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2013 Fest Discussions (IV) Fest VI discussions.

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Old 08-05-2013, 04:52 PM   #51
mlee
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Originally Posted by lewylew View Post
Not to beat a dead horse, but they did not qualify. If they had they would not have ran against the 2 fastest non-shop cars.
Incorrect LMR skipped rd1 and then blew the tires up in the 2nd qualifying run for a 37 and bottom of the ladder position.

IPS broke an axle and finished with a 27. 2nd slowest.

Yes this totally screwed things up and is part of the overall frustration but this is drag racing and it is what it is. I can't fix that. Just like the IPS car jumping the beams and getting a DQ. That totally sucked for a lot of us pulling for Terri.


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Old 08-05-2013, 05:13 PM   #52
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Just a thought, but why not make a class for strictly shop cars next year?
Let the big boys showcase what they can do, without running against their customers/potential customers.
I guarantee more harm than good was done to the two shops in terms of customer relations.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:18 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by mlee View Post

Incorrect LMR skipped rd1 and then blew the tires up in the 2nd qualifying run for a 37 and bottom of the ladder position.

IPS broke an axle and finished with a 27. 2nd slowest.

Yes this totally screwed things up and is part of the overall frustration but this is drag racing and it is what it is. I can't fix that. Just like the IPS car jumping the beams and getting a DQ. That totally sucked for a lot of us pulling for Terri.


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Everyone including me never seen those cars in the lanes for qualifying on rd1 or rd2 of the unlimited class, there were only 10 cars and all of us would have noticed either one of those cars in qualifying. When you’re in qualifications you kind eye your competition. I would have been ok with all this if they had both qualified properly like everyone else, then they would have run first round eliminations with slower cars and would have given a small chance for others to make to finals, especially if they ended up running each other during eliminations. But still know they should not belong in that class, but like I said, I would not have complained much about the cars, if they were qualified properly. Perhaps the car may have qualified during the shop class runs? Can others confirm they did not see those cars in our little line up of 10 cars in qualifying? I know I never seen them until eliminations. I also seen them the day before, so I had seen the cars, just no sign of them in qualifying, and if they did not qualify when they were supposed to, they should not be allowed to come in not being qualified. It was also known how fast they were already from the making previous runs the day before. The breaks and red lights, and line ups and break outs, etc, your right that just racing, but this issue was not, IMOP.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:20 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by YLWJKT View Post
Just a thought, but why not make a class for strictly shop cars next year?
Let the big boys showcase what they can do, without running against their customers/potential customers.
I guarantee more harm than good was done to the two shops in terms of customer relations.
We did run a shop car class, which was created last year for just this reason. The two cars in question were personally owned and funded, have full interiors, are street registered and licensed.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by mlee View Post
They absolutely qualified. The system won't put them in the ladder without it.


Not to beat a dead horse, but they did not qualify. If they had they would not have ran against the 2 fastest non-shop cars.
You are right and that is why they had to add them in the ladder later, because the system does not add what isn't there in qualifying. That why LUCAS guy said he had no number in the ladder and we had to wait for them to make a new one. The first ladder had me as 1st qualifier making a by run, becuase they were not on it, and five minutes later they show up and ladder gets completely rewritten.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:24 PM   #56
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IDK about the qualifying part since I refuse to go for this very reason about lack of tech and lack of rules enforcement.

If the rules were enforced from the very beginning there would be no ambiguity.

Now there is this mess.

Don't sit on this topic while it still has focus. Make the communication CLEAR and CONSISTANT if rules are to be enforced. Establish a dedicated section/sticky whatever.

The representatives/mods and even sponsors of C5 owe to its community to be responsible in taking its best efforts to enforce, educate and maintain a safe event environment. This is especially a concern and potential liability when sponsoring.

When you really think about it, the hard part is already done. The rules are already written.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:31 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by MudderFinger View Post
You are right and that is why they had to add them in the ladder later, because the system does not add what isn't there in qualifying. That why LUCAS guy said he had no number in the ladder and we had to wait for them to make a new one. The first ladder had me as 1st qualifier making a by run, becuase they were not on it, and five minutes later they show up and ladder gets completely rewritten.
That was a tech issue not a qualifying issue. I've already said that tech didn't go well. The IPS car was late to tech but made the pass, probably why you didn't see it in the lanes. We also waited on the LMR car to arrive because the driver was also driving in the shop car class. Your helmet was on and ready to race by that time so probably why you saw neither in the lanes.

LMR purposely didn't make a rd1 run and I can't believe you didn't see the parts all over the track as IPS made their 27 second run.

I've said my piece here and discussed this in detail with you at the track. Now on to improving for next year.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #58
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They absolutely qualified. The system won't put them in the ladder without it.

I told the guy to not ask the question if he didn't want to hear the answer. Tech will be cleaned up next year. It's much easier to deal with someone pissed they can't run without a DS loop than guys quoting safety issues. I promise this will be a focus next year and hope you all will back me when the complains start. But it will be a good thing. Also a completely different track.

Unlimited class and faster will change next year. Rules for these classes remained the same as last year and the cars met the rules so easy to defend whether right or wrong. This is 100% on me an I will own it. I have more to add but still making the trek home. Tks for the constructive discussion.



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When there are safety issues as blatant as the lmr car they need to be addressed and brought to the higher ups attention. Not only is it not safe but if they cut corners there whats not to say they didn't cut corners somewhere else thus endangering the car they were racing. I wouldnt line up next to that car if I was getting paid.

The tech issue belongs to the track, not camaro 5. You rely on them to make sure they are doing their job.

Letting shop cars in with personal cars is a camaro 5 topic. When you have drivers and 6 people bringing the car up to the lights is a bit over the top for the unlimited class. If you need that much help staging that you have a shop car.

Darth Emma's car had no tech issues. How could it. It's a work of art. That was prob the safest, most well built car present. It just broke done parts and the driver made a mistake. That's racing and that's why I would have no problem lining up against it.

Lets face it, the unlimited class was a huge cluster f#*k. Lack of communication was the main culprit. Now we all know what needs to be worked on for the upcoming fests.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:48 PM   #59
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We did run a shop car class, which was created last year for just this reason. The two cars in question were personally owned and funded, have full interiors, are street registered and licensed.
The lmr was not legal to run on an nhra sanctioned track. End of story. Should have failed tech. Not sure how it got through. Ray Charles would have failed it.


Darth Emma's car..... We know what her car is about. Technically it isn't a shop car but its like an nba player playing against a 10 year old. If beating lesser opponents gives you your kicks, well then, you'll be playing alone very soon.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:56 PM   #60
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Ok guys, Full disclosure.

We've got nothing to hide.

Please hear me out. I promise I won't try and change anyone's mind. We've learned one thing after our 4th fest. We can't make everyone happy. So I won't embarrass myself trying.

But please allow us to reveal how some of our decisions were made.

We had a long tough conversation on Friday night... without giving you the blow by blow. We could only come up with one discriminator. who paid for and owns the car. I'm not saying it's right nor am I saying it's final. but at the last minute, we all agreed that was the best we could do... I do think however that we should have given more consideration to the "Pro Driver" mod....

We may need to include cars, not driven by the owners, go in the shop/sponsored class???

All I can offer up is we got blind sided by the IPS and LMR cars... they were clearly privateer cars but had a TON of shop support/crew... We should have considered this as well.

Tech.... I really don't think we can please every one on this.

But here are some simple truths... We don't run tech, the track does. And they know that they have to balance the fun with the safety. Firebird had NHRA inspectors there during our event and it made the drag racing no fun... Temperatures were also part of the problem but the very rigid tech made it difficult to have fun.

So, none of the Camaro5 Staff can really speak to what they did or didn't do... I'm sure it's hard for drag tech to look at a car like the ARH car and right behind it, tech a vert ZL1...

No excuses just trying to illustrate how we got to the situation we find ourselves in.

So, Please know that we did try to make a call, and we'll have to live with the back lash.

Feel free to blast away and tell us how awful we did. We will certainly consider it and run with it for next year.

Also,

For the faster classes we should have a formal drivers meeting where we can discuss, RESPECTFULLY discuss any last minute changes to the rules based on who shows up and why.

That way, we don't make our decision in a vacuum, and you all get some representation, and at the end of the day, we all have to live with the decision. Something for us to consider for next year.

In general, please know we have no bias for any car or member/vendor. The track and the mods did our best to make the vent appeal to as many people as possible and that usually means we will upset a few...

All I can say, is we're sorry that our decision wasn't completely thought through and in the heat of the moment and a few drinks into the evening we may have rushed to a decision.

We will certainly try and avoid that in the future.

As far as who qualified and who didn't. I personally watched the IPS car break the axle on Friday... but I didn't follow the days events as closely as some of you... FWIW.

Respectfully,

Chris

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Here's my camaro fest 4 experience:
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Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
I had a great time.. I kinda think putting Darth Erma and the LMR CARS, BOTH obviously shop built and maintained car in unlimited class was bullsxxt but other than that good all around experience. Ruined a good heads up zl1/blower ss class imop..
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Originally Posted by lewylew View Post
Overall had a great time.
To bad they ruined the unlimited class by putting 2 shop cars in it. Everyone one knows it was BS even the people at LUCAS. Any car with a billboard on the car obviously is a shop car. If it is your car you should drive it. The 2 of them should not have even been aloud to run being they did not qualify. They refused a guy in the modified class from running because he did not qualify. Then the way they lined them up with the 2 FASTEST UNLIMITED NON SHOP cars was also BS. Muddfinger and The Baron should have had a chance to win. That would have made for a great show. I totally lost interest when the IPS and LMR car were in this class.

OWNERS SHOULD DRIVE. I drove my car 9 hours and raced then drove home(no shop car here).

Something has to change.
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Originally Posted by SRT5939 View Post
A Vendors biggest mistake is to Race and compete with it's customers.
What a bad decision.
Hopefully the members know how to handle that choice a couple vendors made.
Hard to believe a member would go to that length to win a race that is supposed to be fun for all members.
Why did the folks in charge of the event allow this to happen? Is someone getting there pockets stuffed?
Is Speedster still involved in running this event? I'm sure he would not stand for this kind of behavior.
Hopefully it won't hurt next years attendance to much.
Good luck getting it resolved, hope next year things are done on a more fair and even playing field.
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Originally Posted by MudderFinger View Post

Yep, I had it until they added those 2 shop cars that did not belong in the class (LMR and IPS)that did not even participate in Qualifying. It screwed not only me but everyone that did participate in Qualifying.


You are completely right to be upset about this.
The biggest points of how wrong this was and how bad it ruined the race are:
1. Those cars did not belong in an amateur, trophy only class. If you have a full paid race team, advertisement all over the car and can’t even drive your own car and have to hire a professional driver to complete in an amateur class. That itself is pitifully wrong. And I hope they feel a real accomplishment with the $10 trophy they practically paid for.

2. Those cars did not even participate in Qualifying, and if they they would have, they would have been the fastest qualifiers. That would of adjusted the ladder In a position that would of had me as third place qualifier running against the 7th place qualifier instead of running against an almost 8 second car that did not even participate in qualifying. This affected not only me but The Barron got beat up over this too.

3. If they had qualified and the ladder was put together properly The Barron and I would have had a chance to make to either semi-finals or finals. There is also the chance that those two could not avoid running against each other, and would open a spot for a legitimate (street)car to make it to finals.

4. Politics have no place in drag racing in my opinion.

Other than the completely screwed up drag race which was bull, I had a great time during the event, but now wish I did not even participate in the drag race at all. I have never seen anyone get away with this at any other racing event. If you did not properly qualify you should not be allowed in the class.
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I completely agree with this. When they announced the winner, they called it a shop car and the entire shop went up to accept the trophy. They should have been in the shop car class.
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Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
Lets not forget that they called everyone to staging and the IPS car and the lmr car both stayed at the trailer for 30+ minutes cooling down while everyone was else was ready to go. The track announcer was going bullshit.

The lmr car shouldn't have been allowed on the track. Just a quick look showed countless tech problems:

1: It went 9.1 at 155. Had a 6 point cage and no chute.

2. Driver, not the owner, was racing in a t shirt.

3. No crotch belt.

4. Battery sitting on the floor of the passenger side. Just sitting there.
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Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
Yup. Me too. That dude should have just came and went. Tech was obviously quite lax. In the northeast they'll pull you for going fast with rubber valve stems. You need metal ones after a certain speed. Jeff looked the other way when I asked him about it. So if the track director could care less so will the rest of the staff.

This stuff needs to be cleared up before the next fest. They need to decide if its an actual event or an exhibition. Rules need to be in place and followed. It left a sour taste in everyone's mouth.
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There was no discussion about it. They just did it. The other unlimited cars had no choice.
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About the tech thing. At events like this a strict nhra tech cannot be followed,. A stock zl with a set of drs and a good tune would require a cage, and that kind of aggressive thinking will kill var count. That being said, a safety HAZZARD needs to be avoided.

these fun runs are based on a common sense approach to beingbsafe and still allowing for fun... my car was messed uup all weekend and onlybmade 1 decent pass, I still had a great time... next year a guy who is PART if the community should be present and in charge of the drag side, not just the autocross because texas is going yo bring some cars. .
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Originally Posted by SRT5939 View Post
Tech should be followed period, saftey first. It's all fun and games till someone ends up Dead!
There's no excuse for a car going 150mph plus without the proper safety equipment. Only a person with complete disregaurd for his own life would drive a car that fast and not be up to par or above it.

No professional driver I know is that stupid.
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Originally Posted by YLWJKT View Post
Just a thought, but why not make a class for strictly shop cars next year?
Let the big boys showcase what they can do, without running against their customers/potential customers.
I guarantee more harm than good was done to the two shops in terms of customer relations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
We did run a shop car class, which was created last year for just this reason. The two cars in question were personally owned and funded, have full interiors, are street registered and licensed.
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Originally Posted by MudderFinger View Post
You are right and that is why they had to add them in the ladder later, because the system does not add what isn't there in qualifying. That why LUCAS guy said he had no number in the ladder and we had to wait for them to make a new one. The first ladder had me as 1st qualifier making a by run, becuase they were not on it, and five minutes later they show up and ladder gets completely rewritten.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:01 PM   #61
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Shit happens. All that we can do is learn from it. I'm just glad to hear that you guys did see some possible issues and discussed it. Like you said, you'll never please everyone.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:08 PM   #62
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The rules of the class we were in (unlimited) said "privately owned," "street registered," and "any driver" in the qualifications for the class. My car is owned by me. The work on my car was totally paid for by me. I was intensively involved in all aspects of the build. The car is street registered.

I even asked the guys running the event which class we should run in and they said "unlimited." We were doing what we were told to do.

And FYI, we did qualify in the last qualifying round. Then, we had a red light in the first round of the finals due to a mechanical failure, so we were out of it at that point.

We did not play politics. We followed the rules. We didn't take anything away from anybody.

Congratulations to those who won their classes.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:21 PM   #63
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The rules of the class we were in (unlimited) said "privately owned," "street registered," and "any driver" in the qualifications for the class. My car is owned by me. The work on my car was totally paid for by me. I was intensively involved in all aspects of the build. The car is street registered.

I even asked the guys running the event which class we should run in and they said "unlimited." We were doing what we were told to do.

And FYI, we did qualify in the last qualifying round. Then, we had a red light in the first round of the finals due to a mechanical failure, so we were out of it at that point.

We did not play politics. We followed the rules. We didn't take anything away from anybody.

Congratulations to those who won their classes.
You are 110% correct. You have the fastest, one of the best built cars in this community. Why wouldn't you want to race cars that are in the same league? I would think you'd get more satisfaction beating the Farks car than beating 750 rwhp cars.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:30 PM   #64
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All I have to add that hasn't been said before was that I entered to have fun and I did that. While I don't agree that all of the cars in the Unlimited class should have been there, I accept that as the rules that were in place when we started. I'm not a pro, I don't have a ton of money in my car, and I wasn't even on my DRs since they were sitting at home in the garage.

Somehow, I ended up with a 2nd Place finish in the class and felt lucky to have won it. Whether the LMR car should have been there or not, the driver was a class act. I was just impressed to be around you guys that really know your stuff and have impressive cars. I learned a lot and had fun at the same time. At the end of the day that is all that mattered to me. I look forward to seeing you all again next year.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:34 PM   #65
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I would think you'd get more satisfaction beating the Farks car than beating 750 rwhp cars.
Truth. I mean I wouldn't even bother lining up against her car, that's a waste of time. All in good fun only goes so far. Kind of glad I didn't go this year.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:36 PM   #66
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Bracket Racing would fix all of this
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:41 PM   #67
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Bracket Racing would fix all of this
The heads up racing is a bunch of fun. I wouldn't want that to go away. But it would be like me racing 12 second car. That's no fun for me. I would think others would think along those lines.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:47 PM   #68
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The heads up racing is a bunch of fun. I wouldn't want that to go away. But it would be like me racing 12 second car. That's no fun for me. I would think others would think along those lines.
I agree just need some tighter class and nhra rules
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:50 PM   #69
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I agree just need some tighter class and nhra rules
Yup. You hit the nail on the head. I think going forward there will be less and less problems.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:37 PM   #70
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All I have to add that hasn't been said before was that I entered to have fun and I did that. While I don't agree that all of the cars in the Unlimited class should have been there, I accept that as the rules that were in place when we started. I'm not a pro, I don't have a ton of money in my car, and I wasn't even on my DRs since they were sitting at home in the garage.

Somehow, I ended up with a 2nd Place finish in the class and felt lucky to have won it. Whether the LMR car should have been there or not, the driver was a class act. I was just impressed to be around you guys that really know your stuff and have impressive cars. I learned a lot and had fun at the same time. At the end of the day that is all that mattered to me. I look forward to seeing you all again next year.
Thanks very much. So very glad you had a good time.

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Yup. You hit the nail on the head. I think going forward there will be less and less problems.
Ultimately that is what we are trying to accomplish. We'll keep trying to get better and better. As long as you guys keep coming, we'll keep working on it.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:01 PM   #71
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Wait.. I been waiting and reading and I. Sorry, the excuses im hearing are bullsxxt..


erma, I get it, im friends with all the guys who built your car and I understand you own the car but can you honestly tell me you belonged in that class? You own THE WORLDS FASTEST FIFTH GEN and you were put in a class full of street driven cars whos fastest one is 2 FULL seconds slower.. and if the owner doesn't drive it, it doesn't need explanation. ..


the lmr car NEVER EVEN MADE A QUALIFYING RUN, so why did it get to race at all? And again, owner didnt drive it, car was a rolling banner with LMRS full put crew.. really going to put it in with a bunch of guys who DROVE there car to the track to race? I can honestly say with the exception of maybe one other car in the class I had the most radical car in the group, and my car should have NEVER been parked next to those cars..

guys like us dont get heads up opertunity ever, and because you didn't want competition you feel its ok to be put in a class clearly developed for cars like ours?

Im sorry I was getting over it but it seems like people are trying to justify this decision. ..

so I guess Mark Carlyles vette should run in the corvette version of this to huh? Hell no. And everybody knows it..

The heads up factor was really awesome. For the lack of better words, slow cars like mine dont get to go heads up racing, I tried to get a lsa class at ls fest but was told the event was to full, this type of racing is rare for us, dont eliminate it, just fix it..
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:04 PM   #72
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I was unable to attend this year but I no there were issues last year and sounds like they got addressed this year so I'm sure the same will happen next year. I'm glad we have people willing to take on the task of organizing this MASSIVE cluster of cars, and I'm glad I'm not one of them. I applaud the your efforts and hope you keep doing it and I'm sure it will get better each year.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:09 PM   #73
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Drives: 2014 C7 + 98 Camaro
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Location: Houston, Tx
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Wow, I am very surprised to read these comments. We drove all the way to Indy to help support the event and to put on a good show and help support our customers as well as other racers that needed our assistance. All we did was race the classes we were told to enter. We brought two cars that fit the rules for BOTH classes they entered. We have been a huge part of the growth of the 5th gen camaro and even were the first to get one to run 9s back in 2010. We build between 2-3 5th gens a week and we will continue to do so because we are the leader when it comes to the LSX platform. Even though we build a few more Corvettes than we do camaros, we still enjoy the satisfaction of receiving the phone call minutes after a customer has picked up his/her vehicle and test drove it for the first time with one of our performance packages.

I am not sure what you have against my customer except the fact you lost to him and then blew your engine up. I understand your frustrations, no one likes to leave a race with a broke car but there is no reason to take it out on someone else. My customer built this car for him and his son to enjoy. They have been driving this setup for over a year on the street. It is fully taged and inspected. Has FULL interior with ALL working accessories. In no way shape or form is this a race car or shop car when it gets over 100 miles put on it every week.
1. Car did make a qual pass. It spun the tires and only went a 37. For this reason is why we race on the track and not on paper or on a computer. (Anything can happen in racing) If my customer would have spun the tires against you and you beat him would you still be complaining?
2. Driver did wear full simpson gear. That pic was probably before his friend showed up with rest of his gear that was still in the Firebird he had just made a pass in.
3. Car has a full 5pt harness(INCLUDING CROTCH BELT) maybe you should have stuck your head in the car a little farther
4. The battery was secure in the passenger floor baord. The battery is used to give power the the Wideband Sensor that data records each run.

Now our Twin Turbo Firebird that won the shop car class is a race car/shop car. We won that class with a 7.1 @ over 200mph.

We will continue to support the 5th gen community and if someone had told my customer when we got there that his car did not fit the rules and he needed to run a different class there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he would have done so. He just loves to race, win or lose.

I look forward to seeing all of you in Houston next year. It sounds like Mike needs to add some index classes to make some of these other racers happy. No matter the rules. We will be there supporting ALL of our customers and anyone else that needs our assistance.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:10 PM   #74
GTAHVIT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
Wait.. I been waiting and reading and I. Sorry, the excuses im hearing are bullsxxt..


erma, I get it, im friends with all the guys who built your car and I understand you own the car but can you honestly tell me you belonged in that class? You own THE WORLDS FASTEST FIFTH GEN and you were put in a class full of street driven cars whos fastest one is 2 FULL seconds slower.. and if the owner doesn't drive it, it doesn't need explanation. ..


the lmr car NEVER EVEN MADE A QUALIFYING RUN, so why did it get to race at all? And again, owner didnt drive it, car was a rolling banner with LMRS full put crew.. really going to put it in with a bunch of guys who DROVE there car to the track to race? I can honestly say with the exception of maybe one other car in the class I had the most radical car in the group, and my car should have NEVER been parked next to those cars..

guys like us dont get heads up opertunity ever, and because you didn't want competition you feel its ok to be put in a class clearly developed for cars like ours?

Im sorry I was getting over it but it seems like people are trying to justify this decision. ..

so I guess Mark Carlyles vette should run in the corvette version of this to huh? Hell no. And everybody knows it..

The heads up factor was really awesome. For the lack of better words, slow cars like mine dont get to go heads up racing, I tried to get a lsa class at ls fest but was told the event was to full, this type of racing is rare for us, dont eliminate it, just fix it..
Not justifying, Just explaining...

What you state in this post is exactly what we want to fix. We aren't an NHRA event. However we want you guys to get a heads up style experience and enjoy it...

This time we made a decision that missed that boat. We'll do our best not to let it happen again.

Now when we establish a breakout time or a HP constraint. or whatever we have to come up with to make it competitive... Please understand that there is no exact science for us amateur event organizers to follow... we'll be winging it then too...

in this case, the fact that the LMR and IPS cars were in the wrong class was our fault, not theirs.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:16 PM   #75
Late Model Racecraft
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post
Not justifying, Just explaining...

What you state in this post is exactly what we want to fix. We aren't an NHRA event. However we want you guys to get a heads up style experience and enjoy it...

This time we made a decision that missed that boat. We'll do our best not to let it happen again.

Now when we establish a breakout time or a HP constraint. or whatever we have to come up with to make it competitive... Please understand that there is no exact science for us amateur event organizers to follow... we'll be winging it then too...

in this case, the fact that the LMR and IPS cars were in the wrong class was our fault, not theirs.


You will never be able to make EVERYONE happy. Yall are just beginning and with that being said I think you all put on a great event. If you need any help trying to make more rules for different classes please do not hesitate to give me a call. I would be glad to give you some input.
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