Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Gen5DIY
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-18-2013, 12:30 AM   #18
ZL1-V

 
ZL1-V's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarx82 View Post
I find it quite interesting that the brace seemingly does nothing. Anyone have any actual data to help back this up?

How about this thread?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298274
ZL1-V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 12:37 AM   #19
2010 SSRS



 
2010 SSRS's Avatar
 
Drives: 3 V8 Camaros
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Ocean State
Posts: 111,433
looks great
__________________
Jannetty Racing JRE Street Package
2010 SSRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 12:48 AM   #20
big dave
 
Drives: '13 BRM ZL1
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 543
Looks intimidating. I wonder what a setup like that would run? I, too, am curious what your trap speed was? What was your 60'?
__________________
'13 ZL1 BRM A6. 11.591 @ 119.2 factory stock! Best stock mph 121.8. 11.306 @ 121 RotoFab, drag radials and skinnies. 4340# raceweight.

http://youtu.be/yggIA3C_kkA 2014... back to stock

http://youtu.be/spQLaTWbThs 2013... stock & RotoFab



'94 Z28 A4. 13.64 @ 100.1 stock. 11.71 @ 117 h/c (sold)

'99 SS M6. 13.28 @ 105 stock. 12.02 @ 116.5 bolt-ons on street tires. Full weight. New combo 10.94 @ 126.9 n/a full weight on et streets. .http://youtu.be/BCJNFJrp2lg
big dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 05:35 AM   #21
Craig B
 
Craig B's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1LE
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 609
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace32x View Post
im sure it helps in the corners when really pushing the car but daily driving or strip use you would never notice a difference with the strut brace off
X2. For a drag car your can throw that thing and the front sway bar in the woods.
Craig B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 01:49 PM   #22
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarx82 View Post
I find it quite interesting that the brace seemingly does nothing. Anyone have any actual data to help back this up?
Wow, I cannot believe I'm even reading threads like this. This is like saying the front air ducts to the brakes do nothing to stopping distance. They do nothing until you push the car to its limits and if you do that the brake duct will raise the limitations of the braking system by increasing cooling. If you take the car to the racetrack (and I mean a road course not a drag strip) and see how fast you can possibly run the car through a corner I can guarantee you that the car will perform better with that strut tower brace increasing chassis rigidity. If you mount road race tires that increase the g-loads on the suspension way beyond stock, the brace will make a huge difference. GM knows this, that is why they put it on the car and frankly that is part of the reason why the ZL1 Camaro can run with the much lighter Boss Mustang. The underlined section in that fancy write-up says "no aftermarket brace" , this is not an aftermarket brace. It was built by GM because they were trying to improve the cornering in a specialty high performance car. If all you ever do is drive the car straight ahead or you never get close to the limitations of the tires in a corner then take the thing off. It is doing nothing for you. But just because you are not using the limitations of the car does not mean the performance parts are unnecessary.
__________________
ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air intercooler, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar, Hurst line lock, braided brake & clutch lines, Motul 660 and Porterfield R4 pads, racingbrake rotors. LPE nitrous controller. rwhp TBD...
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 01:51 PM   #23
ModBargains.com
 
ModBargains.com's Avatar
 
Drives: Widebody 2013 Mustang GT
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 1721 E. Lambert Rd. Unit C, La Habra, Ca 90631
Posts: 2,848
I'd love to see videos of it in action if you have any!! Sweet set up! I loved my old KB twin screw!
ModBargains.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 04:14 PM   #24
ZL1-V

 
ZL1-V's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
Wow, I cannot believe I'm even reading threads like this. This is like saying the front air ducts to the brakes do nothing to stopping distance. They do nothing until you push the car to its limits and if you do that the brake duct will raise the limitations of the braking system by increasing cooling. If you take the car to the racetrack (and I mean a road course not a drag strip) and see how fast you can possibly run the car through a corner I can guarantee you that the car will perform better with that strut tower brace increasing chassis rigidity. If you mount road race tires that increase the g-loads on the suspension way beyond stock, the brace will make a huge difference. GM knows this, that is why they put it on the car and frankly that is part of the reason why the ZL1 Camaro can run with the much lighter Boss Mustang. The underlined section in that fancy write-up says "no aftermarket brace" , this is not an aftermarket brace. It was built by GM because they were trying to improve the cornering in a specialty high performance car. If all you ever do is drive the car straight ahead or you never get close to the limitations of the tires in a corner then take the thing off. It is doing nothing for you. But just because you are not using the limitations of the car does not mean the performance parts are unnecessary.

I agree that one has to "push their car" especially "on a road course" to understand the limits of it. Most of never will attain that level. The increase in roll stiffness comes from lower and stiffer springs and sway bars. I ran my 1996 Saleen Mustang Cobra with Griggs suspension with and without the cross brace bar and I'll leave it at that. That car was run on the track and in the Angeles National Forest here in So Cal. The Gen5 cars of today are much stiffer constructed vehicles than the older cars. It doesn't matter if it's an aftermarket or factory cross brace. They both are designed the same and fit in the factory mounts. It appears as if you're trying to use the "wording" to benefit your theory. Just to clarify you are stating for a fact that "Pete" from Pedders who deals with this stuff daily and has lap times to prove it is lying? I'm sure he'll love to hear that?
ZL1-V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 06:33 PM   #25
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZL1-V View Post
I agree that one has to "push their car" especially "on a road course" to understand the limits of it. Most of never will attain that level. The increase in roll stiffness comes from lower and stiffer springs and sway bars. I ran my 1996 Saleen Mustang Cobra with Griggs suspension with and without the cross brace bar and I'll leave it at that. That car was run on the track and in the Angeles National Forest here in So Cal. The Gen5 cars of today are much stiffer constructed vehicles than the older cars. It doesn't matter if it's an aftermarket or factory cross brace. They both are designed the same and fit in the factory mounts. It appears as if you're trying to use the "wording" to benefit your theory. Just to clarify you are stating for a fact that "Pete" from Pedders who deals with this stuff daily and has lap times to prove it is lying? I'm sure he'll love to hear that?
I don't know "Pete" from Peddlers at all and I have no idea what he said. If he said a strut tower brace "does not do anything" I guess I will say he is lying. I know it makes a car chassis stiffer by closing the top half of what would be a "u" shaped structure. I know cars continue to get stiffer and stiffer chassis. That is part of the reason why a lightweight Camaro still weighs 4000+ pounds. But adding that strut brace stiffens the structure just like adding a roof over the convertible. Does Pete say the roof does not do anything? I'm really not trying to get in a fight here. I have driven many cars with various levels of chassis stability and that brace is going to stiffen up the car under heavy corning loads. If you are good you can drive a convertible fast on the track but a good driver almost always laps faster with the hardtop than the vert because the chassis is stiffer. That generally makes the car more predictable and easier to drive fast at the performance edge. That is what that brace does. If a machine can't measure it then I say you need a better machine because you can feel it. I will not be taking my brace off.
__________________
ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air intercooler, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar, Hurst line lock, braided brake & clutch lines, Motul 660 and Porterfield R4 pads, racingbrake rotors. LPE nitrous controller. rwhp TBD...
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 06:54 PM   #26
Dznts
Anabolic Connoisseur
 
Dznts's Avatar
 
Drives: Blown Camaro 2SS/RS LS3-2007 Tahoe
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 21,971
Very nice!
__________________
Dznts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 07:18 PM   #27
Trackman

 
Trackman's Avatar
 
Drives: 67RS Camaro ,Black 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
I don't know "Pete" from Peddlers at all and I have no idea what he said. If he said a strut tower brace "does not do anything" I guess I will say he is lying. I know it makes a car chassis stiffer by closing the top half of what would be a "u" shaped structure. I know cars continue to get stiffer and stiffer chassis. That is part of the reason why a lightweight Camaro still weighs 4000+ pounds. But adding that strut brace stiffens the structure just like adding a roof over the convertible. Does Pete say the roof does not do anything? I'm really not trying to get in a fight here. I have driven many cars with various levels of chassis stability and that brace is going to stiffen up the car under heavy corning loads. If you are good you can drive a convertible fast on the track but a good driver almost always laps faster with the hardtop than the vert because the chassis is stiffer. That generally makes the car more predictable and easier to drive fast at the performance edge. That is what that brace does. If a machine can't measure it then I say you need a better machine because you can feel it. I will not be taking my brace off.
If your love is road courses I do no think a Kenny Bell is the ticket. Drags they can probably made to work well.
....You may want to research who Pete is.
Trackman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:17 PM   #28
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post
If your love is road courses I do no think a Kenny Bell is the ticket. Drags they can probably made to work well.
....You may want to research who Pete is.
My love is definitely road courses. To be honest nobody on a small budget runs forced induction at road courses because it is so hard to deal with the heat. Kenny Bell seems to be a little worse so not a consideration for me. I also like top speed runs and would love to do Bonneville. The silver state thing looks fun if you could qualify in a faster class than entry level. I tried to google Pete at Peddlers and got mostly stuff about bicycle racing.....lol. Any more hints if I should know who he is?
__________________
ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air intercooler, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar, Hurst line lock, braided brake & clutch lines, Motul 660 and Porterfield R4 pads, racingbrake rotors. LPE nitrous controller. rwhp TBD...
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:25 PM   #29
mlee
Charter Circle Member
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: Number Twenty-Three
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 27,210
WoW!!!!
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:54 PM   #30
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
WoW!!!!
Lol... Peter Basica and the company is Pedders with no "L". If he wants to take the brace off that is okay, I'm still going to leave mine on.
__________________
ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air intercooler, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar, Hurst line lock, braided brake & clutch lines, Motul 660 and Porterfield R4 pads, racingbrake rotors. LPE nitrous controller. rwhp TBD...
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 07:17 AM   #31
Jeff65SS
 
Jeff65SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 1965 Chevelle Malibu SS
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
My love is definitely road courses. To be honest nobody on a small budget runs forced induction at road courses because it is so hard to deal with the heat. Kenny Bell seems to be a little worse so not a consideration for me. I also like top speed runs and would love to do Bonneville. The silver state thing looks fun if you could qualify in a faster class than entry level. I tried to google Pete at Peddlers and got mostly stuff about bicycle racing.....lol. Any more hints if I should know who he is?
It is Pedders.... not peddlers.

http://www.peddersusa.com/
Jeff65SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 01:02 PM   #32
ZL1-V

 
ZL1-V's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
I don't know "Pete" from Peddlers at all and I have no idea what he said. If he said a strut tower brace "does not do anything" I guess I will say he is lying. I know it makes a car chassis stiffer by closing the top half of what would be a "u" shaped structure. I know cars continue to get stiffer and stiffer chassis. That is part of the reason why a lightweight Camaro still weighs 4000+ pounds. But adding that strut brace stiffens the structure just like adding a roof over the convertible. Does Pete say the roof does not do anything? I'm really not trying to get in a fight here. I have driven many cars with various levels of chassis stability and that brace is going to stiffen up the car under heavy corning loads. If you are good you can drive a convertible fast on the track but a good driver almost always laps faster with the hardtop than the vert because the chassis is stiffer. That generally makes the car more predictable and easier to drive fast at the performance edge. That is what that brace does. If a machine can't measure it then I say you need a better machine because you can feel it. I will not be taking my brace off.

You seem to be a bit lost on whom people that know suspension actually are? You also seem to be stuck on proving that the stock two point brace is in fact stiffening "the chassis". I stated before in the past the older generation cars needed the bracing more. Have you seen the photos of the Gen5 chassis cutaway and the crash test video that shows the stiffening of the front end area for safety? He actually does address the issue of a strut tower brace on convertibles. The convertibles also have bracing underneath for added support since there is no "B pillar" for rigidity. You aren't the only ZL1 owner that tracks their car. I did this crap in the 1990's where were you then? I would think you'd be open to learn something instead of quoting what you've read in an article? It seems you pulled together a bunch of articles in your mind to form this stubborn stance. Next time at the track run your car with and without the strut tower brace and compare times. Too stiff a front end and you'll float a front wheel through the corners on tight courses. Just for documentation here's a shot of a real Camaro race car with a true strut tower brace. Notice it ties into the firewall to add the third point for rigidity. That is a "Strut Tower Brace!

ZL1-V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 01:34 PM   #33
jessrayo
Speed Freak
 
jessrayo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZL1-V View Post
You seem to be a bit lost on whom people that know suspension actually are? You also seem to be stuck on the brace stiffening "the chassis". I stated before in the past the older generation cars needed the bracing more. Have you seen the photos of the Gen5 chassis cutaway and the crash test video that shows the stiffening of the front end area for safety? He actually does address the issue of a strut tower brace on convertibles. The convertibles also have bracing underneath for added support since there is no "B pillar" for rigidity. You aren't the only ZL1 owner that tracks their car. I would think you'd be open to learn something instead of quoting what you've read in an article? Next time at the track run your car with and without the strut tower brace and compare times. Too stiff a front end and you'll float a front wheel through the corners on tight courses.Just for documentation here's a shot of a real Camaro race car with a true strut tower brace. Notice it ties into the firewall to add the third point for rigidity.
I'm brand new to the Camaro. Until about 3 weeks ago I never owned one or looked at them much. Thanks for bringing Pete's name to my attention. There are thousands of people around the globe that make their living as "suspension experts". I must admit that from the little bit of research I have done it looks like Pedder's products have some success to back them up. If I had the opportunity I would love to talk to him for a while and find out what he has tried on the ZL1. Not a lot of ZL1 specific parts for sale on their web-site. Talking to someone that has first hand experience sure beats trial and error. Cars are a hobby for me now but I like speed. I am always open to learning new things but I'm also pretty strong willed on voicing what I know to be true by personal experience. Chassis rigidity = good, Chassis flex = bad. From what I have read so far the suspension bushings are giving a lot more flex than the chassis. The little bit I have driven this Camaro, I really like the Chassis, I can believe that the hardtop strut tower brace is not doing much even at crazy corning loads... The car feels really solid. I may be kind of old school but I would try that 3 point brace long before I would just take the stock one off. Anyway, I'm not here to offend anyone, I actually am trying to learn what I can about this new car and this forum has been very helpful. Thanks for calling me out.... I've learned some good stuff just on this thread.
__________________
ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. LSA blower, twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, ADM trunk intercooler reservoir & EMP pump, Ron Davis S/C heat ex, and radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air intercooler, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar, Hurst line lock, braided brake & clutch lines, Motul 660 and Porterfield R4 pads, racingbrake rotors. LPE nitrous controller. rwhp TBD...

Last edited by jessrayo; 07-19-2013 at 01:51 PM.
jessrayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 01:37 PM   #34
ZL1RHINO
 
Drives: 2013 black on black
Join Date: May 2013
Location: West Columbia,Texas
Posts: 122
SERVED!!!
ZL1RHINO is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.