with GM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:19 PM   #58
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If people are touting the Z28 as a HPDE or track day car, and not for any sanctioned racing at all, why spend 70K on it if all you want to do is go fast around a track and beat your own time? You can do it for a lot less money, with a lot lighter platform, with a much better suspension if you don't care about being within rules of any race organization.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:35 PM   #59
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If you just want a track day car, an Ariel Atom is only $56,500 and will smoke damn near anything on the course.
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:36 AM   #60
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10 Reasons To Buy A Z/28:

10) You like the look of the car
9) You like the capabilities of the car...HPDE = HEHEHE!
8) You like the relative uniqueness of the car
7) You can afford one...or more...
6) You WANT one...or more...
5) You like the fact it can be legally street-driven, and insured for such
4) You still have room in your garage/basement/museum for one...or more...
3) "427 Camaro"...YUM!
2) "Carbon-Ceramic"...DUBBLE YUM!

And the NUMBER 1 REASON To Buy A Z/28:

1) Just to pi$$ off the fringe Doubting Thomases and Butt Hurtz on camaro5...
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:35 AM   #61
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10) You like the look of the car
9) You like the capabilities of the car...HPDE = HEHEHE!
8) You like the relative uniqueness of the car
7) You can afford one...or more...
6) You WANT one...or more...
5) You like the fact it can be legally street-driven, and insured for such
4) You still have room in your garage/basement/museum for one...or more...
3) "427 Camaro"...YUM!
2) "Carbon-Ceramic"...DUBBLE YUM!

And the NUMBER 1 REASON To Buy A Z/28:

1) Just to pi$$ off the fringe Doubting Thomases and Butt Hurtz on camaro5...
I think reason # 3 can get repeated lol. 427 Camaro, I don't care who you are, or what brand you prefer, 427 Camaro just sounds awesome
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:05 PM   #62
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I think reason # 3 can get repeated lol. 427 Camaro, I don't care who you are, or what brand you prefer, 427 Camaro just sounds awesome
I am going to get killed for this but you must realize where I am coming from on this as I may be older than most on this board.

I have owned 3 cars with 427's in them and I LOVE the 427 but I would not say I am in love with the LS7. I love the late 60's 427 true true big block that would still allow for a supercharger, nitrous, additional boring, or anything else that would put additional strain on the block that the LS7 is not designed to take. My view of the LS7 is a small block pushed to the very limits of what you can do with it which concerns me versus the old school 427's that still had a lot of iron (or aluminum in the case of the original ZL1) between the cylinder walls and did not have to rely on the heads so much for the added cc's of displacement. I think the issue with the heads on the LS7 and the recommendation to NOT S/C it speaks to just how close to the line of too far GM got with this power plant.

With that being said, I get what the LS7 was built for. It was built for getting the best of both world. Displacement of the big block and the high RPM's of a small block with the weight of a small block when weight is a major concerns as it is in road course driving. I get it. I just would prefer to have my 427ci come in a package that still has a little left on the table.

Ok, fire away. Hehehehe.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:54 PM   #63
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I think Thomson, and Livernois, and Lingenfelter, and a host of other companies can verify the fact that there is still "a little left on the table". Power-adders aside, 500+ rwhp IS available, with selected parts and a streetable tune... That number is beyond L-88/ZL1 power from back in the day, in any streetable state of tune, without power-adders. Gross engine dyno hp on well-tuned open-headered ZL1s put them about 525 GROSS hp...and 375 GROSS hp "as installed"...well under an LS3!

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

The '69s were credited with (stock) 13.16 1/4-mile times...on par with a current SS-LS3. With 10" slicks and open headers (and a tune), 11.6s ensued which, for a car likely to weigh 400 lb. less than a '14 Z/28, the Gen-5 ZEE with similar mods will likely match.

NO carbureted BBC of any displacement is/was capable of near-30 mpg, carrying near-4000 lb., while idling down the Interstate @ '14 emissions levels.

"These ARE 'the good ol' days' !"
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:10 PM   #64
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BTW, a '69 Camaro COPO 9560 (aka ZL1) was about TWICE the price of an SS 396-375 hp Camaro, with mandatory options but without all the features the Gen-5 Z/28 will include.

Keep in mind the JL8 - 4WDB option in '69 (NOT available on COPO cars) was another $500.30 feature on 12-bolt-equipped cars ($623.50 on 10-bolt - upgrade to 12-bolt diff necessary)...and those brakes were NOT Carbon-Ceramic...
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:24 PM   #65
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I think Thomson, and Livernois, and Lingenfelter, and a host of other companies can verify the fact that there is still "a little left on the table". Power-adders aside, 500+ rwhp IS available, with selected parts and a streetable tune... That number is beyond L-88/ZL1 power from back in the day, in any streetable state of tune, without power-adders. Gross engine dyno hp on well-tuned open-headered ZL1s put them about 525 GROSS hp...and 375 GROSS hp "as installed"...well under an LS3!

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

The '69s were credited with (stock) 13.16 1/4-mile times...on par with a current SS-LS3. With 10" slicks and open headers (and a tune), 11.6s ensued which, for a car likely to weigh 400 lb. less than a '14 Z/28, the Gen-5 ZEE with similar mods will likely match.

NO carbureted BBC of any displacement is/was capable of near-30 mpg, carrying near-4000 lb., while idling down the Interstate @ '14 emissions levels.

"These ARE 'the good ol' days' !"
Not going to argue with you because you points are valid for a stock LS7 versus a stock ZL1 back in the day relative to stats but that is not what I was getting at with my post.

I don't care about mpg, emissions, or daily drivability. IF I did, I would LOVE the LS7. I am just saying that I had a 69 Camaro with a 427 in it about 10 years ago that was naturally aspirated (with a little juice) that I drove to the track and ran low 10's all day long and I only had about $11K on mods over the additional stock engine. I drove the car home at the end of the night (after swapping tires) and did it again the next week. I did this for almost 3 years without much other than changing the oil and refilling the bottle. I would find it hard to believe an LS7 could take that kind of a beating with little to no maintenance and for just over $11K in mods over the stock car.

Maybe I am wrong but I see a lot of guys over on the vette forum having issue with the LS7 when the slam it hard on a strip or even abuse it regularly on a course without lots of preventative maintenance.
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:14 PM   #66
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Not going to argue with you because you points are valid for a stock LS7 versus a stock ZL1 back in the day relative to stats but that is not what I was getting at with my post.

I don't care about mpg, emissions, or daily drivability. IF I did, I would LOVE the LS7. I am just saying that I had a 69 Camaro with a 427 in it about 10 years ago that was naturally aspirated (with a little juice) that I drove to the track and ran low 10's all day long and I only had about $11K on mods over the additional stock engine. I drove the car home at the end of the night (after swapping tires) and did it again the next week. I did this for almost 3 years without much other than changing the oil and refilling the bottle. I would find it hard to believe an LS7 could take that kind of a beating with little to no maintenance and for just over $11K in mods over the stock car.

Maybe I am wrong but I see a lot of guys over on the vette forum having issue with the LS7 when the slam it hard on a strip or even abuse it regularly on a course without lots of preventative maintenance.

...Fun topic/comparison....(I gave up trying to do my own tune-ups and mods when they went with electronic ignitions and started doing smog checks...lol...)

...Sort of a lot of terminology similarities and ironys....the LS7 is a 427, but not a big block...ZL-1 was an aluminum big block, but for the drags only, not road racing....First z/28s had 305 cast iron small blocks for track and weight purposes....The LS7 is an aluminum block for the road-coarse, not drag races for the new Z/28...lol....all good...
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:56 PM   #67
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Personally I see no reason why we couldn't make the Z28 just as powerful as some of C6Z06's that we build.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:17 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
10) You like the look of the car
9) You like the capabilities of the car...HPDE = HEHEHE!
8) You like the relative uniqueness of the car
7) You can afford one...or more...
6) You WANT one...or more...
5) You like the fact it can be legally street-driven, and insured for such
4) You still have room in your garage/basement/museum for one...or more...
3) "427 Camaro"...YUM!
2) "Carbon-Ceramic"...DUBBLE YUM!

And the NUMBER 1 REASON To Buy A Z/28:

1) Just to pi$$ off the fringe Doubting Thomases and Butt Hurtz on camaro5...
I like Number 3......................coincidence? I think not!
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:28 PM   #69
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Personally I see no reason why we couldn't make the Z28 just as powerful as some of C6Z06's that we build.
There's your answer.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:45 PM   #70
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If people are touting the Z28 as a HPDE or track day car, and not for any sanctioned racing at all, why spend 70K on it if all you want to do is go fast around a track and beat your own time? You can do it for a lot less money, with a lot lighter platform, with a much better suspension if you don't care about being within rules of any race organization.
I would like to know what car Dekl thinks is going to best it for under 70k?

thepill and all these pony car folks are pretty funny on that site.

This car is going to hammer the zo6 and likely anything it comes across. A "better suspension"...wink wink.

The good folks at NASA Northeast WILL find a place for it if you want to cage it and race it.

And no pill, I didn't move up to racing from hpde...I moved across to hpde from racing and I will run this on the street THOUSANDS of miles and track it hard and will feel very comfortable in it compared to my last 2 cars...keep up yer bitchin it's fun to read!!!

and the poster who said "inside info" over 70k will not post any link as expected but I think it will be higher when you see the ring time and the big bowl of crow many will be eating. I can only hope to get one.

why are there so many threads and excitement???...because some are happy and some are scared it is likely to set the bar very high for ford and srt.

"We have never built ANYTHING as mean as this!!!"...if this is a true quote from a GM engineer...well well well.
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:01 PM   #71
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...Fun topic/comparison....(I gave up trying to do my own tune-ups and mods when they went with electronic ignitions and started doing smog checks...lol...)

...Sort of a lot of terminology similarities and ironys....the LS7 is a 427, but not a big block...ZL-1 was an aluminum big block, but for the drags only, not road racing....First z/28s had 305 cast iron small blocks for track and weight purposes....The LS7 is an aluminum block for the road-coarse, not drag races for the new Z/28...lol....all good...
Actually, the ZL1 engine was an afterthought on the Camaro...it was developed for the Vette for road racing, and was a production (read: warrantable) version of the Can Am 430/494 program. Dick Harrell and Fred Gibb encouraged/assisted Vince Piggins to consider the ZL1 for a Camaro drag race-specific program. 50 required (by Chev AND NHRA), 50 ordered, initially.

The 1st Z/28s needed under-305" engines to qualify for Trans Am. The resulting 302 was a shelf item: 327 (or 350) 4" bore block with a 283-spec 3" stroke forged steel crank. Presto! 302"!!

The limitation for drag racing the LS7 Camaro is its non-ZL1 carrier...which, for those interested, is a shelf item swap.

The beauty of Chev's program abilities, even today, comes from myriad parts availability/swapability...and that all stems from a memo written in late-'53...by Zora Arkus Duntov.

The exhorbitant cost of the '69 COPO 9560 (aka ZL1) Camaros, and the likely high-cost of the '14-'15 Z/28 are DIRECTLY related: A car has to cover its development co$t$, no matter how much and no matter how few are built...there's no free ride from some other department's budget(s).
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:07 PM   #72
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I think reason # 3 can get repeated lol. 427 Camaro, I don't care who you are, or what brand you prefer, 427 Camaro just sounds awesome
Yeah, Baby!!!
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:08 PM   #73
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If you just want a track day car, an Ariel Atom is only $56,500 and will smoke damn near anything on the course.
that's a lot of money for a go-kart
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:26 PM   #74
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The Pill is a medically retired military veteran that I have become acquainted with off line over the last few years. He is smart guy and true enthusiast. His only real fault? He loves the wrong brand for most on Camaro5.

When a new production car is built, rarely does the manufacturer take into consideration what class it will run as determined by whatever sanctioning body. The new C7 delivers higher levels of performance than any other previous generation base model Vettes. When the higher performance versions are built sanctioning bodies will be scratching their heads to accommodate existing cars their members have built and the new cars. They will take a guess in year one and revise from there. If you want to race a Z/28 I am confident there will be classes to accommodate you.

BTW: If you think Washington is political you haven't been watching racing where they spend their OWN money.

The Z/28 will be what is is designed to be: an amazing version of the 5th Gen with the last of the normally aspirated fuel injected 427s under the hood. Anyone who doesn't understand what a 2014 Z/28 is won't be an owner. Z/28 owners are already lined up at Chevy stores across the country without knowing or caring what the MSRP will be. The next batch of owners are just like the first, but they have a maximum price in mind. Then there are the hopeful owners hoping the price will be less than many of us think it will be.

I could be wrong, but my guess is the number of Z/28s built will align closely with the number of owners, everyone of them thrilled.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:02 AM   #75
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I would like to know what car Dekl thinks is going to best it for under 70k?
Plenty of cars that you can modify under that price range to just throw around at HPDE events. All I was saying is, with all the money they are asking for it, other then the fact that people would buy it because it's a Z28, there are cheaper ways to dominate other cars at HPDE.
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