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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 08-06-2013, 08:28 AM   #101
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Why is GM stupid? Because they didn't keep building a watered down Z28 so more people could buy it? They have other models that more people could buy and would actually fit what they want if they understood what the Z/28 was.


look. you dont get it. i wanted a 427 camaro. i dont care what it is called.


this handling thing being the focus for a MUSCLECAR is all new. sure the 3rd and 4th gen handled world class for their time, but the focus for prospective owners was never taking it to a road course few would EVER see.

give it a cadillac ride and smoothness, backed with 427 cubic inches.


ford is hadly making any response to the z28. they dont care. never have.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:14 AM   #102
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look. you dont get it. i wanted a 427 camaro. i dont care what it is called.


this handling thing being the focus for a MUSCLECAR is all new. sure the 3rd and 4th gen handled world class for their time, but the focus for prospective owners was never taking it to a road course few would EVER see.

give it a cadillac ride and smoothness, backed with 427 cubic inches.


ford is hadly making any response to the z28. they dont care. never have.
If all you want is a 427 Camaro and don't care what it is called, don't care that it has world class handling because you will never take it to a road course, then just buy a 1SS and pay a performance shop to drop a 427 in it. You can get all that for under $50k. The Z/28 is not for you or people like you; it was never intended to be.

And yes Ford is making a response to the Z/28; so is Dodge. Sorry but those aren't going to be for you either.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:24 AM   #103
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look. you dont get it. i wanted a 427 camaro. i dont care what it is called.
You'll probably have to buy a Z/28, upgrade whatever parts you break, swap out the stuff you don't want, and add whatever features on a DIY basis. Otherwise, the ZL1 is really the Camaro for you.


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this handling thing being the focus for a MUSCLECAR is all new. sure the 3rd and 4th gen handled world class for their time, but the focus for prospective owners was never taking it to a road course few would EVER see.
New to many, probably. But it's finally a series-produced car from a U.S. domestic mfr for those who don't appreciate the lack of balance in both "muscle cars" and traditional sports roadsters and smallbore sports coupes. Cars that had good straightline performance were poor in the curves, and the cars that did well in the corners either had poorish acceleration or cost more than a house.

Don't forget that drag racing started at the grassroots level and was fairly well organized before the mfrs got involved. Road course running and autocrossing is no different (just that serious mfr interest there has been delayed by a few decades because those are less visible activities).


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give it a cadillac ride and smoothness, backed with 427 cubic inches.
Minus the 427 thing (which gets trumped by 6.2 supercharged liters), see CTS-V.


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ford is hadly making any response to the z28. they dont care. never have.
Ford is unlikely to until (unless?) they have something that can seriously challenge the Z/28. When you're late to the party, you'd best have the competition covered.


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Old 08-06-2013, 11:13 AM   #104
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look. you dont get it. i wanted a 427 camaro. i dont care what it is called.


this handling thing being the focus for a MUSCLECAR is all new. sure the 3rd and 4th gen handled world class for their time, but the focus for prospective owners was never taking it to a road course few would EVER see.

give it a cadillac ride and smoothness, backed with 427 cubic inches.


ford is hadly making any response to the z28. they dont care. never have.

You are definitely in the wrong part of the forum.

The first year of Camaro introduced the Z/28 a road course car not a muscle car. Ford introduced their Boss after that and then Dodge the Challenger. All were factory backed road course cars.

Doing my best Obi Wan "this is not the 427 you're looking for". You want the LSX.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:51 AM   #105
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this handling thing being the focus for a MUSCLECAR is all new. sure the 3rd and 4th gen handled world class for their time, but the focus for prospective owners was never taking it to a road course few would EVER see.
.
Pro Tour. G-machines. Hottest segment of street machines. For over a decade.

Good Guys shows giving up on drag races, replaced with autocrosses.

Cars that corner and stop as well as they accelerate. A "movement" that started with OEM rear anti-sway bars and disc brakes in the mid-60s.

Ford's announced departure (end '14) from heavily $upported Funny Car program. Apparently, "the force" isn't with them.

And, last but not least, a limited number of LS7s to work with. So, let's build a "COPO-like", high-capability, low volume (therefore NOT "mainstream-priced") ultimate capability cornering Camaro.

We were tipped off, two years ago, right here on camaro5. We just didn't know it, at the time.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:55 PM   #106
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look. you dont get it. i wanted a 427 camaro. i dont care what it is called.


this handling thing being the focus for a MUSCLECAR is all new. sure the 3rd and 4th gen handled world class for their time, but the focus for prospective owners was never taking it to a road course few would EVER see.

give it a cadillac ride and smoothness, backed with 427 cubic inches.


ford is hadly making any response to the z28. they dont care. never have.
How do I not get it when you clearly have no idea what the Z/28 is.

1) The Z/28 was built to run in Trans Am ROAD racing
2) The Camaro was a pony car, not a muscle car. Now that it weighs 2 tons, it doesn't fit the pony car class.
3) Buy an SS and drop in a 427.


I get it, you clearly don't. This is the Z/28 forum. If you don't like the Z/28, why post here?
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:28 PM   #107
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...shits gonna' break....despite of the best intentions, care, ignorance, or ability......ooooops, clean up in aisle seven...... The envelope can only be pushed so far, then the beefing up process must begin. It's a factory deal, the Challenger was a factory deal, needed modification, and was operated beyond it's parameters. So sad for us all.
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:03 PM   #108
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You are definitely in the wrong part of the forum.

The first year of Camaro introduced the Z/28 a road course car not a muscle car. Ford introduced their Boss after that and then Dodge the Challenger. All were factory backed road course cars.

Doing my best Obi Wan "this is not the 427 you're looking for". You want the LSX.

look i was there. i remember... and I know numbers matching Z28's. i know exactly what they are meant for. i also know the name was used and a 350 was put in them later. (why, i have no idea).


this is a fauxe Z28. you wanna talk historical. ok, let's...

z28 should be LIGHT, have a 5 liter engine with 400hp. no frills, no nav, no 427, no irs, none of this stuff the fauxe Z28 is gonna hve.

chevrolet built a 427 hammer to bludgeon a 5 liter BOSS. just, there is no boss anymore.

call it a 427 camaro, and call it quits.the new car is NOT a Z28....in the original iteration.


you bring up the original intent, not me. the 69 427 camaros were epic.


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How do I not get it when you clearly have no idea what the Z/28 is.

1) The Z/28 was built to run in Trans Am ROAD racing
2) The Camaro was a pony car, not a muscle car. Now that it weighs 2 tons, it doesn't fit the pony car class.
3) Buy an SS and drop in a 427.


I get it, you clearly don't. This is the Z/28 forum. If you don't like the Z/28, why post here?

so, if i have a different opinion that is not lock step , you have a problem? ive been on C5 long enough to remember all of the fanboishness when the SS was introduced.

i have a right to display disappointment in being left out. i wanted a DAG-blamed 427 factory camaro i can never get. yes im on the right forum to post an opinion about the 2014 Z28. all of my posts are relevant just not ones you personally like.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:28 PM   #109
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I'm totally new here and new to camaros but I believe the original z/28 was made just so they could run Trans Am? Trans Am is all road course period. I think the "intent" of the name holds true if it will indeed punish anything that shows up but a actual race series would help...I do not rule that out...lets wait and see.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:40 PM   #110
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look i was there. i remember... and I know numbers matching Z28's. i know exactly what they are meant for. i also know the name was used and a 350 was put in them later. (why, i have no idea).


this is a fauxe Z28. you wanna talk historical. ok, let's...

z28 should be LIGHT, have a 5 liter engine with 400hp. no frills, no nav, no 427, no irs, none of this stuff the fauxe Z28 is gonna hve.

chevrolet built a 427 hammer to bludgeon a 5 liter BOSS. just, there is no boss anymore.

call it a 427 camaro, and call it quits.the new car is NOT a Z28....in the original iteration.

you bring up the original intent, not me. the 69 427 camaros were epic.
Oh my! You may have been there, however time has warped your perception.
1. Original 1Gen Z/28's were NO lighter than other Camaros.
2. Original 1Gen Z/28's had engines sized for racing in the Trans Am series (as rules changed in the series engine size changed) the fact is the Z/28 required a higher-revving engine for road-racing just like the SB 427.
3. Original 1Gen Z/28's could be ordered with EVERY option, but AC and an automatic.
4. Original 1Gen Z/28's had superior (for its day) suspensions modified from a regular Camaro. Today's Z/28 has a superior suspension based on a regular Camaro.
5. Chevy already beat both Boss's with the 1LE - they didn't build the Z/28 to do it.
6. Yes the 1969 427 Camaro's were awesome, however the 2014 is on a much much higher level. BTW, Did you know in 1969 there was a ZL1-Z/28?

In closing the 2014 Z/28 is every bit a Z/28 in its original intent. A road-racing Camaro built with superior performance and handling capabilities.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:21 PM   #111
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Oh my! You may have been there, however time has warped your perception.
1. Original 1Gen Z/28's were NO lighter than other Camaros.
2. Original 1Gen Z/28's had engines sized for racing in the Trans Am series (as rules changed in the series engine size changed) the fact is the Z/28 required a higher-revving engine for road-racing just like the SB 427.
3. Original 1Gen Z/28's could be ordered with EVERY option, but AC and an automatic.
4. Original 1Gen Z/28's had superior (for its day) suspensions modified from a regular Camaro. Today's Z/28 has a superior suspension based on a regular Camaro.
5. Chevy already beat both Boss's with the 1LE - they didn't build the Z/28 to do it.
6. Yes the 1969 427 Camaro's were awesome, however the 2014 is on a much much higher level. BTW, Did you know in 1969 there was a ZL1-Z/28?

In closing the 2014 Z/28 is every bit a Z/28 in its original intent. A road-racing Camaro built with superior performance and handling capabilities.
"3. Original 1Gen Z/28's could be ordered with EVERY option, but AC and an automatic."

And no convertible.

"BTW, Did you know in 1969 there was a ZL1-Z/28?"

I've never seen nor heard of this one, I'd like more info on it.

I agree completely with everything else you said!
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:27 PM   #112
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"3. Original 1Gen Z/28's could be ordered with EVERY option, but AC and an automatic."

And no convertible.

"BTW, Did you know in 1969 there was a ZL1-Z/28?"

I've never seen nor heard of this one, I'd like more info on it.

I agree completely with everything else you said!
I don't consider the vert' as an option. It was a ZL1 with all the Z/28 suspension goodies.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:39 PM   #113
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:51 PM   #114
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look i was there. i remember... and I know numbers matching Z28's. i know exactly what they are meant for. i also know the name was used and a 350 was put in them later. (why, i have no idea).


this is a fauxe Z28. you wanna talk historical. ok, let's...

z28 should be LIGHT, have a 5 liter engine with 400hp. no frills, no nav, no 427, no irs, none of this stuff the fauxe Z28 is gonna hve.

chevrolet built a 427 hammer to bludgeon a 5 liter BOSS. just, there is no boss anymore.

call it a 427 camaro, and call it quits.the new car is NOT a Z28....in the original iteration.

You do realize the 302 came about because of a displacement cap, not because it was the ultimate racing engine, right? The displacement cap moved up, which is why the 70's went to a 350.

you bring up the original intent, not me. the 69 427 camaros were epic.





so, if i have a different opinion that is not lock step , you have a problem? ive been on C5 long enough to remember all of the fanboishness when the SS was introduced.

i have a right to display disappointment in being left out. i wanted a DAG-blamed 427 factory camaro i can never get. yes im on the right forum to post an opinion about the 2014 Z28. all of my posts are relevant just not ones you personally like.
You said the Camaro was a muscle car that never was intended to handle and I disagreed.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:38 AM   #115
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look i was there. i remember... and I know numbers matching Z28's. i know exactly what they are meant for. i also know the name was used and a 350 was put in them later. (why, i have no idea).
SCCA relaxed the engine rule to permit 5.0L engines derived from production car engines of other displacements. IIRC, Pontiac even met the 5.0L limit with a really short stroke (2.8") version of their 400/428/455 engines (Google "Pontiac 303", which never existed as a production engine). So there actually is precedent for Trans-Am-legal engines being sourced from engines whose displacement numbers are associated with "big blocks".


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z28 should be LIGHT, have a 5 liter engine with 400hp. no frills, no nav, no 427, no irs, none of this stuff the fauxe Z28 is gonna have.
The fact that the 5th gen isn't light (and the 6th gen still won't be light enough) puts you in the position of needing more displacement. That you have a problem with the IRS leads me to suspect that you'd also be opposed to DOHC, so you'd still be into the over-5.0 displacement thing for at least a liter and a half - you need more than 6.2L just to get clear of the SS/1LE level. At least for the short run, you might as well use the 7.0 that you already do have.


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i have a right to display disappointment in being left out. i wanted a DAG-blamed 427 factory camaro i can never get. yes im on the right forum to post an opinion about the 2014 Z28. all of my posts are relevant just not ones you personally like.
Perhaps now you've had a glimpse of what it's like to be a corner-carving enthusiast, when the vast majority of emphasis on automotive performance is devoted to big power and straight line acceleration.

Don't expect a ton of sympathy now that the shoe is on a different foot.


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Old 08-08-2013, 09:42 AM   #116
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...i have a right to display disappointment in being left out. i wanted a DAG-blamed 427 factory camaro i can never get. yes im on the right forum to post an opinion about the 2014 Z28. all of my posts are relevant just not ones you personally like.
I don't understand why you're all bent out of shape and think you're a victim and acting like somehow you've been screwed over by GM. I'm guessing probably every Camaro owner on this thread has modified their car which is something pretty much every Camaro owner does. Guys add power in various ways including engine swaps all the time. It's no big deal. Since you already said you don't care what it's called, meaning the badge on the side is not an issue, why don't you just stop complaining and buy a 1SS or 2SS and get a 427 put in it?

There HAS to be good speed shops in Alabama that can do the swap. You could get all that done and still be under $50k which is the price point you said you wished the Z/28 was going to be at. Then you'd have your custom 427 Camaro.

You aren't being "left out" of the Z/28 experience because it wasn't and isn't intended to be what you want which is just a large displacement straight-line street car. The ZL1 is more like what you want but even then it's forced induction rather than a large cubic inch naturally aspirated engine. And it costs more than swapping a 427 into a 1 or 2SS.

Stop complaining and pretending that everybody has gotten exactly the Camaro they want from the factory; it's not that kind of car. It's a starting point for customization which is what EVERYBODY pretty much does with it. Change your attitude/view of it, get a car, modify it the way you want like everybody else does and join the fun. You're missing out on a great car experience and there's absolutely no good reason for it.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:52 AM   #117
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The concept Black ZL1 shown (2 created, potential COPO 9787 assigned but never factory-built) was Piggins' attempt to get more volume, but its likely $9,000 tag was the final killer.

COPO 9560 (ZL1 engine - 69 built) + COPO 9737 (Sports Car Conversion Pkg, created for Don Yenko but orderable by anyone) = the closest thing to a ZL1-Z/28. Exactly TWO of the 69 were ordered (#3 - Berger, #69 - Huebner). Z/28 15" Rally wheels/tires, suspension and 140 mph speedo were included. Curb Weight similar to Z/28.

http://www.camaros.org/9560list.shtml

Curiously, NO Black COPO 9560s were factory-assembled. Tuxedo Black was "restricted availability" before COPO 9560 "volume" production commenced and then discontinued after April 1st (no fooling).

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Old 08-08-2013, 10:59 AM   #118
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The concept Black ZL1 shown (2 created, potential COPO 9787 assigned but never factory-built) was Piggins' attempt to get more volume, but its likely $9,000 tag was the final killer.

COPO 9560 (ZL1 engine - 69 built) + COPO 9737 (Sports Car Conversion Pkg, created for Don Yenko but orderable by anyone) = the closest thing to a ZL1-Z/28. Exactly TWO of the 69 were ordered (#3 - Berger, #69 - Huebner). Z/28 15" Rally wheels/tires, suspension and 140 mph speedo were included. Curb Weight similar to Z/28.

http://www.camaros.org/9560list.shtml

Curiously, NO Black COPO 9560s were factory-assembled. Tuxedo Black was "restricted availability" before COPO 9560 "volume" production commenced and then discontinued after April 1st (no fooling).


The great thing is now the 2014 Z/28 has the best of the best components.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:10 AM   #119
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Loving the history lesson in this thread!
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:50 PM   #120
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:34 PM   #121
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..talk out loud, speak your mind, we are all good here.....
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Old 08-15-2013, 04:04 PM   #122
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Al Oppenheiser can sure walk around every question that was asked super well. I never seen someone dance so well since micheal jackson recorded his thriller video.
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:39 PM   #123
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Al Oppenheiser can sure walk around every question that was asked super well. I never seen someone dance so well since micheal jackson recorded his thriller video.
...spell check would help your cause somewhat....besides, you spew alot of vitriolic rhetoric for a ZL1 owner....things that make you go hmmmmmmm............
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:40 AM   #124
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...spell check would help your cause somewhat....besides, you spew alot of vitriolic rhetoric for a ZL1 owner....things that make you go hmmmmmmm............
What he said!
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:03 AM   #125
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...spell check would help your cause somewhat....besides, you spew alot of vitriolic rhetoric for a ZL1 owner....things that make you go hmmmmmmm............
KAT or CAT your right spell check would work if i used it..... You must be brainwashed by GM
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